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Thread: Peugeot 306 Temperature problem...

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Peugeot 306 Temperature problem...

    Hi!
    This is my car: 1999 Peugeot 306 1.6 manual. (With AC)

    This is the problem:
    I could really need some inputs, since i am stuck...

    The problem:
    -The temperature gets to hot. 100-110c
    -Driving up a hill makes the temp rise and goes slightly into the red.
    -Unplugging the fan coolant sensor so both fans operate at full speed does not help
    -If i open the bleeding screw on the hose to the bulk head i get a steady stream of water that follows the revs. (Rules out waterpump???)
    -I get a steady flow of hot air from the heater.
    -I do not lose any coolant

    The low speed fan that should kick in at 97c does not kick in before temp gauge shows appr. 105-107c
    High speed fan should kick in at 107,c but it does not engage. If i undo the sensor and put my heat gun right at it, it will make the high speed fan go.

    What i have done:

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    -Changed thermostat=no difference
    -Changed radiator + coolant= no difference
    -Changed temp sender to gauge and temp sender to fan ECU= no diffence
    -New earth cable from gearbox and battery= no difference
    -Cleaned cable connection the the fans=no difference
    -Tryed another (used) fan controll unit ECU (Bitron) = no difference

    I im stuck with this problem, so if anyone have any ideas on what could be wrong let me know :-)

  2. #2
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Have you considered a blocked exhaust?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Have you considered a blocked exhaust?
    I do not think thats the problem. The exhaust seems to work fine...

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    Does it get hot with normal driving or just up a hill?

    Via the aussiefrogs App
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cav91 View Post
    Does it get hot with normal driving or just up a hill?

    Via the aussiefrogs App
    It gets to hot with normal driving as well. But uphill is worse.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    Then as addo says it could be a partially blocked exhaust, or the cooling system not bled 100 percent.
    And you say it's a 1.6, in Australia we only got the 1.8 and 2.0. So what engine is yours, I see your not in Australia.

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    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    If all other avenues fail to fix the problem, it could be a blockage in the head that has built up over time.
    In this case, would require head removal and reco.

  8. #8
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    If the fans aren't engaging until a higher temp is displayed could it simply be that the gauge is wrong? A weak spring or something in the dial perhaps? I'd try sourcing an infrared thermometer and see what you're getting across the radiator and at various points along the piping.

    What about engine oil temp? Does that go up too?
    2000 306 GTi6 'Josie'

  9. #9
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    If it's running so hot does it use coolant? Also does it smell/feel particularly hot when you have put it into the red (according to the gauge)?

    What effect does switching the AC on/off have? Both fans should spin at low speed when the AC is switched on, even when engine temp is low. If it doesn't then you would really seem to have electrical problems. If the fan does switch on with air con, do you notice a difference in running temp with air con off or on?

    If it uses no coolant, doesn't smell/feel excessively hot, and is not affected much by air con off/on, then I would also question the gauge...

    Cheers

    Alec

  10. #10
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    Update:
    Just had the waterpump changed, since it had not been changed in a while. Just had to rule that one out.
    No difference!

    So i tried just for fun to run it without the thermostat. Then it gets cold!

    Results:
    Driving with old or new thermostat---engine runs to hot 100-110c
    Driving without thermostat-- engine runs cold 70c (close to 90c when driving in the city or pushing the engine)

    About the AC. I need to refill the system with gass, so i can not check if the fans start with the AC on.

  11. #11
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    Update!


    I have tried 3 different thermostats, but no change....


    I wanted to check if the gauge could be the problem.
    I bought a digital fluid thermometer and stuck it in the expansion tank.
    The thermometer shows quite an amount lower than the gauge.
    When the gauge shows 100c the thermometer shows around 85c. (If the water is 100c then it should have boiled right? It did not!)


    When the gauge showed almost 110c, the thermometer showed about 93c. Thats also when the low speed fan kicked in. (The low speed should kick in at 97c)
    Am i right to believe that the water temp around the faan sensor is a couple degrees higher than in the expansion tank?
    If so, i think my cooling system and fans work and that the gauge shows to high.


    Any thoughts?

  12. #12
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    See posts #8 & #9 . Good detective work anyway!

    Cheers

    Alec
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  13. #13
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiller View Post
    When the gauge shows 100c the thermometer shows around 85c. (If the water is 100c then it should have boiled right? It did not!)
    Not in a pressurised system, it doesn't
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    Regards,

    Simon

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  14. #14
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    Don't forget to check the temperature at the head as this is where the gauge on the dash reads the temperature from, not the radiator.
    There can be a large discrepancy in temperature between the head and the radiator depending on what the car is doing at the time or if there is a fault with the cooling system.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Not in a pressurised system, it doesn't
    When using the thermometer I had to take the cap of the radiator, so it was no longer pressurised. When the gauge showed over 100 and close to 110 without boiling, could it be a faulty gauge?
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiller View Post
    When using the thermometer I had to take the cap of the radiator, so it was no longer pressurised. When the gauge showed over 100 and close to 110 without boiling, could it be a faulty gauge?
    You have coolant in the system don't you? The additive raises the boiling point at atmospheric pressure. Water boils at 100C at sea level by putting it under pressure the boiling point rises.
    A quick trip out to the shed and this information is obtained;
    Nulon Ethylene glycol long life coolant raises the boiling point to 127C at 33% and to 132C at 50% when using a 105 kPa (15 PSI) radiator cap.
    Valvoline Anti-Boil Anti-freeze, which uses a slightly different mixture but is essentially Ethylene glycol, 33% is 124C and 50% is 130C using a 103 kPa cap. This is very old as I bought this at a clearing sale pushing 15 years ago. Unopened and will be used in the 504 after I fix the heater leak.
    The gauge and/or sender could be faulty. Replace the sender first and possible get hold of the factory output signals, inline Ohm meter or volt meter is used. Any competent auto electrician/mechanic should be able to do this.
    Brendan.
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  17. #17
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    Im leaning towards faulty gauge i think. Had the car tested at a garage today for petrol in the coolant, and the test was negative.

  18. #18
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    Anyone knows where the wires go from the temperature sensor to the gauge?

  19. #19
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    I still reckon you'd be better off with an infrared thermometer, as testing the coolant where you are is sort of right at the end of the system and doesn't factor in the other parts. On my GTi6 (which I'm 99% sure does have an over-reading gauge) I get readings with a thermometer that match the fans perfectly, ±2°C to account for the fact I'm measuring the external surface rather than the fluid itself.
    2000 306 GTi6 'Josie'

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityJayOne View Post
    I still reckon you'd be better off with an infrared thermometer, as testing the coolant where you are is sort of right at the end of the system and doesn't factor in the other parts. On my GTi6 (which I'm 99% sure does have an over-reading gauge) I get readings with a thermometer that match the fans perfectly, ±2°C to account for the fact I'm measuring the external surface rather than the fluid itself.
    Ill try to meassure with a infrared thermometer.

    I got hold of another instrument panel yesterday, it showes same readings....
    It could be that both gauges have the same problem, but what are the ods?

    The sensor works, so then it has to be that the signal gets more resistance than it should on the way to the gauge?
    Or am i wrong?

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    It's odd, your symptoms are exactly (on the hot side) what I have experienced a number of times, and each time replacing the thermostat fixed. it. The only difference with me was that I experienced the symptom of the car not going above 70 in cold weather, and overheating in hot weather. It was if the thermostat was opening early but not opening fully.

    I know you said you changed three thermostats, but from what you describe, it sounds like the thermostat is opening too late and not enough. If the problem goes away when the thermostat is not present then that rules out almost all other reasons IMO.

    When the thermostat is fully open there shouldn't be that much difference in the water flow to when it is removed completely. Have you had the thermostats tested to make sure they are opening fully at 89 deg? I'm assuming that with the thermostat removed you never went above 90deg even in the same conditions that you were previously seeing 110C.

    Tony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiller View Post
    Update:
    Just had the waterpump changed, since it had not been changed in a while. Just had to rule that one out.
    No difference!

    So i tried just for fun to run it without the thermostat. Then it gets cold!

    Results:
    Driving with old or new thermostat---engine runs to hot 100-110c
    Driving without thermostat-- engine runs cold 70c (close to 90c when driving in the city or pushing the engine)

    About the AC. I need to refill the system with gass, so i can not check if the fans start with the AC on.
    306 S16 1995 black
    Morris 1100 1965 green

  22. #22
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    Of the three thermostats i hav tried, one was non-original 89c, one original 89c and one non-original 82c.
    Driving with the thermostat that opens at 82c made slim/no difference.

    Cooked alle the thermostats, and to me it looks like they work ok.

    Driving without thermostat i only get above 90 if i am driving in traffic and in the city. Normal road 70c.
    WHen letting the car stand stil idling (without thermostat) the low speed-fans does not kick in before its close to 110c, same as with thermostat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    It's odd, your symptoms are exactly (on the hot side) what I have experienced a number of times, and each time replacing the thermostat fixed. it. The only difference with me was that I experienced the symptom of the car not going above 70 in cold weather, and overheating in hot weather. It was if the thermostat was opening early but not opening fully.

    I know you said you changed three thermostats, but from what you describe, it sounds like the thermostat is opening too late and not enough. If the problem goes away when the thermostat is not present then that rules out almost all other reasons IMO.

    When the thermostat is fully open there shouldn't be that much difference in the water flow to when it is removed completely. Have you had the thermostats tested to make sure they are opening fully at 89 deg? I'm assuming that with the thermostat removed you never went above 90deg even in the same conditions that you were previously seeing 110C.

    Tony.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    Ah ok. In that case then it's not the thermostat....

    You are absolutely sure the temp sender unit is ok? See if you can get a reading (with the IR thermometer) off the head beside the thermostat housing if you can.

    Might be worth trying some contact cleaning spray on the plug for the temp sender.

    Tony.
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  24. #24
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    The sensor is new. The old sensor was just the same


    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermute View Post
    Ah ok. In that case then it's not the thermostat....

    You are absolutely sure the temp sender unit is ok? See if you can get a reading (with the IR thermometer) off the head beside the thermostat housing if you can.

    Might be worth trying some contact cleaning spray on the plug for the temp sender.

    Tony.

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Wintermute's Avatar
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    OK I'm not familiar with the electrical characteristics of the sender...

    My guess would be that as the temp goes up the resistance of the sender unit goes down... If that is the case then a high resistance connection in the wiring won't cause it to read high... A multimeter accross the sensor (in ohms mode) when cold and when hot should verify if this is the case or not.

    I'm pretty much out of ideas. having two identically faulty temperature gauges seems pretty unlikely as well.

    Some of the previous suggestions about blockages in the head or somewhere else in the cooling system seem like the only other logical explanation.

    Tony.
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