504 ti motor in 404 wagon
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 504 ti motor in 404 wagon

    Hi All
    I am thinking about putting a ti engine into a late 404 wagon
    Is there anyone who has installed a 504 ti engine in a 404 wagon who can report any difficulties doing this?
    Is there a way to retain the TI air cleaner? Any problems installing the return line or adding another inlet to the fuel tank?
    Thanks
    rob

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! 1pugnut's Avatar
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    Hi rob

    I fitted a TI motor in my 404 ute, the motor fitted in easy you won't fit the TI air cleaner in its to big.

    I had to fit a surge tank for the fuel because when there was about 1/4 of a tank or less every time I took a long left hand turn it would starve fuel causing the motor to splutter.

    In regards to the return line I fitted it next to the fuel sender as it allowed me to fit a brass fitting and use a nut to secure it in place.

    Other than a bit of fiddling it is a good convertion and I would recommend it.

    series 2 405 mi16
    205 si
    series 1 205 gti
    series 3 205 with a gti6 motor project
    1970 404 ute 504 ti motor project
    parts cars 2 205 si's 306 sedan
    2004 206 gti180

  3. #3
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    If possible fit a five speed gearbox, BA7/5 or BA10/5. Will give you the best of both worlds...more power and overdrive. Both can be sort from 505 wagons, if you find a surplus BA7/5 just remember who put you on to them. as I'm after on for my '74 504 GL (the trans tunnel is a tighter fit).
    Brendan.

  4. #4
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    Also better to put a 505 wagon diff in for better gearing.

  5. #5
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    Yes, much easier than finding and fitting a 5 speed.
    BA10 no good in a 404.
    I have a BA7/5 but from a Douvrin if anyone is interested in doing the changes needed to fit behind a push rod motor.
    Quote Originally Posted by ianrobbo View Post
    Also better to put a 505 wagon diff in for better gearing.

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    Why is BA10 no good in a 404 ?

  7. #7
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    BA 10/5 is difficult in 404 because of speedo drive interfering with rear gearbox mount as well as narrow tunnel.

    there is a nice 404 with ba7/5 that has a 505 tunnel fitted

    There is a green 404 ute with a Ti , had to move battery from engine bay under the tray and cut down the Ti air cleaner,
    still had very loud induction noise at 100k .

    a taller diff as GW suggested is necessary , unless you like lots of revs at speed

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    You wouldn't need a higher diff if you fitted the 5 speed, same goes with a higher diff then you wouldn't need the 5 speed.
    A bit more than the speedo drive, the back of the box is big and flat so the mount won't fit over it.
    Demannu has worked out a way of getting around it but don't know how NVH is affected, the 404s main claim to fame was its low road noise.


    Quote Originally Posted by alpine View Post
    BA 10/5 is difficult in 404 because of speedo drive interfering with rear gearbox mount as well as narrow tunnel.

    there is a nice 404 with ba7/5 that has a 505 tunnel fitted

    There is a green 404 ute with a Ti , had to move battery from engine bay under the tray and cut down the Ti air cleaner,
    still had very loud induction noise at 100k .

    a taller diff as GW suggested is necessary , unless you like lots of revs at speed

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all the advice. Will a 5 speed from an STI require much modification to fit?
    Is there a list of what the different diff ratios are somewwhere- I have a clunky 504 sedan diff in the 404wagon now.
    Rob

  10. #10
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    Just get the present diff fixed and leave the 4 speed as is, much nicer box than the 5 speeds anyway.
    You would lose the column shift as well, resulting in cutting then sealing a hole in the floor and having to manufacture a floor shift.


    Quote Originally Posted by robere View Post
    Thanks for all the advice. Will a 5 speed from an STI require much modification to fit?
    Is there a list of what the different diff ratios are somewwhere- I have a clunky 504 sedan diff in the 404wagon now.
    Rob

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! 1pugnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robere View Post
    Thanks for all the advice. Will a 5 speed from an STI require much modification to fit?
    Is there a list of what the different diff ratios are somewwhere- I have a clunky 504 sedan diff in the 404wagon now.
    Rob
    It can be done you wil eather have to replace the input shaft with one from a ba7/5 that fits the 2L or have the original one extended

    I have seen the original sti input shaft used with a 2 litre but it didn't fit in the spigot bush it just sat in front of it. That not how I would

    do it but it did work.

    And then you will need the 2 litre bell housing the 504 familale 4 speed box had the right bell housing as well.

    But it would be easer to find the right gear box.

    Regards jamie.

    series 2 405 mi16
    205 si
    series 1 205 gti
    series 3 205 with a gti6 motor project
    1970 404 ute 504 ti motor project
    parts cars 2 205 si's 306 sedan
    2004 206 gti180

  12. #12
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    Default 504 ti motor in 404 wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by 1pugnut View Post
    It can be done you wil eather have to replace the input shaft with one from a ba7/5 that fits the 2L or have the original one extended

    I have seen the original sti input shaft used with a 2 litre but it didn't fit in the spigot bush it just sat in front of it. That not how I would

    do it but it did work.

    And then you will need the 2 litre bell housing the 504 familale 4 speed box had the right bell housing as well.

    But it would be easer to find the right gear box.

    Regards jamie.
    Would a BA10/5 bell housing also fit? I would have thought they'd be similar to the BA10/4.
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

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  13. #13
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    Robere,

    I have a TI diff given to me by Robmac, which you can have for postage. I've cleaned it up a bit and Rob says it was good when removed from car. I also have some TI Kugelfischer stuff if you are interested.

  14. #14
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    504 ti motor in 404 wagon-imgp1031.jpg504 ti motor in 404 wagon-imgp1041.jpg504 ti motor in 404 wagon-imgp1045.jpg504 ti motor in 404 wagon-imgp1091.jpg504 ti motor in 404 wagon-imgp1100.jpg
    Tunnel has to be widened. I used a 505 SR radiator and a 205GTi air cleaner.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by robere View Post
    Hi All
    I am thinking about putting a ti engine into a late 404 wagon
    Is there anyone who has installed a 504 ti engine in a 404 wagon who can report any difficulties doing this?
    Is there a way to retain the TI air cleaner? Any problems installing the return line or adding another inlet to the fuel tank?
    Thanks
    rob
    I seem to recall that 404s were sold with TI motors, though probably only as private imports into Australia. There was one in Hobart some years back (many years back probably). Unfortunately it was rusty and was probably scrapped. From memory, they had "Injection" on the badge, similarly I think early 504 TI's had the same.
    1998 Peugeot 406 D8SV Manual
    1999 Peugeot 406 D8ST Auto
    2002 Peugeot 406 D9SV Manual
    1994 Peuegot 306 N3 Cabriolet Manual
    1994 Peugeot 306 XR N3 Hatch
    1995 Peugeot 505 GTI executive
    1976 Peugeot 504 Sedan - Now sold

    Over 60 Pugs in my time
    Gerry Mullock

  16. #16
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    Yes, 404 injection, 1600 with mechanically (rather than vacuum) controlled injection pump.
    TIs only appeared in 1973 or so, before that they were called Injections.
    Quote Originally Posted by pugnut1 View Post
    I seem to recall that 404s were sold with TI motors, though probably only as private imports into Australia. There was one in Hobart some years back (many years back probably). Unfortunately it was rusty and was probably scrapped. From memory, they had "Injection" on the badge, similarly I think early 504 TI's had the same.

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