Diff housing blow out
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Thread: Diff housing blow out

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Default Diff housing blow out

    Hey froggers.

    I dropped the box today to do the clutch. I knew the diff housing was cracked but was unsure why.

    On closure inspection it wasn't just the diff housing that was cracked but the crown wheel was missing a substantial chunk? How? No idea, I was hoping someone could enlighten me how this could have happened.

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    Luckily the two pieces missing didn't make it towards the pinion so it didn't wreck anything.

    Also the gearbox was fitted with a LSD. But I'm unsure what kind it is, so if anyone could tell me the brand and type that would be great!

    If anyone has a spare crown wheel and diff casing for sale let me know. Or please see the wanted /FS section.

    These are the photos.
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403070127.273649.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403070143.038277.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403070183.938074.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403070196.922544.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403070220.621536.jpgDiff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403070232.072065.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403070240.854924.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403070257.271751.jpg

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    That's nasty. Whatever the type of lsd it was it's a boat anchor now. Looks like a total box rebuild with new casing, secondary (output shaft), diff & matching crownwheel.
    What numbers are stamped onto the crownwheel? It'll be something like 14 62. Then count the number of teeth on the pinion to see if it matches the small number.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


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    Fellow Frogger! chez00's Avatar
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    It's a clutch/plate type diff - so not a Quaife. It's not a 3J either. May be Tran-X. I reckon the crown wheel is aftermarket, too, so the ratio would be different to anything anyone would have laying around. The standard ones do not have those weight reduction holes. That is very unusual damage to the crown wheel. From the photos it appears the LSD will be ok though once unbolted from the crown wheel? You may want to consider getting it properly rebuilt - it would be a shame to throw those goodies away. See my post in your for sale section for why you can't just swap things around so easily.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
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  4. #4
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    Its hard to tell from the pic but ,that section showing the chunk out of the crownwheel,looks shinny as if its been moving there before it finally let go ,my guess is it was damaged when the last diff blew up and wasnt picked up when the slippery diff was fitted ,pugs

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Well I've driven the car around the corner to the our other driveway (we live or a corner block) and the LSD definitely works still. No noises either. I bought the car from Sydney here not that long ago and was told that the gearbox was broken. I'd be really interested to know the history of the car because on the front of the owners manual was this (see Photo). Someone once loved it then it was left to rot.

    The car was also fitted with a Magnex back box and an exhaust with no cat. The interior was rat s##t when I got it, so I've replaced all the seats with re-upholstered S1 seats. Nice and clean.

    I can't find a matching crown wheel on the internet anywhere. The weight reduction holes are interesting I haven't seen anything like it. The closest thing I can find was this (see attached photo). The brand is BACCI ROMANO and they do final drive ratio sets. Maybe ill contact them and ask for another crown wheel . Might count the teeth now
    .Diff housing blow out-205manual.jpgDiff housing blow out-da014_4884740098.jpg
    Last edited by pug-life; 18th June 2014 at 08:58 PM.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Just got a price on the Bacci Romano LSD....$2196.35 before delivery. Yikes!

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Seen lots of LSD diffs but that is a first.

    What is the car being used for? There are cheaper alternatives to that diff if you are going to replace it.

    I have rear covers if you need a new one.

    Clean the inside of the main gearbox case and have a look on the side closest to the speedo gears. There maybe some metal removed from the case to make the diff clear the case
    Adrian Wuillemin

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Wuillemi View Post
    Seen lots of LSD diffs but that is a first.
    What is the car being used for? There are cheaper alternatives to that diff if you are going to replace it.
    I have rear covers if you need a new one.
    Clean the inside of the main gearbox case and have a look on the side closest to the speedo gears. There maybe some metal removed from the case to make the diff clear the case
    Adrian, are you saying you've never seen this type of LSD before?
    Whats left of the oil in the box has metal in it I think. So its kind silver and has a really really fine grit.
    The crown wheel has a 65 teeth and the pinion has 16 teeth.
    Thanks Adrian, ill keep it in mind!

    Julian

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    The chunk out of the crown wheel is a due to a poor/faulty material. It should have been billet but looks more like a pressure casting.
    The inner surface is quite grainy whilst the outer surface has an even 'sheen'. It's a cheap way of getting a reasonable product without the customer asking too many questions.....Normally there is a massive failure and you buy a total replacement as CSI can't piece together enough evidence.
    Brendan.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Lambeth This may be the J Lambert?
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  11. #11
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    Ratio is 1.6 GTi or early 405 8 valve.

    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    Adrian, are you saying you've never seen this type of LSD before?
    Whats left of the oil in the box has metal in it I think. So its kind silver and has a really really fine grit.
    The crown wheel has a 65 teeth and the pinion has 16 teeth.
    Thanks Adrian, ill keep it in mind!

    Julian

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Default Diff housing blow out

    Somebody paid big dollars for a 4.06 cwp!

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  13. #13
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    The way the LSD is bolted to the CW looks a bit like the 4.06 ZF diff that was in our car (your old 205). We could never find another crown wheel with the right bolt pattern.

    Jim

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    Would that have been the Gary Harrowfield/Simon Crane rally car?
    Gary did mention fitting a lower diff ratio.


    Quote Originally Posted by pug303 View Post
    The way the LSD is bolted to the CW looks a bit like the 4.06 ZF diff that was in our car (your old 205). We could never find another crown wheel with the right bolt pattern.

    Jim

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Would that have been the Gary Harrowfield/Simon Crane rally car?
    Gary did mention fitting a lower diff ratio.
    Nope, I use to own that. It was Peugeot 4.06 and Quaife.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  16. #16
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    I forgot we had a PT engine but the ZF diff was already in the 205 which came from Robertson and had been a race car.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    So whats the advantage of having a 4.43 FD (405 mi16) over a 4.06 FD (1.6 GTi) in the 205 mi16. If I'm going to do a swap around I want it done all at once and right. Probably should have done this when I was doing the 16v 205, but funds were the underlying factor at the time.

    Getting a crown wheel re-drilled to suit the LSD...is that a possible option. Or is that uncharted waters?

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    This LSD seems to be a complete set. Where by there's a recess in the crown wheel that LSD bolts to. As said earlier, if one bit brakes it's all meant to brake. Hmm....what to do

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403332210.569260.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403332226.753769.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403332265.887333.jpg
    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403332288.952770.jpg

  20. #20
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    The Mi16 box will pull out of corners better in 2nd gear but if you are just using it as a street car this is of no particular advantage.
    On the other hand the GTi box has closer ratios than the Mi16, which needs bigger gaps between gears to arrive at proper gearing in
    5th for the higher speeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    So whats the advantage of having a 4.43 FD (405 mi16) over a 4.06 FD (1.6 GTi) in the 205 mi16. If I'm going to do a swap around I want it done all at once and right. Probably should have done this when I was doing the 16v 205, but funds were the underlying factor at the time.

    Getting a crown wheel re-drilled to suit the LSD...is that a possible option. Or is that uncharted waters?

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    So whats the advantage of having a 4.43 FD (405 mi16) over a 4.06 FD (1.6 GTi) in the 205 mi16. If I'm going to do a swap around I want it done all at once and right. Probably should have done this when I was doing the 16v 205, but funds were the underlying factor at the time.

    Getting a crown wheel re-drilled to suit the LSD...is that a possible option. Or is that uncharted waters?
    My car has Mi16 gearing with 4.06 diff. I find the gearing perfect. Will do 0 -60ft at drags in 2.207s. Will also pull 5600RPM in 5th (If you are game/mad).

    The 4.43 diff would help me a little in some motorkhana tests, though I think the extra revs in gears would drive you mad on a road trip (In comparison the 4.06).

    pug-life likes this.
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  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! chez00's Avatar
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    What a turd of a design.
    1988 205 GTi XU10J4
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  23. #23
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    Can you turn the crown wheel over and take another picture. It looks like a standard gear that has additional holes drilled in it.

    I think the piece that is broken presses into the crown wheel.

    Don't mess up the clutch pack order.
    Adrian Wuillemin

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Wuillemi View Post
    Can you turn the crown wheel over and take another picture. It looks like a standard gear that has additional holes drilled in it.

    I think the piece that is broken presses into the crown wheel.

    Don't mess up the clutch pack order.
    I thought the same thing until I saw that the piece that the bearing attaches to is actually a part of the crown wheel itself. And is not the other end of the LSD.

    Diff housing blow out-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1403484357.991302.jpg

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