New Pug Owner!

[Gillzy]

Hey guys I am new to the french scene and was originally in the market for a clio sport 172/ or 207GTI 180..

Advertisement

ended up with a 207GT (black)

Fairly happy with it, apart from the not very flash throttle response and seems quite flat from 3.2k revs after boost snaps on at 2.5k

Since Ive had it some genius has hit the drivers door, which was a nice surprise after work!

My names Aiden, 20, live in the northern suburbs and work two jobs and go to Uni


Hoping there were a few others with turbo 207s keen to lean, try and get my hands dirty but having never owned a turbo or a car with so many electrics Im scared to touch anything.

I have heard AutoParis is a great garage so I am hoping to go there in the next couple of months to see if there is indeed a flat spot in the power band.

Would like to do a couple of mild upgrades but cannot seem to find any decent supply of parts like I did with my Golf VR6 and a tune is definitely on the cards



Cheers Guys

[pug206gti]

G'day Aiden,
welcome to the next 20 years of your life, just kidding. Take a number and wait. Someone will be along shortly to help you.
Seriously, any problem you have can be solved within these pages. There are members here that have vast knowledge of Pugs and other minor French cars, [but don't tell them I said that].
Oh, and welcome to Aussiefrogs.

[Kaza1]

The THP engine has a very linear power band - it's more about torque than outright power and can feel breathless in the upper rev range. Having said that, they should feel torquey easily pull higher gears at low revs once they are boosting.

[seasink]

You can spend a lot of money and achieve very little with these rather high-tech motors. The performance curves are at http://www.peugeot-citroen-moteurs.f...data_sheet.pdf. As Kaza1 notes, the torque graph is near flat for the first half of the rev range.

[TrinityJayOne]

Welcome to the fold! I see that you, like me, have made the mistake of buying a black (first?) car I think I spend more time washing the bloody thing than actually driving it, and with the weather we've been having of late I've stopped bothering with the former altogether. Bugger about the door too. I'm guessing the bastards probably went on their merry way without leaving a note. Unfortunately it won't be the last of it either! I generally only drive on weekends or after work and I've still had 2-3 idiots wang their doors into me in the space of a year.

I hope I'm not ruining your day here, but with our stupid restrictions I would think that you aren't legally allowed to drive this yet being that it's a turbo? Correct me if I'm wrong but you would still be on your P plates until 21yo, unless you've moved from another state with relaxed licensing policies. Or did you get an exemption?

Seeing as you're in the northern suburbs I would recommend Sim's Motors in Brunswick for any mechanical issues you might () come across.

[Alain]

[QUOTE=Gillzy;1275578]Hey guys I am new to the french scene and was originally in the market for a clio sport 172/ or 207GTI 180..

ended up with a 207GT (black)

Fairly happy with it, apart from the not very flash throttle response and seems quite flat from 3.2k revs after boost snaps on at 2.5k

Hi Aiden
How many klm's are we talking? and services been done (up to date) by the book? or by some one who knows what he is doing with Pugs?
This will shed light on where to look
Alain

[SLC206]

Gillzy,

Welcome to

Congrats on the new car.

[Specnut727]

G'day Aiden, welcome aboard and I hope you enjoy your Pug as much as the rest of us do.
Seasink, thanks for the link. Flat torque curves are interesting to drive, especially if you're used to something that needs to rev to make any power. The link took me to the THP 156 so I backtracked around the site and found one for the THP 200 in my 208 GTi.
Re P plate restrictions, in QLD up to 2010 it was no V8s and no turbos (unless diesel). For vehicles manufactured after 2010 it's based on power to weight, and the P plate limit is 130 kW/tonne. So the 208 GTi is a no no, but I think most other Pugs would be below 130.

[TrinityJayOne]

That's essentially what we have in Victoria now. The 208 GTi should just scrape under 130kW/t though, same with the Fiesta ST and that blasphemous non-manual RS Clio.

[Gillzy]

Hi guys, thanks for the warm welcome and info regarding the THP engines!

Unfortunately this is my second black car, not learning from the first one about the constant upkeep they require, especially without a garage. Unfortunately for me and my cars I am very matriculate with them and every time I find a new scratch on it I die a little inside and have wasted to much money in the past fixing every ding and scratch haha.

In terms of my little power problem, I just feel that car doesn't have the power I thought and unlike 206's I have never driven another so I don't know how they are supposed to feel first hand. All I know is that my mothers 206GTI feels gutsier than my 207. Having come from a VR6 2.8l I understand it might not have as much available power but with that block having 230nm and the little 207 having 240nm I thought it might have a little more go!

Its a few clicks under 80,000 now and was serviced at Peugeot the first 4 times, missed a service or two and the last three have been done at two local garage local to the previous owner (a little bit of P.I, I found out an older lady owned it).

Its had some wiring redone because of the headlights from ringing up one of the garages, but was always good knick.

I may take it down to Auto Paris or Sim's on the recommendation of Trinity next service!

Now in regards to the Turbo restriction guys, the laws have now changed for P platers being eligible for cars post 2010, under 130kw per ton as of July. I was a little silly purchasing a pug prior to 10' and yesterday have submitted a low power exemption application after driving it for a month.. so fingers crossed otherwise I will have to sell up (again) and hunt like I was for a 206GTI 180 or Clio RS 172/182

Sorry for the massive essay fellas!


Cheers,
Aiden

[Kaza1]

Aidan, at 80k km, plugs may be due (done every 40k) - these have a fair impact on performance from what I have gathered from mini forums. Also, I understand that the THPs actually benefit from hard driving -otherwise they tend to become sluggish and increases incidence of carbon build up. If Miss daisy was driving yours, well! Suggest a service, new plugs and a good old fashion Italian tune. Also, a can of subaru upper engine cleaner or Nulon foaming intake cleaner, through the PCV hose connecting to the rocker cover to try clean out the valves. Watch a '207gti seafoam' video on you tube and you will get the picture. BTW have found the cheapest place to source the plugs for these is on Amazon - they currently have the NGK Iriduim plugs (same as Mini Cooper s) on sale for $11 ea (usd) plus the special tool to remove them for $8. Works out about $80 aud shipped.

[seasink]

You might enjoy reading an early (2004) technical blurb on your engine. The factory site has taken it down now, but the Russians have it still at:
http://www.peugeot-club.ru/pgt.nsf/0/a4b21a35eececd31c325719c00287efd/$FILE/PK_PSA_BMW1103281940.pdf

[seasink]

http://www.peugeot-club.ru/pgt.nsf/0/a4b21a35eececd31c325719c00287efd/$FILE/PK_PSA_BMW1103281940.pdf

Fixed the link the forum had trouble with.

[Specnut727]

G'day Seasink, That's great info, and I've saved it for future reading/reference. I suppose most of the blurb still applies to the current THP 156 and THP 200 variants. Do you know if comparable specs are available for those. Maybe they have slightly different specs like boost pressure. Also I believe that the THP 200 has variable inlet valve lift. Do you know about that ?
Thanks, Spec.

[seasink]

Yep, even the humble 88kW naturally aspirated version has variable valve lift and timing. It's driven by a large electric stepper motor on the rear of the head, passenger side. The geometry is ingenious; I have some stuff, so I'll have a look for it.

The turbo motors have variable valve timing on inlet only, the non-turbos on exhaust as well. The cam drive wheels are on a thread, oil pressure driven.

[seasink]

Here's a view of the head - http://bartebben.nl/dailySQL/Images/...d=0CB0QMygAMAA

There's a video of the valves here - BMW Valvetronic #2 - YouTube. The design is from BMW; the engine is a developed PSA design for the block with a BMW valve gear in the head.

[seasink]

Another valve video, seen from above Peugeot 308 5FW Valve Lift System Test - YouTube

[Specnut727]

Thanks very much Seasink. It's great to know how the little beast works.

[seasink]

Since nothing succeeds like excess, here's some of the 207's suppliers. http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA6692525.PDF.

As Gerry Freed says, cars today are international - it's not just a Franco-German engine.

Gillzy, it's not just the computerised electrics that are full of tricky bits. Don't touch the timing chain tensioners, valve gear, valve timing or the crank pulley until you have read up on it and have the special clamps. It is not a conventional engine. Most of this stuff is on Youtube for a quick overview. It's in a few Pug and Cit models.

[seasink]

I forgot a very good one about the engine (in French, but well worth persevering for those who have forgotten their schooldays) https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2013/01/0...6dt-et-ep6.pdf

[Specnut727]

Thanks again Seasink. More great info. Would you like to comment on my post re top end noise ?

[seasink]

What was the noise question? There have been some engine design changes to clear up faults in early models, eg oil pump solenoids, crankcase ventilation that deposits gunk on the inlet valves, but mainly timing chain loss of tension, which can lead to major trouble. If you have this you will hear noise in the chain drive on the driver's side of the motor. Mini people with the same motor call it the death rattle and there is a lot written about it. I think there are on-line recordings, eg YT.

[ps] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsweOBw59fQ

[SLC206]

The turbo motors have variable valve timing on inlet only, the non-turbos on exhaust as well. The cam drive wheels are on a thread, oil pressure driven.

The 147kW (and the 200) engines have variable exhaust cam timing as well, seasink.

[Specnut727]

G'day Seasink, Great info thanks, and seems that there's a lot more out there.
My noise isn't when cold, but a cyclic rattle which comes and goes over a 3 to 4 second cycle when hot and idling. UK guys say it's common, but I haven't heard of any failures.
Mine's in for it's 1 year service soon, so I'll ask for it to be checked.

[Gillzy]

Seasink, great info mate cheers! Will take a whole semester of neglecting Uni to read haha

Ive done my own servicing on my own cars but this Pug seems a little techno savvy for me I reckon. Mine makes a rattle for the first 5-10 seconds on start up then settles so have never worried about it.

Interms of parts, I have only found that forge motor sport does a few parts in regards to the pugs plumbing etc

Now because these engines are so similar, say I get a down pipe and turbo back exhaust from milltek for a THP175 engine, will they fit the GT?

Once my exemption comes through, (hopefully positive ill start on the plugs etc to try address my power issue).

Cheers,
Aiden