205 gti compensator dead?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Default 205 gti compensator dead?

    hi guys

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    was flushing the lines today with some methylated spirits as I just wanted to clean the entire thing out. Front R and L and Rear L were fine, kept bleeding until I saw pure spirits coming out, but when I was doing the Rear Right it was bleeding a bit of fluid, then just jammed all of a sudden. My sister was depressing the brake as the stupid one-man brake kit needed one man to keep it over the nipple otherwise it blasts right out.

    Is this a sign that the compensator went bonkers? Another thread online points towards this.


    Another question: I read posts here that go into detail about why Cu brake lines are illegal and whatnot, but does that also mean that brakelines branded as such, (i.e Automec) are also not allowed? If that's the case what's the next best thing? This 205 will not see a track, I just want something to last

  2. #2
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It's more likely a rear flex has failed. I'd replace them if more than fifteen years old. Australian Standards don't worry me, so long as it's TÜV or US DOT, or BS rated for vehicular use, I can't see a real problem.

    With hardlines, make sure not to confuse pure copper with CuNiFe type lines. You can buy most 205 brake bits cheaper than DIY-ing.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Don't have a straight answer, but I would disconnect the line at the other end (MC) and try to see if I can push some fluid back the other way. I guess a long-ish piece of tubing lifted at say window level and attached to the bleed nipple would have enough gradient to send fluid dripping at the MC end.

    If still no joy, I would try compressed air at both ends. If that doesn't work, yep, I would say the compensator is pretty much stuffed.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 7th June 2014 at 07:28 PM.
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    ok so adams right, the flexi was a bit seized up. Spent all day taking out the flex hoses. Funny thing though, when I tried squirting stuff down it nothing was coming out but then I got back to it a couple of hours later, tried squirting stuff and it was fine. Anyway I've decided to replace all the rubbers with steelbraided stuff.

    Note to anyone else do NOT buy supatool flare spanners they are worth more in their weight as steel. Went and got a toolPro kit and that was pretty decent. I should invest in a ratcheting flare i think.

    three questions:

    1) For the steelbraided hoses why do both the Hel and Goodridge kits contain 6 hoses? I only took out four, that was just one at each wheel, I haven't checked inside the bonnet yet, but... where are the other flexi hoses?

    2) I sort of twisted a hardline from mains that connects to the rear splitter, but managed to untwist it back to its original state. It was a twist along its length and not perpendicular to it.
    I decided only to replace the flexi stuff as I didn't really want to fork out even more money for the copper stuff as the Automec was like $150 or whatever a kit - should this be fine? I dont know what material the current hardline stuff is, but this should be fine i hope?

    3) anyone got a pentagonal socket for the god damn bendix caliper or know where I can grab one locally? I spent 10 minutes trying to fit all my sockets on there before i realised it was one side less. I literally got my vernier out to measure the nut size, got a socket for that size only to miserably fail and scratch my head.

  5. #5
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    You can buy the five sided socket from Fleabay, I think Draper or Facom.

    Six flexes are required for four-wheel disc brake cars; there are two in the front legs, one from the rear beam frame onto each rear arm, and one from the trailing arm onto the caliper.

    I've bought HEL and Goodridge. The latter from David Dent as one of his many Ebay usernames, the former from someone else. Quality is even but the HEL has stainless end fittings. David was better with the TÜV certification in the box. I generally recommend ordering black; it looks stock if you have quite large or open alloy wheels.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I generally recommend ordering black; it looks stock if you have quite large or open alloy wheels.
    Cheers Ado, makes sense now. I have drums hence 4 only.

    I was going to go for white or some bright colour only cause its easier to catch leaks. I dont think you can see anything through my pepperpots. In fact every respray I plan to do will be following this kind of pattern.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    ok so ive cleaned as much of the calipers as I could be bothered to right now, will be removing the pistons at work tomorrow as we have compressed air there, and as I dont have the pentagon socket with me yet I hope that it can actually be removed without the need to remove the caliper support, either way its just 1 weeks wait.

    Naturally I should look for a smooth piston surface, but will those scratches around the surface and seal lip be a big deal? I've never conditioned a brake caliper before, I know what I need to do its just a matter of really inspecting that cylinder. The only rubber seals that looked shocking were the slider pin ones, the piston seal looked ok but I'm servicing the whole thing for good measure.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    ok so heres the thing.

    When I took the calipers out i had to push the pistons in in order to remove the pads, so it clearly wasn't seized at the time.

    Now however, compressed air, WD40 in between the piston/cylinder, inside the bleeder and the inlet isn't doing anything. I can push it in and push it out probably less than 1mm and i can hear it kick up when I blow compressed air, but like I said 0.5mm at the very most. Then I push it back in with a vice, 0.5mm again. WD40 has been soaked in the things for at least 2 hours now, I might keep trying what I'm doing and see if that 0.5mm goes up and up.

    on youtube the guides were so simple, infact you could even pry them up with your hands if you're strong enough

  9. #9
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    You need hydraulic pressure to recover the pistons. This is much more than your 100PSI. Reconnect the caliper to a brake line and pump the pedal cautiously until you can wiggle the caliper loose. Wrap it in rags while doing this, in case it either fires out rapidly or cocks in the bore, squirting fluid out one side.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Or just put a block of wood (thin) in the calliper before applying pressure.

    If you need parts for these, I have a set of these callipers sitting around for no good reason you can have for the price of postage.

    If I were you however, I would go 306 (front) brakes.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    do you mean a 306 GTi-6? or just a stock 1.8 306?
    Im not sure if either would mean I need 15" wheels, something I don't want to have to change to just to get a brake upgrade. The guide on 205gtidrivers is confusing as hell.

    The Series 1 and 2 GTis ARE 1.6 GTis, engine, FD ratio and and cat are the only difference.
    Also, the only thing you need to do to get excellent brakes as DTRVL has confirmed is to fit S3/or base model 306 (any 8 valve from 94 to 97 will do, I can get some and send them to you if that is a problem) calipers.

    Graham
    Found this of yours: 205 GTI front brake upgrade will go through it fully later but it seems as if everything i've thought about my 1.9 so far is correct graham says that the S1 and S1.5 are basically Si's with a larger engine. And so any upgrade means i have to change the hub - which as far as I understand will add more weight!

    Also i got a quote from a local guy willing to do my lines at $55 a hose. But it seems that the HEL ones are about $160 shipped and goodridge $140 shipped (this is for a 1.6GTi only because those have 4 hoses, all the 1.9 ones are 6 hoses and $220 my car only has 4 hoses even though its a 1.9 i think they ignored all 87 GTis in this) which is pretty damn annoying as I dont know if the 1.6 hoses are going to be the right length etc.


    I might take you up on your offer, it'll be a while before I get fluid back in my lines, seal up the lines so I can use higher pressure to kick it out.
    Last edited by lion5; 11th June 2014 at 07:31 AM.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Done! got the bastard out. Turns out the compressor line at work I used was a safety, so it shuts itself off if it gets some backpressure. Used a stronger non-safety version and after a good hour of WD40 etc it came out.



    205 gti compensator dead?-imag0446.jpg
    Now i'll take some photos tonight but there are minute scratches around the surface of the piston. That one there is like 1mm long i cant really tell how deep (a fraction of an mm) but it really depends how far it scored the anodized surface. The cylinder as well has tiny scratches. How big do they have to be before i reconsider my options? I've just buffed them with some metal polish and got rid of most of the crap.

    if I need new pistons i'm honestly going to go for a new hub/caliper assembly as the cost of the rebuild kit + pistons is just not going to be worth it. Whoever worked on it before tried using pliers to pry it out from left to right as I can see sideways grooves.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I've got a couple of pistons or five out and in good nick if you want them for postage price. Mine are off a GTI and an Si. What car do you have, I didn't realise we might be talking about an Si? They're all the same as far as I can tell but I can measure if need be.

    If your car is an Si, the brake upgrade might be a bit more involved than I thought.

    Yeah, I found that site confusing as hell too.

    Not sure what 306 parts you need, but I am sure it's not a GTI6. I think the rest of the models (run of the mill). I bought the upgrade callipers s/h here, so not sure what they came off. Seller didn't know either but they fit straight in.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    no its a 1987 1.9 GTi DFZ
    but it has rear drums, and front discs. 4 hoses in total. The pistons are a 48mm diameter set, this is for the bendix type caliper. Height is 49mm.

    The rear hubs are going to be difficult to remove as I want to work on the rear drum assembly as im sure its just as old as the front. I'd replace the drums if it meant i didn't have to change the hub and therefore change my 14" wheels to 15" ones.

    Now the reason im confused is because every "1.9 GTi" labeled steel braided hose has 6 sets, nto a single one comes with 4, so its as if they ignored the '87 1.9 GTi and caste that off as the same group as Si. That's what I meant by mine is just like an Si except with a bigger engine.

    Edit: and the 6 set pack cost about $200 to $230, while the 4 set are $140 to 160. I was quoted $220 to have 4 done locally.

    I'll whip out my macro lens shortly.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I think Addo just told you earlier, the drum rear cars only have 4 hoses whereas the disc rear cars have 6.

    The pistons I have are out of an 87 GTI and a 1992 Si.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 11th June 2014 at 08:16 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  16. #16
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Yes, the item to look for is the 1.6 GTi set.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    battery was dead so I used phone camera, but these are good enough to see what im talking about. Alot of the scratches there you cant feel with your finger, but you can with your nail easily, especially that scoring on the inside of the cylinder.

    I'm well aware shlitz i'm just saying they have 500 different sets, and even have the set supposedly for my car
    HEL Brake Lines For Peugeot 205 1.9 GTi Non-ABS (1987-1994)Lines:
    6



    Mine is a NON-ABS 1987 205 1.9 GTi yet there it's 6 lines, that was the one I was originally going to order before I realised I had 4,


  18. #18
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I would look for better calipers. They've been quite abused. Sleeving and new pistons would solve the problems but you are probably better with new ones from Budweg.

    http://www.helperformance.com.au/hel...1984-1992.html

    Your required flex lines.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Your callipers are well and truly knackered.

    My offer stands, if you want them, I've got good callipers and pistons and they're free if you pay the postage.

    I would pursue the 306 avenue though. It's not that difficult and the only problem is you don't know what model you need to get the callipers off and you need some Si (or later GTI) hubs. I am sure someone here would know, or you could just take a punt on some run of the mill 306 callipers (I did). You risk a few bucks (not many s/h) but you have the chance to do away with those pesky pieces of merde.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Cheers will give the local guy a call and see if he can adjust his prices. If that's the case I might need to consider a brake upgrade then.
    Thanks shlitz: i was considering this as well, as it would be easier to find wrecked 206 XR or 306 1.8s. All these models use 247mm discs exact same ones as the 205 (DBA273) so offsets etc are identical. So I know i can fall back on these.

    The only thing holding me back from the 266 or 283mm discs/caliper setup is that for these i need a new hub and or 15" wheels which I simply do not want to do. I already have two sets of 14" pepperpots in great condition, why would I want to go 15. There have been posts here and on gtidrivers that 266 with the gti138 calipers will JUST fit in the 14"s now if I can be bothered i could well try my own 206 gti setup this weekend. I'm not quite sure if i have the 283 or 266 discs as I haven't replaced them yet and so haven't measured them but i'm pretty sure they'd be the 266mm.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Hi guys.I just grabbed a set of Si hubs thanks to cam.

    Atm he has the 1.9gti hub (bigger spline) and 206 calipers with 266mm discs. Now, I tried fitting my 14" pepperpots and they just scraped the edge off the caliper: no go by the looks of it.


    I'm not yet home but will I experience the same thing with this hub when I try my own 206 calipers and discs? I've read various accounts of the 14s fitting nicely with this setup.



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  22. #22
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    You can judiciously shave many calipers with grinding.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lion5 View Post
    Hi guys.I just grabbed a set of Si hubs thanks to cam.

    Atm he has the 1.9gti hub (bigger spline) and 206 calipers with 266mm discs. Now, I tried fitting my 14" pepperpots and they just scraped the edge off the caliper: no go by the looks of it.


    I'm not yet home but will I experience the same thing with this hub when I try my own 206 calipers and discs? I've read various accounts of the 14s fitting nicely with this setup.



    Via the aussiefrogs App
    Told you.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Ok I read wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Also, only the 266mm brakes will fit under a 14" wheel, and even then you may need to grind away some flashing/casting marks on the inside of the wheel.
    damnit!

    Ok so just theorising here, what if I add a kind of 5mm offset shim, it feels as if that's all i need to do, offset the wheel out by 5 or so mm because the edge of that caliper was just grinding. Seeing as the original setup was for a hub that had a larger offset, it seems like adding a shim or fat washers would be all I need to do. Not only would that mean no shaving is required, but also no adjustment required on my alignment configuration.


    In anycase, I'll probably have to do this for any brake-upgrade I work on now, seeing as I have Si hubs, i'm ready to switch calipers and rotors.

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