Lift it out or drop it out?
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  1. #1
    mlb
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    Default Lift it out or drop it out?

    I've got a few jobs to do on the Mi16 (Series 1). Namely timing belt, clutch, strut top mounts, and possibly drive shafts and gearbox linkages.

    So here's the question. Considering I'm doing the strut tops, is just as easy to drop the whole lot the bottom, or am I still better off lifting the engine out the top and doing it that way?

    Any tips and tricks to do this with a minimum of tears would be appreciated.

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    Matt
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    I've just finished doing a remove & refit of the engine & box in my 1.9. I jacked the car up to give 650mm clearance under the radiator support panel/front bumper & lowered down then walked it out.
    With the gearbox attached the whole unit will sit at the 30 inclination without toppling.

    *No need to remove the subframe.
    Last edited by pgti6; 15th June 2014 at 10:44 AM.
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Definitely drop it all out with the 650mm measurement as Jeff said. Take off the inlet manifold and alternator as well.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys,

    I looks like I'll be dropping it out the bottom.

    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6 View Post
    *No need to remove the subframe.
    Considering I'll be doing the strut tops anyway, and to just make things a bit simpler, would it be worth just removing the subframe anyway?
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    If you remove the subframe you'll need to do a wheel alignment afterwards but it will be easier to remove the struts. It depends whether you have a balljoint removing tool to crack the lower control arm & track rods 'tho if you leave it in.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6 View Post
    If you remove the subframe you'll need to do a wheel alignment afterwards but it will be easier to remove the struts. It depends whether you have a balljoint removing tool to crack the lower control arm & track rods 'tho if you leave it in.
    Wheel alignment doesn't really worry me as I'll be putting new tyres on it when I'm done.

    Plus I'm not sure what else may need doing - bushes etc. So I'll have a think about the subframe thing.

    Is there any need to remove the radiator, or is there enough room with it in situ?
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  7. #7
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    To do those jobs why would you remove the motor all can be done with engine where it is Regards fish

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    To do those jobs why would you remove the motor all can be done with engine where it is Regards fish
    I'm no expert, but I'm not sure how you can do a clutch in situ?

    Plus the extra time to remove and replace the engine would be well worth the pain and suffering of trying to do the rest of the jobs with the engine in the car.
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    If the gearbox is to be removed by one person, it's a lot easier to drop the motor as well. Maybe if Matt is built like a gorilla he could manhandle the box off with motor intact.

    Rad can stay but as Peter says, remove the inlet manifold & alternator. I use the 2 lifting hooks on a spare cut down manifold with a chain to the gearbox to get proper weight balance.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'd be doing a lot more while it's out and cam belt is off.

    ie
    front and rear mains seals
    cam seals
    removing the heater bypass tube
    all the filler/breather pipes
    water pump
    etc.

    and if you're removing the subframe and struts, the steering rack will be dangling by the steering column. So you may as well give that a pull through while you're at it. Where does it stop!

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  11. #11
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    If only doing those jobs box out for clutch no drama not disturbing exhaust cables and wiring a plus the rest just good servicing but I understand that people pull motors out for servicing but seems excessive and a lot of work I'd do pistons and liners out with engine in place in 405 and 205

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6 View Post
    Rad can stay but as Peter says, remove the inlet manifold & alternator. I use the 2 lifting hooks on a spare cut down manifold with a chain to the gearbox to get proper weight balance.
    Thanks. That will make it easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    I'd be doing a lot more while it's out and cam belt is off.

    ie
    front and rear mains seals
    cam seals
    removing the heater bypass tube
    all the filler/breather pipes
    water pump
    etc.

    and if you're removing the subframe and struts, the steering rack will be dangling by the steering column. So you may as well give that a pull through while you're at it. Where does it stop!
    Thanks Peter,

    I was considering doing those jobs also. Especially the heater bypass as that's been a pain in my backside since day one and is currently cracked - the tube, not my backside. I've also got one of your offset cam keys to fit.

    Regarding the steering, I was planning on disconnecting the flexor and dropping it all off together. Although I'm not sure if that's even possible.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    If only doing those jobs box out for clutch no drama not disturbing exhaust cables and wiring a plus the rest just good servicing but I understand that people pull motors out for servicing but seems excessive and a lot of work I'd do pistons and liners out with engine in place in 405 and 205
    Oh I understand all that, and it makes sense. If it was just one of the jobs, then I'd do it in situ, but I think with the range of jobs I have planned, they would be much easier on a stand. Having already done an Mi16 belt with the engine in the car, it's not something I want to repeat unless I really have to.
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  14. #14
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    And fair enough buddy out with it prob put new mounts in while out eh I took the top engine mount cast weight and bracket off and made a steel one that reduces the amount the engine can lift think it helps

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    And fair enough buddy out with it prob put new mounts in while out eh I took the top engine mount cast weight and bracket off and made a steel one that reduces the amount the engine can lift think it helps
    Thanks. I might give that some thought while I'm at it. I'll certainly be checking out the mounts though.
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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    For me, I still prefer out the top. I have done the gearbox off with the engine in position. It isn't nice and you need to pull the engine onto a weird angle to get the box off and back on. I'm close to a gorilla, and it helps.
    racing 405
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  17. #17
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    Removing speedo drive makes it much easier to remove the gearbox -otherwise it is a [email protected]@##&&^^%>><<<!!-- '' of a job!!

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