Which Pug should I buy?
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Which Pug should I buy?

    Hi all,

    My dearly loved 405 wagon has finally reached its end (piller between doors has cracked) and I am looking to replace it. I love the economy and the engine has done 370K and still runs like a treat. My wife thinks we need a car that won't take lots of my time (repairing).

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    So we are in the market. Our price range it somewhere between $4k to $8k. I'm after diesel for economy and like manuals (want to teach my kids to drive on a manual). It seems like there are a few 307's in that range and the occasional 308. I do have 3 teenage kids (they fit in the 405 ok).

    Of course, if my custom bull bar from the 405 fits a 406, then that would be tempting too, maybe less so for my wife who is after a newer car.

    Any advise?

    Any problems I should look for?

    Anything I should know?

    Thanks in anticipation.
    Jon

    .

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts
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    In my view, the 406 is better value than the 307. Given you want diesel and manual, you're better off with an HDI (D9), rather than an STDT (D8). I have two road registered 406s and find comfort and handling to be superb.
    The 307 is a delightful car to drive, however I'm hearing of unpleasant surprises when it comes to engine and other mechanical repairs (no different to other modern cars I suppose).
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'd suggest as a replacement poogoe ... a C5 wagon with AM6 gearbox and proper diesel engine. I've driven 307's and I reckon I'd look at Hi-undies before I'd look at them.... They probably ride and drive better for starters.

    a c5 is just a 407 that doesn't ride like an empty dump truck.

    edit:

    acually ... this one could be a winner:

    For Sale | 2006 Citroen C5 SX Hdi 2.0 litre turbo diesel 6 speed auto

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 2nd September 2014 at 05:03 PM.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  4. #4
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Oh no I'm becoming a 307 convert. I was the same, heard horror stories about 307's. I wanted a 406 but gave up looking for a good one. It had to be diesel, manual wagon. A T5 307 came along so I thought why not. That was about 11 months ago, it was on 210,000 and needed tyres and 1 tie rod for a RWC. Now its up to 289,000km and here is the list of faults so far. 1 left headlight globe, 1 left taillight globe. That's it.

    It's so damn reliable I refer to it as the appliance, whitegoods, like the fridge, always works, never think about it. Had it serviced 2 weeks ago, it was 11,000 overdue for an oil change and 35,000 overdue for a timing belt so I thought I'd better do it whether it needs it or not.

    One attraction to 307 is the easy availability of parts but it just doesn't need any.........touch wood.

    But if it Peugeot comfort you want then go for a 406
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Give me $10K and you can have my 2.0 HDI 407 wagon, we have had it close to 3 years, 100% reliable. Been such a great car. Its a 2007, auto, with all the kit, done 180k, last 2 services at Colliers. Rego till June, new tyres this year. Done 190K so its just been run in. Its white and we call her 'Chantel'

    Only selling to get a 2.7 V6 one!
    Current Stable
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    Previous Pugs
    1997 306 formula 2 kit car (Gravel Rally Car)
    87,88,89 and 1990 205 GTI
    2007 407 HDI
    1989 405 Mi 16
    1998 306 XSI
    1991 405 Mi16
    1996 306 S16

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Funny I thought I teach my two in a manual (one still on L's, other P for 4months) too scary! It must be the amount of traffic these days. I believe it's better for them to learn the road rules first, concentrate on the road & not the gears. Manual skills can come later.
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jongiger View Post
    So we are in the market. Our price range it somewhere between $4k to $8k. I'm after diesel for economy and like manuals (want to teach my kids to drive on a manual). It seems like there are a few 307's in that range and the occasional 308. I do have 3 teenage kids (they fit in the 405 ok).
    A 406 without the sunroof will be a little more roomy than the 405, with the 407 being bigger again than either.

    Learning to drive manual on a HDi engine will not translate well to a "normal" petrol engine, with deft clutch control its possible to pull away in 3rd at idle! I'll rarely add any accelerator when pulling away unless its a steep hill start.
    406 HDi

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypermiler View Post
    A 406 without the sunroof will be a little more roomy than the 405, with the 407 being bigger again than either.

    Learning to drive manual on a HDi engine will not translate well to a "normal" petrol engine, with deft clutch control its possible to pull away in 3rd at idle! I'll rarely add any accelerator when pulling away unless its a steep hill start.
    I think the 307 "feels" roomier inside than the 407... 'cos it's sort of tall (well the wagon is anyway). I guess this is so your head doesn't smack into the roof everytime you hit a bump. The 407 is hugely better than the 307, but still rough as guts, way to low. But at least it doesn't do the "pull hard to the left" all the time that some 307's like to do.

    The 407 sedan is physically quite big, it's nose and tail likes to smash into the ground given even the tiniest of obstacles (eg: a driveway). Inside is very squeezy for what is a big car. Headroom in the back is limited, my head is usually touching the roof in the front too....(and I'm only a little guy). I have to lower the seat as low as it'll go, and move it back. I try not to tilt it back though as my wife likes to "sit up straight" when driving.

    The diesel motor a 6spd manual are great. I'd love too throw the poogoe away and fit it's drivetrain to something decent like a Citroen CX .... My wife loves the poogoe though, so that'll never happen.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Thanks all for the advise, sorry I've been off line a little while so haven't got back here. I'm going to look at a 307 locally, so that I get a feel for what they're like, but I think the 406 might be a better option.

    Cheers
    Jon

  10. #10
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    I know of a near perfect 405 STi, 90000km only, $2000 with 12 months Vic reg. The car is in Ballarat.
    I am not interested in anything later than a 405, but having trouble justifying this as I have a perfectly good SRi as a spare car already!
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by jongiger View Post
    Thanks all for the advise, sorry I've been off line a little while so haven't got back here. I'm going to look at a 307 locally, so that I get a feel for what they're like, but I think the 406 might be a better option.

    Cheers
    Jon

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    90,000 k's ?? It's barely run in. I wonder if it's sat in the sun (if there anything like the BX they distingrate in the sun ... the plastic in 405/BX's is absolutely woeful).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  12. #12
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    Not the series 2, the plastic is excellent in this model, although from what I've heard this particular car has not been mistreated in any way.
    The series 2 8 valve 405 are a great car, better than the 406, torquey engine and much better steering plus a more compact but roomier body. Part of this is due to the use of the 205 style space saver rear suspension instead of the vertical coil set up in the 406.
    Graham


    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    90,000 k's ?? It's barely run in. I wonder if it's sat in the sun (if there anything like the BX they distingrate in the sun ... the plastic in 405/BX's is absolutely woeful).

    seeya,
    Shane L.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    Beware of auto gearbox in 406, and manual gearbox selector cables. Try finding a good one these days!

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Not the series 2, the plastic is excellent in this model, although from what I've heard this particular car has not been mistreated in any way.
    The series 2 8 valve 405 are a great car, better than the 406, torquey engine and much better steering plus a more compact but roomier body. Part of this is due to the use of the 205 style space saver rear suspension instead of the vertical coil set up in the 406.
    Graham
    You won't hear any arguments from me. The BX is more nimble than the Xantia too. Better more direct steerring, they weigh bugger all so are nippier with the similar drivetrain. not being a 16valver makes them extremely tough/reliable vehicles. So long as they have a proper manual gearbox. Most of those 4hp14's have been stuffed by putting Dexron III in them by well meaning mechanics.

    The 406's/Xantias are a way more modern car to drive though. Shame it's not a BX, the hatchback body is more usable than the 3box boot shape of the 405. They drive so similar there's nothing in it really from a drivers perspective. I'm not convinced the hydraulic version rides any better either(on the 16valve models anyway).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: The plastic in the Series II BX is better than the Series I too............ It is still absolutely woeful though. Most had turned to dust 10years ago.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 16th September 2014 at 10:34 AM.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts
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    If you want to look at the 407, look at the later ones.
    My recommendation is a 406 manual, I have a 3.0 litre SV and it's brilliant. Very light clutch and beautiful gearbox.
    As with all French cars, you've got to pick the right one, perhaps with only minor nightly bits to fix like internal led lights.
    A friend has a well looked after 2003 406 manual coupe, and he says it's the best car he's ever had, and like me he's had around 50 cars, including jags and other high cars.
    Handling is better in the 406, compared to the 407, I'm told. I do like the 407 sedan styling though.
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugnut1 View Post
    Handling is better in the 406, compared to the 407, I'm told. I do like the 407 sedan styling though.
    Very different cars, especially the HDi. It's almost like they have nothing in common.

    The 406 has moderate power to weight and enjoys lively spirited driving (within the limits of a front wheel drive transverse, much like a 405) with plenty of mid-high revs to keep the boost on. It will cut through mountain roads like no other sedan, and the multilink suspension has great feedback. Fuel consumption is exceptionally low if the aerodynamic package is still intact under the car.

    The 407 in comparison is much more relaxed and soft (almost disconnected) in a luxurious way, and it also has more poke while staying down in revs. The body is eerily stable and you don't notice the speed or curves! On the long highways it's a clear winner, but the unusual shape may not suit learner drivers. Fuel consumption is good for the size and power of the car.

    P.S. Love the 407 coupe styling

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Dijon16's Avatar
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    This is very interesting because I am thinking about a new car, and tossing up between a late 406, and a 407, possibly a diesel for the first time.

    The manual 406 SV is very economical, I got low 7 recently, and I guess that a heavier 407 V6, with auto, will use quite a bit more. All reviews bemoan the lack of rear headroom, and one reason to get a boofy sedan is to be able to carry 4 adults, 5 at a pinch.

    Any more comparisons between these 2 would be welcome.

    Chris

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    You won't hear any arguments from me. The BX is more nimble than the Xantia too. Better more direct steerring, they weigh bugger all so are nippier with the similar drivetrain. not being a 16valver makes them extremely tough/reliable vehicles. So long as they have a proper manual gearbox. Most of those 4hp14's have been stuffed by putting Dexron III in them by well meaning mechanics.

    The 406's/Xantias are a way more modern car to drive though. Shame it's not a BX, the hatchback body is more usable than the 3box boot shape of the 405. They drive so similar there's nothing in it really from a drivers perspective. I'm not convinced the hydraulic version rides any better either(on the 16valve models anyway).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: The plastic in the Series II BX is better than the Series I too............ It is still absolutely woeful though. Most had turned to dust 10years ago.
    Couldnt agree more
    Though the Xantia has a bigger rear door with reduced boot space
    The 406 is totally reliable whilst the Xantias are always breaking things

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