505 with 504 engine in it...
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  1. #1
    nJm
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    505 with 504 engine in it...

    As many of you know, I'm on the hunt for a good condition, manual 504 or 505 for under $3000. Well, in the current trading post there is advertised a manual 1982 505GR with a 504Ti engine in it. Apparently good condition and $3000.

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    Is it worth while going for this car, or should I stick to original spec pugs?

    Thanks
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Sounds like it could possibly be a good buy. The 504 TI engine is a good engine, although some parts are getting hard to find for the injection system. Might be worth buying a couple of spare TI engines.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  3. #3
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Also, when TI engines are running well they're great and quite reliable, but when they do have a problem they can sometimes be difficult to fault find. Atleast in Victoria there are quite a few people who know these injection systems quite well.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  4. #4
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    Nick,
    Go for the TI engine,sounds like the ideal concept to me, and will be far nicer to drive than the standard car. It should also have a better spread of usuable power then a STI or GTI.
    The Kugelfischer injection is extremely reliable MUCH more so than the horrid Solex TMIMA carburretor. This carby is a major reason for the low value of 505 nowadays.


    Regards, Graham Wallis

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hey ,
    I owned a 504 ti in NZ for about 4 years and never had any problems with the motor- the mechanical injection was fine- as long as you keep the injector oil level topped up.

    Just be wary of 504 Ti motors with the std 504 carb camshaft in it (they can be hard to locate in NZ)- as it makes it quite a bit slower- unfortunately you'll only know this if you have driven one beforehand....

    Go for it- they are good reliable motors with suprising amounts of grunt!

    Cheers Ben

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    should go really well !~

    I have an 81 GR here....which I was trying to sell with no engine...but I have a spare complete Ti setup....sounds like an awsome conversion to me !!


    Ben

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the standard 505 always needed something more than what they came with as most pugs over the years so the TI engine should do you well
    just keep in mind to keep the fuel filters clean and spark plugs in good check
    put an isolation switch on the cold start injector which is located at the rear of the log.you will find that this will aid you in hot starting as you can turn this injector off. they work off the starter not as the name suggests on cold starts only
    if you keep you plugs at 26 thou you won't have any trouble though.
    if you hear the engine "cough" change the ryco filter near the pump at the rear of the car ASAP or the car will "cough" more and eventually stop
    they are basically an engine that never needs any maintenance other than the normal. the only thing i wouldn't be too sure on would be the govm't regulations of having that engine in a later model car for pollution reasons
    i suppose if it stays registered you should never have any trouble but these engines were stopped as they didn't meet aussie standard ADR27A.
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  8. #8
    nJm
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    thanks Pugrambo, I know what you mean about the filters, the otherday I got stuck on the Hume Hwy in Pug505_Exec's 505GTi (his has the same fuel filter problem at the moment).

    I didn't realise the engine was discontinued due to not meeting Aussie regs.

    thanks
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    as far as i know the engine in the GTi6 306 was also stopped in this country for the same reasons or so i have been told anyway
    you would think that by now most manufacturers would have everything worked out as to what they can and can't put into a car
    or maybe the govm't keep clamping down a bit more every few years
    dunno
    just upsetting that everytime pugs get a good engine into a car they come down on them and tell them they can't run it anymore
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    As I understand it, Pugrambo, the Kugelfischer system 504 TI engine was dropped internationally by Peugeot by 1980. I don't think it had anything to do with ADR rules.

    Fully mechanical injection systems are more expensive to make and more expensive to service than EFI or KTronic type systems. It was cost, not pollution controls, that did this motor in.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  11. #11
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by Rod Hagen:
    <strong>It was cost, not pollution controls, that did this motor in.
    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    ..but in Australia the 504TI was discontinued in June 1976. ADR27A came into force in July 1976.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  12. #12
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by davemcbean:
    <strong>

    ..but in Australia the 504TI was discontinued in June 1976. ADR27A came into force in July 1976.

    Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>

    From what I've been told, it was too expensive for Renault Australia to bother adapting the TI engine to ADR27A.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    That makes sense Dave. I forgot about the difference in dates. One would guess though they would already have been having trouble in some other markets (US / California for example), who, from memory, had more draconian measures in place from an even earlier date.

    Peugeot never seemed very keen on selling the KF systems here . Don't think the KF 404's or XMKF1796 504's were ever sold here and the TI's never made up much of their sales either.
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  14. #14
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Rod,

    Yeah, they never sold the 504TI in the US due to the Californian emissions regulations. I think the strict regulations cam into force there around about 1972 and that's when the twin carb set up was developed (before that the US cars had the Solex 32/35 SEIEA). The US twin carb cars had a smaller venturi on the second stage carb than the Australian cars, and I think they also had air pumps. US twin carb 504s were rated as 87Bhp whereas Australian twin carb 504s were rated as 89Bhp.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  15. #15
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by davemcbean:
    <strong>The US twin carb cars had a smaller venturi on the second stage carb than the Australian cars, and I think they also had air pumps.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Oh, and the US cars also had a much more restrictive camshaft profile.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  16. #16
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I really must put the TI cam in my TI engine... mustn't I?

  17. #17
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Ray,

    I measured my camshaft collections' lifts with digital verniers yesterday. The XNA cam (1976-1978) has the same lift (0.260-0.270") as the TI cam I have (which has some worn off lobes). The other 1979 XN1 cam I measured has 0.245" of lift. These are the same as the specs I have in a book and it seems to confirm what Keith Pascal told me about the XNA cam being the same as the TI cam.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

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