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  1. #1
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    Default NSW Historic Rego

    Having a car on Historic Plates in NSW can be restrictive. At least in the Pug club.
    One might have imagined the aim of a club would be to promote the marque and celebrate the old stuff.
    It would not appear to be the case in NSW where the Pug club would not allow me to drive to a proper event in Adelaide because the event had not been advertised in the NSW pug mag.
    While I have duly accepted the decision of the umpires here, I still remain unconvinced that the decision is in the best interest of the Marque and the Pug community in general.
    Maybe the little Hitlers think that the concept was bending the rules, but maybe they could have interpreted the rules differently.
    The idea of running a Historic car is to show what these cars can do, to expose them to the public, to engage in a chat here and there, to allow the restorers to go here and there as long as they show respect for authority.
    As I say , I do respect authority, so I can't drive my 203 as planned to SA to go to a Sporting Car Club of SA event, simply because I missed the deadline to have it advertised in the club mag.
    Sorry guys, it seems dimwitted of you to stop this and I will be seeking another club with a more enlightened attitude.
    I'm thinking Hot Rod clubs could actually have a better outlook.
    Sad to think of all those restored Pugs unable to be driven because .......the dudes who interpret the rules think it's quite so straight and narrow.
    It really doesn't need to be this way. There are show and shines in any direction any day of the week.
    If we've done the hard yards to get a Historic vehicle on the road we should be entitled to drive it to any of these shows, not just what has been printed in the stupid Pugilist, a mag of ever decreasing interest.
    Get with it Pug Club, you really are a pack of petty bureaucrats.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I changed clubs for much the same reason. In my case I didn't have an historic plated car but the former club saw nowt wrong with the present system, whereas I'm keen for a 90-day rule in NSW. It's important to get "collectibles" out and about; this is how you link car enthusiasts back to the greater community.

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    I would have thought that 'booking' a place at the SCC of Adelaide event and having an email print out of that fact with you would more than satisfy any, err, interactions you may encounter on the roads to and from the event. Maintaining your own log/diary and carrying it with you would also assist.

    I know that isn't the gravamen of your post but may help you decide to attend the event anyway. Let's call it a roadie before you leave that particular club.

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    It seems we have a much more enlightened system with Vic club permits .You need to belong to a club ,but can drive the car any where you want ,on any day ,up to 45 or 90 days a year ,not just club events .

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    I want to make it clear. There are RMS (formerly RTA) rules that clubs HAVE to follow. An H plated car is an unregistered vehicle using public roads. Any owner using it without accordance to the RMS rules may face considerable penalties by police and the RMS, with consequent embarrassment and possible penalty to the host club.
    Last edited by rosspug; 13th July 2014 at 09:23 PM.

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    Can you copy and post the RTA rules? I tried to find them but couldn't.

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    I found this. It seems to me that it shouldn't be difficult for the original poster to contact both clubs and meet the requirements..
    Vehicle use
    Vehicles can only be usedfor events organised by their Club, another Club or recognisedcommunity orga

    nisations provided

    an o
    fficial invitation has been
    received
    an
    d
    documented
    by the Club i
    n
    the official
    mi
    nutes, or the official 'Day Book'.
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    It is not a question of the clubs opting to change to the Victorian 90 day log book system it is a matter of the CMC and other representative bodies lobbying the RMS to effect the rule change in NSW.
    We the committees of the individual clubs cannot just pick and choose what system we want.

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    Exactly, and while the CCCNSW supports the CMC's position (no change) I will remain a non-member. Ditto for the PCCNSW.

    I understand that an entry on a club's website by an authorised person (eg, secretary/webmaster or other office holder) can officialise an event or activity by a club member that involves an historic plated car, as it equates to a "Day Book".

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    This has all backfired, because of the predictable rorting that has occurred we look like having to get a roadworthy every year and modifications will be strictly limited.
    Bring back the old system I say.



    Quote Originally Posted by julian b View Post
    It seems we have a much more enlightened system with Vic club permits .You need to belong to a club ,but can drive the car any where you want ,on any day ,up to 45 or 90 days a year ,not just club events .

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    CPS changes Seminar 2014.pdf

    This is what I've got regarding the changes in Victoria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    Having a car on Historic Plates in NSW can be restrictive. At least in the Pug club.
    One might have imagined the aim of a club would be to promote the marque and celebrate the old stuff.
    It would not appear to be the case in NSW where the Pug club would not allow me to drive to a proper event in Adelaide because the event had not been advertised in the NSW pug mag.
    While I have duly accepted the decision of the umpires here, I still remain unconvinced that the decision is in the best interest of the Marque and the Pug community in general.
    Maybe the little Hitlers think that the concept was bending the rules, but maybe they could have interpreted the rules differently.
    The idea of running a Historic car is to show what these cars can do, to expose them to the public, to engage in a chat here and there, to allow the restorers to go here and there as long as they show respect for authority.
    As I say , I do respect authority, so I can't drive my 203 as planned to SA to go to a Sporting Car Club of SA event, simply because I missed the deadline to have it advertised in the club mag.
    Sorry guys, it seems dimwitted of you to stop this and I will be seeking another club with a more enlightened attitude.
    I'm thinking Hot Rod clubs could actually have a better outlook.
    Sad to think of all those restored Pugs unable to be driven because .......the dudes who interpret the rules think it's quite so straight and narrow.
    It really doesn't need to be this way. There are show and shines in any direction any day of the week.
    If we've done the hard yards to get a Historic vehicle on the road we should be entitled to drive it to any of these shows, not just what has been printed in the stupid Pugilist, a mag of ever decreasing interest.
    Get with it Pug Club, you really are a pack of petty bureaucrats.


    Being derogatory does not promote your case.


    con...

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    con
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvr View Post
    I found this. It seems to me that it shouldn't be difficult for the original poster to contact both clubs and meet the requirements.
    Vehicle use. Vehicles can only be used for events organised by their Club, another Club or recognised community organisations provided an official invitation has been received and documented by the Club in the official minutes, or the official 'Day Book'.

    It seems to me that this is where the problem lies - meeting the above RMS rules would have allowed Luthier to use the "H plated" car without jeopardising the rest of the club "H plated" vehicles. And, I cannot see where in the above rules there is any room for "interpretation".

    con...

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    With our old system it was the same that an event had to be in the club mag otherwise no go. But the clubs had the power to overide it with a book from AOMC and you filled it giving you permision to use it.
    A couple of examples.
    If the SA event was advertised in a Vic magazine yes you would be legal to go but if you drove there on the Sat for an event on Sunday and drove back on Monday you we illegal so therefore the club would issure a special permit.

    Also imagine driving all the way back from Adelaide and pull in your driveway and remembered you were out of milk for the coffe you've been hanging out for. Sorry your trip is over get another car to go back to the shop but if you stopped on the way home you were ok.

    For these reason you needed a permission from the club but this new system is excellent but alas as Graham says people are abusing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    This has all backfired, because of the predictable rorting that has occurred we look like having to get a roadworthy every year and modifications will be strictly limited.
    Bring back the old system I say.
    Bullshit ...

    What rorting .... How can you rort the system unless your not filling in a logbook ($700 fine anyone?).... You mean ....PEOPLE DIDN"T DRIVE THERE CARS DID THEY Shit no, don't tell me you saw someone that actually enjoyed there car

    Unroadworthy ?? Where Everytime it's a nice day I see bloody countless club permit vehicle owner .... Oh no ... DRIVING AND ENJOYING the car How dare they

    I've seen litteraly thousands of club permit cars cruising the road, not 1 of them would I have said shouldn't have been on the roads. Some of the street rods cars are pretty modified ....... But look at it from this aspect. The owners are enjoying them ............. Have you ever seen one in an accident or ever heard of one crash ..... No me neither, gee's they must be deadly bloody things

    Bring back that uselessly pathetic old scheme and I'll just park my cars back in the paddock and let grass grow through them............. 'Cos there's not a snowmans chance in hell I'm paying $100 a year for a car that can never legally leave the yard unless it's too a club run the other bloody side of melbourne. The old scheme was utterly pointless useless shit, fit only for people that liked to look at and polish there car whilst it was parked in a shed. Especially people that loved to have CONTROL over everyone... You know ... the painful assholes wanted to actively police everyone. All those sad poeple with no life that wanted POWER.

    Every tiem the suns out lately it's like driving around in a huge bloody town wide classic car run. Why in the hell would you want to change this fantastic thing. You get to mix with old pommy car owners, have a chat with an impala owner at your local Aldi, head upto the lake, spot an old fiat, have a chat with it's owner.... then spot an old HQ ... have a chat with it's owner.

    The only thing they all have in common. Everyone LOVES the club permit scheme, 'cos they can drive there car

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  16. #16
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    In NSW, there is still some variance in the way clubs apply the RMS guidelines.
    This is one example, another is annual inspection and signoff by Club representative (and whether this occurs on one Club Inspection day - which I personally think is not a bad thing) versus getting members to supply a valid pink slip. The Historic Declaration form allows for either method, so it is up to the club.

    The bottom line is that it is up to the club(s) how they interpret and apply and it would seem this person has not met their requirement in this instance. If you sign up to the scheme, you do sign up to abide by the rules prevailing at the time. The OP has stated he respects the "umpires decision". This should not degenerate into a mudslinging exercise against any particular club. He has the choice as does Addo et al whether they choose to partake or not.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post

    For these reason you needed a permission from the club but this new system is excellent but alas as Graham says people are abusing it.
    Who's abusing it If somoene is using it in-appropriately. Tell the police, it's there job to police the roads. You don't change something that's brilliant "because someone, somewhere might be rorting it ".

    I certainly hope they don't bring in Roadworthies. with the piccies and everythign required, you wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting a lot of pre-80's cars though. eg: Take an old Land Rover, they all leaked when new, how the hell do they expect them to be perfectly leak free and dry 40years later. Just try booking in something like a Citroen DS and CX and see how much fun you have.

    seeya,
    shane L.
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  18. #18
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    NSW RMS rules and clubs are here: http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/registrati...ubs_policy.pdf

    I noticed a couple of no-particular-make clubs in the Hunter, including one at Muswellbrook.

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    The donut van is one example, I am thinking of reporting this, very clear case.
    Another clear cut case but don't what to cause any problems here as he is a member of this forum.
    The big thing though is cars shown on TV with engines poking out the top of the bonnet, this has fired up the Police who have made complaints to Vic Roads about it.
    All I know is that I had zero problems with the old scheme, now I have to go through the hoops and spend extra money and time every year.
    Hopefully Rally Permits will be changed to allow driving to any motorsport event, I'm just waiting to be picked up for driving a caged car around the streets on normal reg.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Bullshit ...

    What rorting .... How can you rort the system unless your not filling in a logbook ($700 fine anyone?).... You mean ....PEOPLE DIDN"T DRIVE THERE CARS DID THEY Shit no, don't tell me you saw someone that actually enjoyed there car

    Unroadworthy ?? Where Everytime it's a nice day I see bloody countless club permit vehicle owner .... Oh no ... DRIVING AND ENJOYING the car How dare they

    I've seen litteraly thousands of club permit cars cruising the road, not 1 of them would I have said shouldn't have been on the roads. Some of the street rods cars are pretty modified ....... But look at it from this aspect. The owners are enjoying them ............. Have you ever seen one in an accident or ever heard of one crash ..... No me neither, gee's they must be deadly bloody things

    Bring back that uselessly pathetic old scheme and I'll just park my cars back in the paddock and let grass grow through them............. 'Cos there's not a snowmans chance in hell I'm paying $100 a year for a car that can never legally leave the yard unless it's too a club run the other bloody side of melbourne. The old scheme was utterly pointless useless shit, fit only for people that liked to look at and polish there car whilst it was parked in a shed. Especially people that loved to have CONTROL over everyone... You know ... the painful assholes wanted to actively police everyone. All those sad poeple with no life that wanted POWER.

    Every tiem the suns out lately it's like driving around in a huge bloody town wide classic car run. Why in the hell would you want to change this fantastic thing. You get to mix with old pommy car owners, have a chat with an impala owner at your local Aldi, head upto the lake, spot an old fiat, have a chat with it's owner.... then spot an old HQ ... have a chat with it's owner.

    The only thing they all have in common. Everyone LOVES the club permit scheme, 'cos they can drive there car

    seeya,
    Shane L.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Who's abusing it If somoene is using it in-appropriately. Tell the police, it's there job to police the roads. You don't change something that's brilliant "because someone, somewhere might be rorting it ".

    I certainly hope they don't bring in Roadworthies. with the piccies and everythign required, you wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting a lot of pre-80's cars though. eg: Take an old Land Rover, they all leaked when new, how the hell do they expect them to be perfectly leak free and dry 40years later. Just try booking in something like a Citroen DS and CX and see how much fun you have.

    seeya,
    shane L.

    What apartentley is happening is people doing illegal mods and there inspector passes them. Country car clubs are the worse. Story goes of an old holden with a v8 fitted and put on club plates so the owner could drive it to be finished off and that never happens. Years down the track and it's still got drum brakes.

    Totally agree about old cars. New gaskets were never oil tight. Imagine non boosted 4 wheel drums pulling up like modern stuff, just doesn't happen but RWC looks like the path they are going down.
    David Cavanagh

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    An aside, but Shane, I drove Landies for years, and they didn't leak oil at all, except for a transfer case oil seal on one occasion, and that got fixed pronto. If you kept the drums round they stopped pretty well too.

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    Actually 404 drums had incredible stopping power, just about lift the back wheels off the ground.
    Trouble is that was only on cross plies. Radial tyres and leading shoe drums are incompatible due to shudder problems.
    I always suspected this and it was proved a long time ago when a mate took the original cross plies off his near new Mazda Van, the brakes shuddered from that time on.
    The Thermostable 404 brakes had trailing shoes (in both directions which was a feat!) so avoided this problem, very expensive though and not trouble free so Peugeot eventually joined the mob and went disc.
    Graham



    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    What apartentley is happening is people doing illegal mods and there inspector passes them. Country car clubs are the worse. Story goes of an old holden with a v8 fitted and put on club plates so the owner could drive it to be finished off and that never happens. Years down the track and it's still got drum brakes.

    Totally agree about old cars. New gaskets were never oil tight. Imagine non boosted 4 wheel drums pulling up like modern stuff, just doesn't happen but RWC looks like the path they are going down.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Actually 404 drums had incredible stopping power, just about lift the back wheels off the ground.
    Trouble is that was only on cross plies. Radial tyres and leading shoe drums are incompatible due to shudder problems.
    I always suspected this and it was proved a long time ago when a mate took the original cross plies off his near new Mazda Van, the brakes shuddered from that time on.
    The Thermostable 404 brakes had trailing shoes (in both directions which was a feat!) so avoided this problem, very expensive though and not trouble free so Peugeot eventually joined the mob and went disc.
    Graham
    I must admit I've never compared them but I really doubt my 403 would stop from 60kph in the same distance as my 307. Plus if I did emergency braking 6 times in a row I don't think it would stop ay all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    An aside, but Shane, I drove Landies for years, and they didn't leak oil at all, except for a transfer case oil seal on one occasion, and that got fixed pronto. If you kept the drums round they stopped pretty well too.
    Funny, I'm on the land rover forums, and they reckon they oil weeped, the V8's always weep, there always wet under the gearbox, transfer case, both diffs............... I don't mean oil pouring out. But it's not unuaal to have "a drip or two" under them every morning. Guys that bought them new, said they did it when new.

    I know mine has a drip hanging off of them all. The only thing I'd call a proper leak is the rear diff input. It's slinging oil so it an obvious leak. If I put a new seal in it'll go back the "weeping" type leak rather than being dry no doubt. I like it, it's built in rust prevention.

    Oh hang on .... Your not talking modern stuff are you

    Oh yeah, I'm more than happy with the brakes on my old cars They have no problems stopping from just about any speed there capable of.

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    Would be interesting to compare, I remember stopping very hard in a 403 once when a dog ran across the road.
    Like the engines the brakes need to be working properly, these cars are a lot more capable than the average example would indicate.
    People nowadays would consider them underbraked due to the ridiculous amount of boost on modern brakes, one of the reasons anti lock brakes are mandatory, I think.
    Yes, they do fade no argument there.
    Sintered metallic linings will stop this but introduce other problems.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    I must admit I've never compared them but I really doubt my 403 would stop from 60kph in the same distance as my 307. Plus if I did emergency braking 6 times in a row I don't think it would stop ay all.

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