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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default dead AL4

    Family member has had their 2003 406 HDI auto pronounced dead. What should they do? Repair equals the value of the car. Does anyone have a spare? Anyone fitted a Chinese one that apparently are available? Anyone want a good second hand 406 including said dead auto? Eagerly awaiting advice.

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  2. #2
    JBN
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    What is the difference between your vahicle and a 2000 406 D9 16V automatic box?

    Have a look under Parts forum for Wrecking Still thread by Balki.

    John

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    They are notorious for stuffing up. One of our members (Frenchtranstech) has worked out why and sells re-machined parts for them. But it would still need to be removed, rebuilt and refitted.
    How about fitting a manual gearbox with flywheel & clutch ? Could be pricey though...

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    You'd be flat out getting anyone to take it off your hands with a stuffed auto for a decent price. If it's good car, probably worth getting another box for it.

  5. #5
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    The v6 had a ZF auto so not a match unfortunately.

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    The Chinese autoboxes are from memory mostly in petrol spec - different valve body.

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    Time to buy a wreck or sell it as a wreck. Try: http://www.peugeotwreckers.com.au
    Has anyone used them or can recommend another?
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    Time to buy a wreck or sell it as a wreck. Try: Peugeot Wreckers new, used & discount Peugeot car Parts
    Has anyone used them or can recommend another?
    Why not give your custom to a AF Forum Sponsor? ie French Connection

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Why not give your custom to a AF Forum Sponsor? ie French Connection
    Good idea!
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    How annoying is this problem? I'm currently looking for an auto for my daughter and this AL4 issue has single handedly made it so French cars may be out of contention. I'm gutted. Sorry for the thread hijack geedee.
    Jinandfonic likes this.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    A good idea indeed. Where are these sponsors listed? I have AL4 '07 C4. Specialist mechanics up here in Brissy have said PSA have improved these gearboxes over time yet recommend changing oil every major service ie when doing timing belt. Having the manual override helps with it's drivability. They seem to hold lower gears longer than necessary when coasting or de-accelerating which must cause undue stress. I tip it up a gear when that happens. On incline stops they can get confused & clunk into first too. They do that from new so nothing to be alarmed about. I would trust an AL4 over the VW 6 speed DSG any day.
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    These sponsors for example:

    dead AL4-sponsor-1.jpg

    dead AL4-sponsor-2.jpg

    Surely you have seen Dave Cav, French connection and his multiple ads for various vehicles?

    Plus the fact his user name "lights up" in bright blue in the Who's online list.

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    Funny you should say that; a VW Golf is the other I was thinking of and, for the same reason, have had to drop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    A good idea indeed. Where are these sponsors listed? I have AL4 '07 C4. Specialist mechanics up here in Brissy have said PSA have improved these gearboxes over time yet recommend changing oil every major service ie when doing timing belt. Having the manual override helps with it's drivability. They seem to hold lower gears longer than necessary when coasting or de-accelerating which must cause undue stress. I tip it up a gear when that happens. On incline stops they can get confused & clunk into first too. They do that from new so nothing to be alarmed about. I would trust an AL4 over the VW 6 speed DSG any day.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    I would trust an AL4 over the VW 6 speed DSG any day.
    The wet clutch 6 speed DSG is the reliable one. I think you'll find it's the dry clutch 7 speed that's had the problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    The wet clutch 6 speed DSG is the reliable one. I think you'll find it's the dry clutch 7 speed that's had the problems.
    And the main reason for that is:

    The 7 speed DSG is almost exclusively fitted of the Turbo + Super (TSI) charged engines. These are usually the high performance sport variants of the marque . (Polo GTI, Skoda Fabia RS, Seat) . Is it coincidence that the Audi A1 seems to have zero issues with the same DSG?

    Because of market niche and in conjunction with the aftermarket "launch" control software installed by many the they clutches get a real pasting.

    Just as any manual sports car wears out clutches when driven hard.

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    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The 7 speed DSG is almost exclusively fitted of the Turbo + Super (TSI) charged engines. These are usually the high performance sport variants of the marque.
    The 6 speed is the high performance version. The DSG in the Golf GTI, R and R32 and the Audi equivalents are all 6 speed - and no problems.

    The Turbo + Super charged engines to which the dry clutch 7 speed is fitted are the next rung down in power level, and they're the ones that have had problems. Time will tell if they are as bad as the legendary AL4!

    Common sense would say buy a Corolla (or a manual!)

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    The 6 speed is the high performance version. The DSG in the Golf GTI, R and R32 and the Audi equivalents are all 6 speed - and no problems.

    The Turbo + Super charged engines to which the dry clutch 7 speed is fitted are the next rung down in power level, and they're the ones that have had problems. Time will tell if they are as bad as the legendary AL4!

    Common sense would say buy a Corolla (or a manual!)
    Richard there is fundamental flaw in your logic.

    Sure the 6 speeds are fitted to the 1.6/1.8/ 2l motors. But there are in different platforms and heavier cars.

    The seven speeds are fitted to one engine only the 1.4 TSI . These engines are delivered in variety of power outputs, identical engines, different software.

    The cars to which the 1.4 TSI are also lighter smaller platforms than the golf/ Audi A3. Most are performance cars.

    So comparing the 7 speed to the 6 speeds is like comparing apples to oranges.

    So go ahead and believe what you hear in the press. But the UK Skoda, Polo, Seat forums have no reports of issues since around 2011 which was rectified by VAG under warranty. Also the VW Polo forums in OZ report very few problems.

    I've just bought a car with 7 speed DSG complete 5 years unlimited Ks ( longer than the Clio EDC) warranty so VGA must be pretty confident.

    I feel really sorry for you if would buy Corolla because you fear DSG failure. Manuals also wear out clutches.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Richard W's Avatar
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    Hi Robmac. I don't think we are really in disagreement. I have no desire to drive a Corolla. Unlike many people on this forum, I happen to love the DSG gearbox. It was a good solution in our house where one driver (me) wanted something fun to drive and hates conventional autos in small cars, and where the other driver (my wife) refused to drive a manual. We've had two mk5 Golf GTIs with DSG and did about 60,000k in each. They kept us both very happy for a number of years.

    I was initially just intending to point out to Jinandfonic that it isn't the 6 speed DSG that has attracted the controversy - it's the 7 speed.

    However, it's also indisputable that VAG fits the 6 speed, not the 7 speed, to their highest output motors - the R32, Golf R etc, which you would expect to be driven the hardest. VAG still hasn't had any problems with the 6speed in these cars. It also fits the twin charged 1.4 with 7 speed DSG to the lower level Golfs and it has had lots of (reports of) problems - so I don't think it can be just driving style that accounts for any difference in reliability record between the two gearboxes.

    That said, if we were in the market for a Golf or Polo class car, I'd happily live with a VAG 1.4 with 7 speed DSG rather than resort to a Corolla.

    By contrast, I would never, ever contemplate an AL4. Quite apart from the reliability issues, when my wife and I first got together she had a 1.6 Pug 206 with an AL4 that became our sole car for a couple of years. It was an irredeemably dreadful thing to drive that, were it not on a lease with high exit fees, I would happily have pushed over a cliff.
    Last edited by Richard W; 1st September 2014 at 05:55 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
    Hi Robmac. I don't think we are really in disagreement. I have no desire to drive a Corolla. Unlike many people on this forum, I happen to love the DSG gearbox. It was a good solution in our house where one driver (me) wanted something fun to drive and hates conventional autos in small cars, and where the other driver (my wife) refused to drive a manual. We've had two mk5 Golf GTIs with DSG and did about 60,000k in each. They kept us both very happy for a number of years.

    I was initially just intending to point out to Jinandfonic that it isn't the 6 speed DSG that has attracted the controversy - it's the 7 speed.

    However, it's also indisputable that VAG fits the 6 speed, not the 7 speed, to their highest output motors - the R32, Golf R etc, which you would expect to be driven the hardest. VAG still hasn't had any problems with the 6speed in these cars. It also fits the twin charged 1.4 with 7 speed DSG to the lower level Golfs and it has had lots of (reports of) problems - so I don't think it can be just driving style that accounts for any difference in reliability record between the two gearboxes.

    That said, if we were in the market for a Golf or Polo class car, I'd happily live with a VAG 1.4 with 7 speed DSG rather than resort to a Corolla.

    By contrast, I would never, ever contemplate an AL4. Quite apart from the reliability issues, when my wife and I first got together she had a 1.6 Pug 206 with an AL4 that became our sole car for a couple of years. It was an irredeemably dreadful thing to drive that, were it not on a lease with high exit fees, I would happily have pushed over a cliff.
    It seems we are in furious agreement. I couldn't face having a Toyota Yaris appliance in the garage. So we trod the mid ground and went Skoda Fabia RS Wagon. Which unlike Polo have a 5 year warranty and are very roomy inside.

  20. #20
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    Sorry Beano but the SWMBO is insisting on an auto.

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    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Maybe I was confused between gearboxes😜
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    These sponsors for example:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sponsor 1.jpg 
Views:	154 
Size:	94.7 KB 
ID:	60263

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sponsor 2.jpg 
Views:	157 
Size:	102.6 KB 
ID:	60264

    Surely you have seen Dave Cav, French connection and his multiple ads for various vehicles?

    Plus the fact his user name "lights up" in bright blue in the Who's online list.

    Well this had been useful feedback for the moderators as I only use an iPhone which doesn't show pages in that format. Mobile sites for most forums are limited to the bear essentials. The phone is far more efficient as photos can be added immediately & doesn't take 10 minutes to start up like my old laptop.
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    Get with a PC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Chisholm View Post
    Get with a PC.
    Old school rocks!
    My on the VAG DSG dramas maybe put down to over efficient German engineers. From what I've gleaned from a wide range of sources the problem is not the test track driver, the machine like engineer it is the general public who dither/hesitant/dawdle or just plain "can't get their sh!t together" to drive a car with a degree of certainty.
    IIRC many of the problems are the result of the gearbox getting conflicting demands: yes/no and maybe are going to confuse the system when it has been designed by a bloke who can draw a flow chart on 'How the car is to be driven'.
    Also the test track and laboratory aren't the Real World, Saturday morning shopping in Camberwell is much tougher!
    Brendan.

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    So guys, I know little about the VW DSG; I'm looking at a second hand Golf (not GTI) around 2008 - avoid DSG or not?

    BTW she's OK with a manual, but we would prefer auto.


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