Please allow me to introduce myself
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Thread: Please allow me to introduce myself

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Please allow me to introduce myself

    Hello good people of this wonderful forum, my name is György Bolla, and firstly, big cheers for having me here.

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    I live thousands of miles away from most of you, in Central Europe, (Budapest, Hungary to be more precise), so i don't think i'll ever attend any meetups. However, i do have a 1986 Peugeot 505 in my posession, that i like to use daily and especially in the snow.

    That's why i'm here

    Please allow me to introduce myself-peugeot-505-khz-snow.jpg

    I wanted a 505 ever since i drove a Turbo in 2010, which completely turned my head. However, as 505s are few and far between in my neck of the woods, it took me two years to find an example that i would, and could buy. It's not my dream 505, as it sports a XN1 up front, and i wanted a pre-1986 originaly, but at least it's a 5speed, and i also happen to have a factory LSD diff (4.1) installed. Lots already done to get it in driver condition, others are still waiting to be done, fair to say it's a work in progress, but at least it does really progress - as i type this, it is in the body shop, getting rid of all the tinworm infection. Loads, as you would imagine.

    It'll never be better looking as this, i don't want it shiny, but i want it to drive well, so now that i'm done with the brakes and the chassis is ok, i should be looking for a couple of horses under the hood. Even though the auto choke on the factory Solex works ok, and the car starts and runs well, it also feels weak, weaker even than the original 97 HP would suggest - i bet a few of those ponies got away. And this is how i got here: the only place in the whole wide internet that i found to be having any info on tuning this old OHV engine is Australia. I read the "Hot Five Ohs' page, and learnt about hot cams and four port heads (XN1A), that no one else seems to know much about, not even the french 505 forum i got in touch with, via google translate.

    So i came here with friendship, and lots of questions.

    cheers

    györgy

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    györgy,

    Nice photo of your beast, wow I hope your heater works!

    Good Luck
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  3. #3
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    Oh you bet it does, no problem with that. The rear window defroster is defect though, need to get around to that as well sometime.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    györgy,

    In Sydney we have had a about 2 weeks of rain and some days down to about 13C (we thought that was cold ).

    Just found this old thread:

    Hotting up an XN1
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    Cheers. This thread too says, that to get the best out of an XN1 engine, one needs the 4port XN1A head. Which is my problem, i cannot really find that in Europe.....

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphine500 View Post
    ...to get the best out of an XN1 engine, one needs the 4port XN1A head. Which is my problem, i cannot really find that in Europe.....
    Not quite right. There are lots of ways you can get power out of an XN1. They all involve a head change, but not necessarily an XN1A. There are a couple of questions you need to answer before you start looking for parts:
    What kind power are you after?
    What power do you have now?
    Where are the missing ponies/which barn door is open?
    What is your budget?

    For starters, take a compression test. Anything less that 150 psi is a concern. Squirt some oil into the cylinder and test again.Does the number increase significantly (30 psi or more)? If so you need rings (or pistons and liners) and changing the head will not help you much. If the oil does not increase the pressure it's the valves. Could be just an adjustment or more involved than that.

    As for the conversion you are after, the XN1A is from Argentina and even there it is very rare. But you can use an XN2 instead. In most cases it works better, in spite of what is written out there regarding valve sizes etc.
    But even if you find the head, you need a lot more than that. A 4 into 1 intake manifold (good luck with that), a carburetor and a cam that works well with a 4 port head (you can reprofile yours to a Wade 112 profile). Or you can get an XN2 head and twin DCOE's, or quad throttle bodies, or basic EFI.... it all depends on your targets and budget. But costs add up rapidly, even small power bumps are more expensive than one expects. They can easily exceed the cost of the car.

    But no matter what, first get an idea of the state of your engine. 504 and 505 engines often appear more powerful than they are; if yours feels weak, it definitely needs attention.

    If I were in a situation like yours, I would buy the complete stoker engine package that Graham Wallis is selling. Plenty of power, great economy because of the modern EFI, and reliability for years as this is a new engine. Freight from OZ is not as expensive as one would expect, I have imported heaps of parts to Greece from there.

    Welcome to Aussiefrogs
    pugnut1 and morphine500 like this.

  7. #7
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    Graham Wallis being a member on this forum...


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  8. #8
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    *sighs* I love Budapest and Hungary in general

    Dave
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Graham Wallis being a member on this forum...
    Yes, and here is the link describing the engine:
    Peugeot 404/504/505 XN engine management

  10. #10
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    Thanos, first let me say i love your 504 Coupe rally car. You will recognize the car this video was made in then it's not the greatest film i ever made, because this was the very first i shot completely alone, read: i didn't have professionals do the camera work. It was made at a press event in 2010, where Peugeot commemorated the 200 years aniversay, and the driver is Jean-Claude Lefèbvre - someone knowing the car quite well. He actually said the shocks are the originals they raced back in the day.... So needless to say, looking at your racer in that other thread made me all hot and bothered.

    As per your advice, thanks. As i wrote earlier, it is very hard to get info on this issue anywhere else, people just don't care about / tune these cars around my parts, so it's very hard to get anything usable - that's why i here, because even a cursory visit would tell anyone you guys know your XNs and PRVs and Douvrins around here. So any and all ideas and advice are welcome.

    I should start with getting the engine i have sorted, you're completely right about that. The valves should be set up correcty, at least i had someone do it as part of a bigger servicing last summer, but i don't know much about what the compression looks like today, and the carb i have needs new gaskets too, at the very least. Maybe a full overhaul will reap the rewards - i hope i can carry that out this autumn.

    XN2 is of course much easier to source even around here, so if you say that's the way to go, if i want to keep it XN, that makes matters easier for sure. I was looking into the XN1A, because of what i read about that around here and elswhere.

    Incidentaly, my original plan was to go down the Douvrin route, i actually have a 2.2 laying around pulled from a 1982 STI, and i know people who would be completely capable to add a programable EFI and ignition to that. I would be very happy with 150 HP, but my idea was that it must be significantly cheaper to work a bit on the engine already installed, even if that only gets me to 110 HP - i have to be honest here, money is certainly an issue.

    So there is a good question: what would you guys estimate the price of HP in this case? How much to get an XN1, that works in the car, but is completely stock to 110-115 HP? How much to get that to more than that, with an XN2 head? And how much would be to install and tune a 2.2 STI engine?

    cheers for the warm welcome

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    And i love Rome. You're always welcome to a good drive on windy back roads, if you're ever around

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    morphine500 I think 68 404 'Rome' is more along the lines that Sydney has a suburb call 'Seven Hills", Rome has 'Seven Hills'. Sydney also has a 'Beverley Hills' which is not like USA version at all and the Melbourne suburb of 'Noble Park' (my home for many years) isn't Noble at all and would probably win a knife fight over many foreign 'tough' towns.
    I'm also doing, long term, the go faster XN1 because there is an old saying in Australia, "There is nothing wrong with a Peugeot that an extra 25 bhp wouldn't fix." Owned a 504 Ti years ago, XN2 so 110 bhp/ 82 kW, raise the performance to 135 bhp/ 100 kW and a nicer ride is had.
    Brendan.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphine500 View Post

    ...I should start with getting the engine i have sorted, you're completely right about that. The valves should be set up correctly, at least i had someone do it ...
    Incidentally, my original plan was to go down the Douvrin route, i actually have a 2.2 laying around pulled from a 1982 STI, and i know people who would be completely capable to add a programmable EFI and ignition to that.
    ...I would be very happy with 150 HP....
    ...have to be honest here, money is certainly an issue...
    My response is based on your statements above. Peugeot has a very specific method for adjusting valves; if they did not know it, chances are they got it wrong. Download the service manual at www.peugeot504.org
    If it turns out that your engine needs an overhaul (low/uneven cylinder pressures after correctly adjusting the valves), I would just drive it to the ground. Spending money on a tired XN1 is like training a mule for a horse race. If the engine appears to be in decent shape, pull the head off, skim it 0.5 mm, get a Wade 112 and maybe a Weber ADM or equivalent. This will get you to around 110 bhp, plenty to keep you going sideways on snow. As funds become available start building your Douvrin. Get some rings and fill the head to increase compression. A road/rally cam and QTB's with EFI will get you 170+ bhp for not a lot of money. Intake manifolds for QTB's are available and not expensive and there is a wide range of cams. You can pull a complete QTB set from one of the older Celicas at a bargain price. Build the engine as time and funds allow. It will cost you the same as converting your current engine to an XN1A, but it will be a lot more powerful and modern, not to mention fuel efficient.
    morphine500 likes this.

  14. #14
    Tadpole
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    Whoa. Ok, that's almost all the info i needed in a nutshell, huge thanks for that!

    Some questions though: you say wide range of cams are available for the 2.2, i just don't know where..? I looked, but am yet to find tuning info for the Douvrin. And do you mean an older celcia quad throttle body will fit that? Because i happen to own an MR2, and thus know a few Toyota guys too, so it's completely feasible i can get that. Which engine should i be looking for?

    What you described as starting steps on the XN1 sound perfectly doable to me, in fact i had something similar in my mind, so if the engine checks out to be ok, i'll be going down this route. However, about the wade cam: i read the specs of that, is that enough to machine one from my existing cam, or should i order it from someone? I'm sorry about this noob question, don't know enough about these things.....

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluey504 View Post
    the Melbourne suburb of 'Noble Park' (my home for many years) isn't Noble at all
    Didn't it start out originally as "Nobel" Park? ... and not for Prize-winning reasons?
    MY15 208GTi

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    QUICK! MORE BREAD, MORE CIRCUSES!!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphine500 View Post
    ... you say wide range of cams are available for the 2.2, i just don't know where..? I looked, but am yet to find tuning info for the Douvrin. And do you mean an older celcia quad throttle body will fit that? Because i happen to own an MR2, and thus know a few Toyota guys too, so it's completely feasible i can get that. Which engine should i be looking for?
    The cams are available, check posts by "Douvrin 504" for a supplier in Europe. Crow Cams in OZ can also reprofile your cam for much less than it would cost for a new one. You will need a specific intake manifold for the Douvrin, the Toyota QTB's will work, but the Toyota intake manifold will not fit the Douvrin. The intake manifold and cam are hard to find, but available. If you go that route, I will dig up this information once you start your engine work.
    As for the throttle bodies, here is an example: JDM Toyota 4A GE Black Top 20VALVE itb's 4AGE Intake Manifold 4A | eBay
    You can hunt down the rest of the components (fuel pump, ecu, etc) as they become available.

    Quote Originally Posted by morphine500 View Post
    .., about the wade cam: i read the specs of that, is that enough to machine one from my existing cam, or should i order it from someone? .....
    You can send your XN1 cam for reprofiling and the followers for resurfacing to Wade. But with the cost of postage and the heavy weight, it makes more sense to buy one an Aussiefrogger has around, or to ask Graham Wallis to handle it for you, his fees are super reasonable. And you can still drive your car while the cam is in transit and being reprofiled, AND you have the original cam.
    Last edited by ThanosK; 27th August 2014 at 11:30 PM.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bern View Post
    Didn't it start out originally as "Nobel" Park? ... and not for Prize-winning reasons?
    Yes mr bern gets the cigar, an exploding one! The liberal use of Cassa Nobel explosives was used to great effect in clearing the Gum tree forest into grazing land. A few trees remain and some are quite an age, 400-500 years old.
    Explosions still occur but that's normally a Meth lab over heating or similar.
    Brendan.
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