Mobil1 VS. Castrol FMX Magnatec
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  1. #1
    Tadpole Chaton Noir's Avatar
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    Icon5 Mobile1 VS. Castrol FMX Magnatech


    I have 1998 306 XSI Pug.
    I'm planing to get big 60,000km service and thinking about changing the Engine Oil.
    I went out and did some research on engine oils (since I have no knowledge about engine oil, whatsoever.) and it seems that people love Mobile1.
    But when I went to service department, they said If I change to Mobile1 or any other full synthetic oil, it will desolve into rings and oil level will drop quicker than FMX. So, they don't like Mobile1, I assumed.
    So, I was wondering what other pug owners think about this dilema.
    Should I change to Mobile1 (expensive but better quality???) or stick to Castrol FMX (decent price and quality???).

    Also, service department mentioned that if I change to Mobile1, I can not go back to FMX. Is it true?

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    And while you think about this matter can anyone suggest a good car service place, tuning place and bodywork place in melbourne for 306 pug owners.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Welcome,

    Mobli1 (both semi-synth and fully synthetic) are great products. Track proven, years of research has gone into them and they will not damage your car. Keep in mind they do have carbon dissolving properties and on worn engines you may loose the compression when the carbon gets cleaned away. (seen it happen to neighbours car with huge kms when he though he could do something "nice" for the car... plumes of white smoke followed him within 1 week).

    Castrol FMX..... I could not find any reference to FMX on castrol website. Did you mean Magnatec? or VMX? If you mean Maganatec im not sure how you can compare those two oils. Apples and oranges....

    Either way for everyday driving correct viscosity oil is a must. If you go with quality product from Mobil, Castol, Shell, Amsoil, ELF, BP etc you wont go wrong.

    I'd suggest Mobil1 Semi-synth purely on quality of the product vs cost. If you want something a bit better go for the fully synthetic Mobil.
    If you use the car for racing applications there are MB's of data on web on what you should be using...

    over to you.
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  3. #3
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    Castrol FMX Magnatec is available wholesale only, in 200L drums. Major dealers have it...

    What kind of driving do you do?

    Paul Vassallo said to me it's a waste of time/money putting anything more expensive than say Penrite HPR10 (Semi synth) in the 2L 16v engine.... unless you want the benefits of not having to change the oil so often.

    If you use some of the Neo racing oils he now carries, you can go up to 25 000km between oil changes. Given than a 1998 XSi has a 10 000km service interval anyway, what's the point? That's where he was coming from...

    I'd stick with the Castrol FMX if that's what your dealer's been using.
    Mobil 1 for a GTi6 engine sure, but for an XSi which doesn't (can't) rev so high, it doesn't matter.

    Derek.

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    I have been using Mobil 1 for quite some time and have found it to have no adverse effects except for the hip pocket being lighter each oil change. I switched to Shell Helix Ultra and didnt notice any difference even though the vicosity rating is slightly different to Mobil 1 but it is quite a lot cheaper. I believe it has to do with the amount of anti wear additives in it compared to Mobil 1.
    Mobil 1 has been repackaged recently and it is called Mobil Super-Synth or something. In another forum (Porsche) it was recommended that Mobil Delvac ( a synthetic for diesel trucks) is everybit as good as M1 but much cheaper. Does anyone know how to get some of this Delvac stuff?
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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    I'd stick with the Castrol FMX if that's what your dealer's been using.
    Mobil 1 for a GTi6 engine sure, but for an XSi which doesn't (can't) rev so high, it doesn't matter.

    Derek.
    Derek , why did you say Mobil1 is only for higher end motors?

    The protection offered by Mobil1 Synth oil would be a bit better on most modern engines regardless of make or quality of components than the equivalent viscosity mineral based oil. Every engine will benefit from better oil. the question that remains is about cost.
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    Derek , why did you say Mobil1 is only for higher end motors?

    The protection offered by Mobil1 Synth oil would be a bit better on most modern engines regardless of make or quality of components than the equivalent viscosity mineral based oil. Every engine will benefit from better oil. the question that remains is about cost.
    do any of u guys actually have real oil pressure guages in you cars not the gay electric sender types. i change the oil in my gtvi every 5000 km, and have a plumbed autometer guage. mobil 1 full syn looses its vis over a short time. in hot weather its just too thin, my car idles low 500rpm, and in really hot weather i found myself manually holding the revs up at the lights to keep a nice oil presure up

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    I used to have a '69 MGB (I know, I know). While it was mine I used mobil 1 in it. I have no idea how old the engine was but it sure wasn't new and it sure wasn't built to as high a spec or tolerance as just about any 16v engine. I always had good, solid, oil pressure.

    The car didn't have a radiator fan of any description and on a few occaisions the engine temp ran to 95+ degrees (including one day at 90+ for about 3 hours at 70mph) and I never noticed any subsequent degredation in oil pressure.

    Finally, the MG certainly had a hydraulic/non-electric gauge because I had to change the sender pipe one day after it broke (but that's another, surprisingly short, story).

    However, I still changed the oil at 3000 mile intervals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    Derek , why did you say Mobil1 is only for higher end motors?

    The protection offered by Mobil1 Synth oil would be a bit better on most modern engines regardless of make or quality of components than the equivalent viscosity mineral based oil. Every engine will benefit from better oil. the question that remains is about cost.
    tekkie,

    Sorry, I didn't mean what I said in terms of higher end motors, I meant in terms of costs vs benefits. A 1998 306 *requires* 10 000km service intervals. Given you have to change it more often than a 2000 GTi6 like you had, I don't really see the point in spending more on oil, unless use requires better oil (such as track work etc etc). Sorry once again for the misunderstanding

    Derek

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas
    I used to have a '69 MGB (I know, I know). While it was mine I used mobil 1 in it. I have no idea how old the engine was but it sure wasn't new and it sure wasn't built to as high a spec or tolerance as just about any 16v engine. I always had good, solid, oil pressure.

    The car didn't have a radiator fan of any description and on a few occaisions the engine temp ran to 95+ degrees (including one day at 90+ for about 3 hours at 70mph) and I never noticed any subsequent degredation in oil pressure.

    Finally, the MG certainly had a hydraulic/non-electric gauge because I had to change the sender pipe one day after it broke (but that's another, surprisingly short, story).

    However, I still changed the oil at 3000 mile intervals.
    what do u call solid oil pressure, i know my girlfriends fathers crappy bently is good if it has 7psi at idle, i don't want anything under 20psi in my car on a hot day. my car holds this just with hpr15 (15/50), mobil 1 was good at first but by 3000km old and a hot day, pressure could drop to 10-15psi at idle, she still gets to 90psi at 8200rpm though

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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    tekkie,

    Sorry, I didn't mean what I said in terms of higher end motors, I meant in terms of costs vs benefits. A 1998 306 *requires* 10 000km service intervals. Given you have to change it more often than a 2000 GTi6 like you had, I don't really see the point in spending more on oil, unless use requires better oil (such as track work etc etc). Sorry once again for the misunderstanding

    Derek
    Derek, no need to apologise
    I thought thats what you meant just clearing ti up ,

    Pugly
    The idea of synth oils is its resistance to changes in viscosity. Than again there is Mobil1 and there is Mobil1. There are few different specs you can get and the 5W-50 isnt anywhere near as good as the 0W-40 in maintaining viscosity throughout the temp range. There is a huge difference in lubrication from cold, and even a larger difference in price.
    I am a tad surprised your oil viscosity changes in "hot weather" considering the oil temp is well in excess of 120degC I wouldnt imagine a change of 20 degree in ambient temperature would make any difference to oil pressure.
    I guess what I mean is Oils aint Oils *boom tish*

    there is an excellent thread on synth lubricants on performance forums.
    .
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  11. #11
    Member pugly's Avatar
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    Default get a guage, and live in mediterranin enviroment like adelaide

    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    Derek, no need to apologise
    I thought thats what you meant just clearing ti up ,

    Pugly
    The idea of synth oils is its resistance to changes in viscosity. Than again there is Mobil1 and there is Mobil1. There are few different specs you can get and the 5W-50 isnt anywhere near as good as the 0W-40 in maintaining viscosity throughout the temp range. There is a huge difference in lubrication from cold, and even a larger difference in price.
    I am a tad surprised your oil viscosity changes in "hot weather" considering the oil temp is well in excess of 120degC I wouldnt imagine a change of 20 degree in ambient temperature would make any difference to oil pressure.
    I guess what I mean is Oils aint Oils *boom tish*

    there is an excellent thread on synth lubricants on performance forums.
    as i do oil every 5000, and i do approx 100km a day, i have been able to try alot of full syn and semis, & they are all affected by between 5 and 10 psi in hot weather, new oils are thin. get a guage and see for your self (plumbed, not a sender)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!111

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    Don't get me wrong, but a lot of service companies are more interested in the bigger bills for the lesser amount of effort and too many are all too keen to follow 'pub talk' as gospel if they can use it to back up their arguments to do what they wwant rather than what you ask for.
    If he thinks your car will use more oil on Mobil one, that's not because it's synthetic or mineral but due to the SAE rating on the oil. Mobil one..say...5W-40 whilst Castrol possibly 15W-50.
    The oils used in any car has to be based on the condition of the car and its style of operation. I use 4 different types of oil in our various cars.
    Mobil one in my 16V, Havoline Premium 20W-50 in the CX (with a leaky oil seal on the camshaft bearing) Castrol Magnatec on a sons Lancer, lot of short trips as well as a regular 80 klms round trip, and alternating between Catrol Magnatec & Havoline Premium on a BX with an oil useage problem we're rectifying.
    16V engines in my opinion (and that of many motor engineers) is that they need plenty of thin oil flying around, particularly on start up to get through all the nooks & crannies as well as the hydraulic tappets. Thicker oil & longer times between changes will eventually kill them. We have just rebuilt a 16V engine that was so gunked up inside in places that oil galleys had to be drilled out, cleaned then plugged to get the oil to flow properly through them. After reassembly, it rattled like a sewing machine and this turned out to be lack of resistance due to wear internally in the hydraulic lifters. Once the crap was cleaned out, they simply rattled their heads off. Fortunately we do our own work but the mind boggles at the cost if we'd have paid someone to do it.
    I'd suggest referring to your service manual and following the manufacturers recomendations rather than being guided by a guy who has a 200 litre drum of Castrol and prefers to use it for several obvious reasons; more profit, less trouble.
    You can actually now buy in Australia the exact oils as recommended by PSA; Total/Elf/Gulf which is the way I will go on my BX from the next change onwards & regardless of what may be said, the oil regardless of cost, is the best insurance you'll ever get on your cars engine. I do Mobil One at 5000 - 8000 klms. The oil's OK but the crap in it by then leads much to be desired.
    Check this out on Oil information:

    http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/


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    Quote Originally Posted by pugly
    what do u call solid oil pressure, i know my girlfriends fathers crappy bently is good if it has 7psi at idle, i don't want anything under 20psi in my car on a hot day. my car holds this just with hpr15 (15/50), mobil 1 was good at first but by 3000km old and a hot day, pressure could drop to 10-15psi at idle, she still gets to 90psi at 8200rpm though
    I have no idea any more about the actual figures, sorry. If I had a picture of a gauge I could tell you. I do know some people with other MGs has problems with low pressure on Mobil 1. I don't know what "low" was. I've recently been told that the MG workshop I used to take my car to in Brisbane is now recommending Shell Helix Ultra. YMMV. (your mileage may vary)
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    XTC
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    See .. Oils aint Oils

    Seriously, used either Mobil1 or Penrite Synthetic 5. No noticable issues with either ... then again it's not a track car and changes always happen every 10,000kms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    See .. Oils aint Oils :)

    Seriously, used either Mobil1 or Penrite Synthetic 5. No noticable issues with either ... then again it's not a track car and changes always happen every 10,000kms.

    - XTC206 -
    Shell Helix Ultra and changes every 10k. I usually pick it up at Big W or SuperCheap for $40-$45 per 5 litres.

    I use it in Kermit (65k now) and our '80 X1/9 (60k), when the '47 TC is ready in Nov it will use it as well. I get a yearly service on the X1/9, even though the car has only down a couple of thousand ks.

    Prevention is better than cure.
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    nJm
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Shell Helix Ultra and changes every 10k. I usually pick it up at Big W or SuperCheap for $40-$45 per 5 litres.
    I had no idea it was so expensive. I usually use Mobil 20w50 XHP or whatever it is called in my 505. Costs $12 for 5 litres. I tried a Penzoil 15w50 semi-synth once and it caused a few problems, from leaks to increased blow-by (although my engine does have 276,000km). My mechanic put 25w60 in it to try and 'solve' those problems but that has meant it sounds pretty rough when it is cold. Still, I generally try to do the changes my self (time permitting), and do them every 5000km (a tad over 3000 miles).

    I guess in my mind I always wanted to give my old pug the best I could, and used to read the blurb on the back of all the semi-synth oils but I've found my engine needs a nice thick oil to continue on its merry way. I'd hate to think what would happen if I put the manual's recommended 10w40!
    Nick
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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    I had no idea it was so expensive. I usually use Mobil 20w50 XHP or whatever it is called in my 505. Costs $12 for 5 litres. I tried a Penzoil 15w50 semi-synth once and it caused a few problems, from leaks to increased blow-by (although my engine does have 276,000km). My mechanic put 25w60 in it to try and 'solve' those problems but that has meant it sounds pretty rough when it is cold. Still, I generally try to do the changes my self (time permitting), and do them every 5000km (a tad over 3000 miles).

    I guess in my mind I always wanted to give my old pug the best I could, and used to read the blurb on the back of all the semi-synth oils but I've found my engine needs a nice thick oil to continue on its merry way. I'd hate to think what would happen if I put the manual's recommended 10w40!
    Mobil 1 can cost as much as $70 for 5 litres!

    If a engine starts its life on a full synthetic then it can continue to use it until rebuild time. It isn't wise to place it in an engine that has been using mineral oil, unless it hasn't done much work. High mileage engines need specific oil to deal with the wear they have undergone using mineral oils; previously discussed in this thread.
    Cheers Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Mobil 1 can cost as much as $70 for 5 litres!

    If a engine starts its life on a full synthetic then it can continue to use it until rebuild time. It isn't wise to place it in an engine that has been using mineral oil, unless it hasn't done much work. High mileage engines need specific oil to deal with the wear they have undergone using mineral oils; previously discussed in this thread.
    Shell Helix Ultra is about $10 or more cheaper for 5 ltr than Mobil 1. Thats whay I've changed to Shell recently. When I got my S16 it had 90k on it and I changed to Mobil 1 when I got it serviced. The synthetic oil didnt give me any problems, in fact the car seemed to run better...no extra noises or smoke or anything. When I get the car serviced I supply a 5 ltr can of Shell Helix now.

    All the people I know swears by synthethic oil for great reduced wear characteristics. One guy has been using Mobil 1 in his FWD since day 1 and another in his turboed car for years and had great mileage from both engines
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    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    I had no idea it was so expensive. I usually use Mobil 20w50 XHP or whatever it is called in my 505. Costs $12 for 5 litres. I tried a Penzoil 15w50 semi-synth once and it caused a few problems, from leaks to increased blow-by (although my engine does have 276,000km). My mechanic put 25w60 in it to try and 'solve' those problems but that has meant it sounds pretty rough when it is cold. Still, I generally try to do the changes my self (time permitting), and do them every 5000km (a tad over 3000 miles).

    I guess in my mind I always wanted to give my old pug the best I could, and used to read the blurb on the back of all the semi-synth oils but I've found my engine needs a nice thick oil to continue on its merry way. I'd hate to think what would happen if I put the manual's recommended 10w40!
    Nick,

    Next oil change try Caltex Havoline Premium 20W/50
    It costs about $18.50 for 5 litres & I've found it to give spectacular results in engines with blow by & leaks. It also quietens rattly motors down.
    I stumbled on it by accident one night when we needed some oil in a hurry and all the SuperCheap/Autobarns were closed & picked it up at a local servo.
    We've been using it in two of our cars ever since and swear by it.

    Alan S
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  20. #20
    nJm
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    Thanks for the tip Alan. Will use it next time.
    Nick
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Mobil 1 can cost as much as $70 for 5 litres!
    At certain Merc dealers it's been known to cost $17 per litre !!! $$$$$$

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    Hi,

    I follow some simple rules concerning engine oils.

    1. Try to use a viscosity rating as close to the one recommended by the manufacturer for Austalian conditions.
    2. Change the oil and filter every 5000ks or three months.
    3. If your engine is newish a synthetic oil like the shell provides cost effective and high levels of protection especially in extreme heat conditions (high speed operation, hot weather, towing) and on cold start ups.
    4. Consider a synthetic/mineral mix for use in older cars or newer ones with high kays.
    5. Excellent oils like the Havoline do well especially in older cars.
    6. Buy cheap oil - you get a cheap result. The newer technology oils are great. This would include Castrol too and Penrite for eg.

    I've used mixed and pure synthetic oils for well over 10 years, in Pugs and others. The Shell is my favourite. It seems to last very well and our engines run very smoothly. In our 505 GTI and 604, resident oil leaks seemed to lessen in severity when we changed over to the synthetic mix.

    I also insert a bottle of 'Injectron' fuel cleaner into the fuel tank at every oil change and use PULP to take advantage of higher levels of detergent and extra kays per tank as opposed to ULP.

    I also fill up the tank after a long trip as the warmed fuel (via the return line) in the tank condenses on cooling and thus unwanted water levels are increased in the fuel system.

    A good time to buy or stock up on oils is when Kmart have their 15% or more off days.

    In summary you could probably reach a compromise with your repairer and use a syn mix.

    Cheers ...... Nick

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    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    The oils that Alan S can get are sensational. Of all the oils you are mentioning the Elf stuff that Alan can get for you is the business.

    As for me, I run Neo Racing Oil which costs me around $170 for 5L. I'd recommend that you get the Elf stuff off Alan rather than Neo, even though I get 20,000km change intervals from it.

    In the link that Tekkie posted the Elf stuff came out on top.

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    I use Motul.... 8100
    5W40 viscosity.....highly recommended for high revving cars....
    Made in France... top notch
    Retail for bout $$89...
    Ive bought the my last one from AutoBarn, set me back $$56...
    Jaime....

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    I use Mobil 1 fully synthetic because I get it for free, my cousin works for honda & they have a 10,000 litre tank of the stuff. i just give him an empty container & bam, free oils for me!

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