New frogger with a S16 and questions!
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    Member mclouj's Avatar
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    Default New frogger with a S16 and questions!

    Howdy folks,

    I've been lurking here for a while absorbing as much info as possible (and there is a large amount here!). I have been looking around for my first french hot hatch for about 18 months - I wanted something fun to drive with character and as few computers as possible (for as little initial cash outlay as possible) that I could work on in my spare time. My dad has just finished building a pretty tidy workshop at his place in Rockingham so I have some space to tinker and pull stuff apart if required (once my brother finishes his E28 project )

    Initially was looking at Clio 172's and 182's but SWMBO kept frowning until I brought the budget waaaaay down . Finally found exactly what I was after in a great little '94 306 S16 in sexy maroon about 500m down the road from my place.

    Last couple of days I have just been driving around getting used to the awesome handling and revvy motor with a huge smile on my face, learning the noises and idiosyncrasies that go hand in hand with an older continental motor vehicle. And of course, one day during a cold start the noises were slightly different to usual and upon closer inspection, it looks like I may have a slight leak in the cam cover gasket.

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    https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cJPG
    I'm guessing this is relatively easy to fix? Undo 12 bolts, remove cover, re-apply gasket and sealant, replace cover and bolt it back up? One of the bolts has previously snapped - it looked a bit loose and fell off in my hand when I grabbed it, so a stud extractor is in my future too.

    Another interesting thing I noticed in the engine bay are some rogue electrical connectors, does anyone have any idea as to what they are supposed to be plugged into?
    https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cJPG

    Here's all the pics of the car ==>
    https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...t=folder%2cjpg

    Looking forward to many years of WTFdoesthisdo / Whytheheckisthatnotworking? and happy motoring with the little red rocket
    Last edited by mclouj; 14th August 2014 at 11:35 PM.
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    Nothing unusual about a leak in the cam cover. But the pics are on Onedrive ([email protected]#% urk) and MS won't share them on many systems, even if you use a preferred browser. I could get them by faking the user agent etc, but it's too much bother. If they aren't ridiculously large why not attach them here.

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    Member mclouj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Nothing unusual about a leak in the cam cover. But the pics are on Onedrive ([email protected]#% urk) and MS won't share them on many systems, even if you use a preferred browser. I could get them by faking the user agent etc, but it's too much bother. If they aren't ridiculously large why not attach them here.
    Whoops my bad with Onedrive, I don't normally bother with it but I thought I had the view permissions sorted. Just recently synced all my pics up there so thought I would give it a crack.

    Here are some of the pics - I haven't shrunk them down for detail purposes.


    New frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1511.jpgNew frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1516.jpgNew frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1518.jpgNew frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1520.jpgNew frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1527.jpg

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    Welcome!

    Great colour there, I wish my '6 wasn't black sometimes. Mine's an N5 but I think I like the hockey-stick style N3 brake lights better. The rear badges are on the opposite sides too...never noticed that before!

    If you're parking it outside watch for rain leaking in around the front courtesy light via the seals on the aerial, which will likely be cactus by now. Or instead of waiting you can just gently pop out the large light fitting with a butter knife and see if the bolt on the aerial is all rusty.
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    2000 306 GTi6 'Josie'

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    Looks to be in very tidy shape! Coincidentally I just did the cam cover gasket last weekend! Be very careful with that oil hose connected to the cam cover. It is likely the original and equally likely to crumble into pieces when you take it off!

    Mine went a couple of years ago when I pulled the gearbox out. you can't buy the part and it is a really odd sized hose (may have been 19mm ID from memory... no just looked and that was another one the small one to the cam cover is a different (and more common) size). I ended up buying some steel re-inforced nylon braided hose to replace mine. Got it from took me a couple of weeks to track down!

    One thing you learn with one of these is that whenever there is anything in the road that is making life difficult, TAKE IT OFF!

    I got the gasket from EAI (I think it was around $50) It is an odd looking beast, silicon and an odd shape because it goes up and over.

    There were a few more than the twelve bolts you can see. There are another 5 under the coil cover.

    What I did.

    took photos of everything before undoing (just in case)
    removed the coil cover.
    removed the coils.
    undid the plug on the coil wiring loom (unscrews) and then also undid the retaining ring on the coil wiring loom and removed from the bracket.
    removed the bracket (you need to remove one of the bolts on the vacuum pump).
    Undid the the bolts securing metal piping. moved piping out of the way.
    disconnected the fuel line and return and hooked up out of the way with a cable tie (note it usually is under pressure so you will get some fuel comming out.
    undid the dipstick securing bolt.
    (after stuffing around a lot) got under the car and undid the bolt on the other end of the dipstick tube (this allows you to move the dipstick tube enough to be able to get a small socket ratchet onto the right rear bolt.
    undid cam cover bolts starting from the middle and working my way out. a bit at a time (including the three down the middle between the coils and the ones on either end. Note one is shorter than the rest, right hand middle one from memory.

    Lifted off the cam cover took out the old gasket, cleaned the cam cover, wiped down the face of the head, put in the new gasket and placed the cover back on.

    Manual says 10NM for torque so I went round from middle to outside (diagonal opposites working out) first at 5nm, then at 8nm and finally at 10NM. Possibly being a bit anal, but can't hurt.

    Put everything back in, in reverse order. Don't forget to put in the bottom dipstick tube bolt before putting the top one in! I forgot and had to pull the fuel lines off again (not an easy task) to get at the top bolt!

    Set aside a good few hours, it will probably take longer than you expect

    There are definitely some connectors that don't connect to anything... but that blue and black one does look a bit sus... I'll go poke my head under the bonnet and see what I can see. OK I can't see those dangling wires, or something that looks like them plugged in anywhere... could be a difference between the 94 and 95 model... The red and white ones are the oxygen sensor, but I don't have any other wires near by.. about the only thing that I can see that might be the blue one, is one of the coolant sensor plugs.

    edit: I knew something looked different about the back. My S16 is on the right!

    Tony.
    Last edited by Wintermute; 14th August 2014 at 10:44 PM.
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    306 S16 1995 black
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    Thanks for the info Tony, that is great.

    Regarding the badges, every single other S16 I have seen has the badges around the other way... makes me think that maybe that the rear has been resprayed at some point. No obvious evidence of accident repair though so .

    TrinityJayOne - fortunately the pug gets to stay under cover at all times. I will check the area around the aerial and light though - good tip!
    Last edited by mclouj; 21st August 2014 at 04:05 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    no probs. here is a link to the post I put up after I did it French car owners monthly tyre kicking day The first pic shows the channel that the gasket sits in. It is definitely one of those jobs you need the real gasket!

    Tony.
    306 S16 1995 black
    Morris 1100 1965 green

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    Member mclouj's Avatar
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    Right, will be ordering one from EAI tomorrow then. Would it be worth getting new bolts and seals as well? One of the bolts came pre-snapped and the rest of them are a bit rounded and I'm skeptical about their condition.

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    My 406 had the same leaky aerial. And yes, the cam box oil leaks...

    Dave
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    Excellent! Welcome to the fold! Please come along to the French Car Festival in September! My partner has an S16, and we live quite near you. Might see you on the streets!

    Our S16 has the same rouge electrical connector. I assumed either a port from which to monitor engine codes, diagnostic, or something from the stock alarm/immobiliser/remote, as ours has an after market job.

    Your badges are the wrong way around! Definitely my favourite colour of 306 though; white was what was available to us!

    Your accessory belt cover is broken; you might want to consider removing part or all of it.

    Keep an eye on your coolant level; from the photos, it looks like your top radiator hose may be leaking occasionally. On that topic, how's the heater? Working, or blocked off?

    You'll want to check that your AVAC (Admission à Caractéristique Acoustique Variable) system works too. The two black pods either side of the intake manifold alter the length and diameter of the air intake. This boosts your low down torque. To test it, open the bonnet, run the car, and rev the engine while watching them. If the move in sync almost immediately with a rev increase, then good. They should return by ~4000-4500rpm. If not, search the forums for some troubleshooting!

    Welcome to the club. It's pretty excellent. Try not to grin too much if a cop pulls you over for cornering "too fast"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FedGrapes View Post
    Excellent! Welcome to the fold! Please come along to the French Car Festival in September! My partner has an S16, and we live quite near you. Might see you on the streets!
    Definitely going again this year, having a look at the pretty 205's and renaultsports last year was what prompted this gallic diversion in the first place Should be a nice day out with the family.

    Good to know there's someone else in Perth with one of these beauties!

    Quote Originally Posted by FedGrapes View Post
    Our S16 has the same rouge electrical connector. I assumed either a port from which to monitor engine codes, diagnostic, or something from the stock alarm/immobiliser/remote, as ours has an after market job.
    Ok well I won't stress about it then.

    Quote Originally Posted by FedGrapes View Post
    Your badges are the wrong way around! Definitely my favourite colour of 306 though; white was what was available to us!
    Doh! Well I'll just pretend that my car is an individual. Would love to know how it happened though...

    Quote Originally Posted by FedGrapes View Post
    Your accessory belt cover is broken; you might want to consider removing part or all of it.

    Keep an eye on your coolant level; from the photos, it looks like your top radiator hose may be leaking occasionally. On that topic, how's the heater? Working, or blocked off?
    Belt cover got removed earlier tonight, it was previously slapping against the belt in a pretty alarming way. Top hose I disconnected while taking a sticky beak at the rocker cover, and a small amount of coolant dribbled out. It is clamped back on now quite firmly and coolant levels seem ok. Tested the heater on Tuesday night during a spirited drive through the hills, and its working great. AC not so much, probably needs a re-gas as the previous owner said he hadn't used it in the last couple of years (car has only done 6000km since 2011).

    Quote Originally Posted by FedGrapes View Post
    You'll want to check that your AVAC (Admission à Caractéristique Acoustique Variable) system works too. The two black pods either side of the intake manifold alter the length and diameter of the air intake. This boosts your low down torque. To test it, open the bonnet, run the car, and rev the engine while watching them. If the move in sync almost immediately with a rev increase, then good. They should return by ~4000-4500rpm. If not, search the forums for some troubleshooting!
    I had no idea this was a thing. I will check them out! I am guessing they are the doodads circled in red in this pic?
    New frogger with a S16 and questions!-acav.jpg


    Thanks a heap for all the comments and helpful advice guys! Its great forums like these that make owning niche cars so much fun
    Last edited by mclouj; 15th August 2014 at 02:04 AM.

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    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    yes they are the vacuum pods. If they aren't working the car has no torque below about 4000 RPM (also uses a lot more fuel).

    On the bolts and seals, bolts can't hurt, but they are quite low torque (the fact that they are rounded off tends to indicate they have been way overtightened at some point!). Seals: There are seals for the spark plug wells, but as far as I know they are no longer available. I just cleaned them and put them back in. There are also three under the three middle bolts (between the coil holes) I just left those alone.

    Tony.
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    Luckily had most of the weekend to work on the car and managed to get a fair bit done.

    Fixed a leak in the top oil return hose by chopping the end off and (carefully) clamping it back on. Only had to remove about 10mm so the hose still has sufficient play in it by my estimates. Will need a new hose soon though.

    Tested the ACAV system, and it seems to work fine. The actuators move when at low revs and move back in at higher engine speeds. Car has never felt like it lacked torque so that's a good sign.

    Removed the old Eurovox stereo and 10 disc CD stacker along with associated cabling - it wasn't working and I need something with handsfree bluetooth for work. Carefully put all the carpets and seals back together and then vacuumed out all the fragments of 20 year old cork that the dealer used between the mounting brackets and the boot liner...

    I discovered that the previous owner went a little crazy with some glue at some point, probably in a quest to silence rattles. Amusingly there was a huge pool of it on top of the passenger air vent duct...
    New frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1546.jpg
    And around the dash near the A pillar. And in the air vents. And under the roof lining near the vanity light.

    Once that was done, I put in the new head unit, a stocko Pioneer mechless with bluetooth. Once I got the right Pioneer -> ISO harness all was well. As an aside, does anyone know the best place to get an adapter for the aerial for one of these connectors? Or would it be easier to just buy a newer aerial with a modern connector? My google skills have yet to reap anything useful on the subject.
    New frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1543.jpgNew frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1544.jpg

    Once I had it all hooked up and tested out ok I started looking for somewhere to feed the microphone cable up to the sun visor. Pulled out the cover in the passenger footwell and fed it through the door seals, A pillar and roof liner.

    Now I can stream my podcasts and talk to the boss while driving! (yay?)
    New frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1554.jpg
    Does ruin the look of the cabin a bit though as the blue lights are completely out of place. Orange or adjustable colours was going to be a couple extra hundred so blue it is.

    While I was down there though I made a discovery.

    Wait what is this stuff...
    New frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1539.jpg

    Ah crap.
    New frogger with a S16 and questions!-img_1542.jpg

    I'm guessing this is a heater / AC pipe. Any idea as to what causes this to leak and how much of a bastard is it to fix?

    A few more things to do in coming weeks -->
    - Transplant my dashcam from the work car / replace with new one haven't decided yet.
    - Replace rocker cover gasket
    - Track down a new set of rocker cover bolts (these are proving hard to find, may have to just improvise from bunnings.
    - Timing belt / tensioner pulley / water pump - last done in 2010 so even though the car has only done 12k since then they are definitely due. Will be letting the professionals do this one as I don't want the car off the road too long.
    - New rotors and pads all around, probably some upgraded EBC slotted rotors and greenstuff pads - used these in my mondeo and they made a huge difference to braking performance. Will probably change the brake lines to some braided ones too just because
    - New set of matching tyres. GT Radial champiros on the front sadly have too much tread left to swap out right away, but I'm sure some adjustments in driving style can improve the situation. Michelins on the back are pretty much semi slicks at this point.
    - Heater core replacement as per todays discovery.
    Last edited by mclouj; 17th August 2014 at 11:09 PM.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mclouj View Post
    Wait what is this stuff...
    looks like dried out coolant.

    jo

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It's a suspicious white powder. I would be surrendering the car to the AFP for testing.

    306 heater core, shouldn't be too bad. Many fail due to the top housing rubber O-rings turning into "wood" over the years. Loss of flex means loss of sealing.
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    Yep, part of owning a 306 or 405 - a heater core replacement. I think it's quite involved on the 306 and the dealers used to remove the dash, but there are creative ways involving just removing bits of the glovebox. Someone will pop up with a definitive answer for the 306 which I haven't worked on. I think member John W had one done on his by the dealer.

    Nice car by the way...love the 306. Best looking hatch ever built.
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    big yes on the greenstuff pads, though I only run greenstuff on the front. The back has blackstuff I think.

    I've had a couple of sets of EBC slotted and dimpled (as opposed to drilled) rotors, I've also had had a few of sets of ATE power discs. and probably a couple of other types. But the last set of rotors I put on was a set of DBA slotted, and they have outlasted the rest (and I think that they were also cheaper). I think I've had the DBA's for about 7 years now. They are very slightly warped (thanks to the last time I got tyres). Wheel nuts not torqued up properly.

    Addo should be able to tell you what's involved in doing a 306 heater core. It is my understanding that it is a full dash out job, and a good days work for an experienced mechanic (so for someone like me set asside a long weekend!), but Addo says he can do it in 4 hours so he must know a few tricks!!

    Tony.
    306 S16 1995 black
    Morris 1100 1965 green

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    That looks like a fun weekend! Thanks for the link.

    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    It's a suspicious white powder. I would be surrendering the car to the AFP for testing.

    306 heater core, shouldn't be too bad. Many fail due to the top housing rubber O-rings turning into "wood" over the years. Loss of flex means loss of sealing.
    I will start looking around for a replacement shortly. I just did a vigorous drive through the hills with the heater off, no moisture. Turned it on and drove round the block a few times, sure enough it got damp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    big yes on the greenstuff pads, though I only run greenstuff on the front. The back has blackstuff I think.

    I've had a couple of sets of EBC slotted and dimpled (as opposed to drilled) rotors, I've also had had a few of sets of ATE power discs. and probably a couple of other types. But the last set of rotors I put on was a set of DBA slotted, and they have outlasted the rest (and I think that they were also cheaper).
    I will check out the DBAs, depends on how easy they will be to get hold of. I am definitely keen to get something a bit more bitey on the front at least, whatever is on there at the moment has the stopping power of a lamington.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Nice car by the way...love the 306. Best looking hatch ever built.
    Damn straight!

    Thanks for the help guys.

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    I've used DBA discs and they're good quality.

    I'm pretty sure the heater matrix flows water all the time and hot air is diverted via air flaps when you need it. So it should be wet all the time. Maybe the airflow is making the coolant appear that might not otherwise have come out of the core spaces (they can leak slightly for years).


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    The water circuit flows all the time in 306s and 405s and hardening of the heater joint seals is notorious.

    We used to add Bars Leaks as a precaution years ago - the active ingredient, some magic called "Rhizex", is reputed to be pellets of ginger root.

    Subarus of the era had a leak problem as well, and Subaru Cooling System Conditioner was available, more secret magic, reputed to be borax and ground linseed. Subie dealers used to sell it.

    Bars might put off the problem for a while. Does anyone have some recent experience?

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    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    When I realized mine was leaking I bypassed it. It was due for heater hose replacement anyway and I couldn't get one. I remember reading that if you do buy a new one that it is a condition of the warranty that you must put a bottle of bars leaks (or it could have been another) in when you install it, so it might be worth a try.

    Is there a second set of O rings other than the ones on the end of the heater hose?

    Tony.
    306 S16 1995 black
    Morris 1100 1965 green

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    The o-rings I refer to, are part of the heater core "preassembly" and are not usually touched. They are the ones that fail, not those on the firewall elbows.

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    Yes, o-rings between the end tanks and each matrix tube.

    I put Bar's Leaks in mine and it fixed it. Then six months later replaced the coolant as I didn't like the stuff in the coolant; a sort of oily film and granules was present. But I'm pretty sure it's still OK, some six or seven years later.


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    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    Hmm. I'm tempted to try that then! I still have the heater hose (just it was 6 years old, and the first two failed at 5 years, and 10 years pretty much like clockwork!) It might even stop my leaking epoxied up radiator bleed screw may however be less successful since it has had two years to dry out (since that is how long it has been bypassed)...

    Tony.
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