Peugeot 405 electric windows
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  1. #1
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    Default Peugeot 405 electric windows

    I'm working on a 1995 405 SRDT that hasn't been used for 5+ years. Both the back windows and the front passenger window won't work using either of the switches for the each window.
    The driver's window is OK.
    The wiring diagram I have does not show rear electric windows but it does show 2 relays that appear to be used only by the passenger window (I'm not good at reading wiring diagrams though).
    The fuses are OK.
    Are the same relays used for the front passenger and both rear windows?
    Are they part of the windows electronic control unit located on the back of the front door trim?
    Is there some other common point of failure of the 3 windows?

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    Last edited by Irma; 13th June 2014 at 10:39 AM. Reason: wrong year should have been 1995 not 1991

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Put ear to door if any stirring heard when switch applied then c r c the crap out of everything inside probly wake the window slide operation up if not then check voltage going into door loom if powering then More crc a subtle slapping to door near armrest may help probly just stuck regards fish

  3. #3
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    405 Electric Windows

    Master lock switch not on ?
    From memory this only controls the rears.

    Alain
    Last edited by Alain; 6th June 2014 at 07:13 PM.

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    douse the passenger side door work from the drivers side switch ,as you can only use one switch at a time they are somehow interlinked so if ones stuffed the other wont work ,me thinks, i have had those switches apart to replace the globes ,flip the toggle out and give the contacts a clean ,may make a difference pugs

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    Hi Alain. Your memory serves you correctly, the isolating switch does only override the operation of the rear window switches.

    Hi Pugwash, The only switch that works is the drivers window. I have had the passenger window switch on the driver's door out and the connections look great. I'll have a go at the switch on the passenger door tomorrow.

    Hi Fish, I'll check for any stirring/clicking tomorrow and probably pull the trim off the drivers door to check the voltages at the controller and switch.

    Thanks to all, Ian
    Last edited by Irma; 6th June 2014 at 09:24 PM.

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    If you are pulling the card off try connecting the motor directly to the battery, reversing terminals for up and down ,i think it uses spade connectors ,at least that will eliminate the motor and drive ,lam lam has wrecked a few of these in bris ,also fish .pugs

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    Before pulling door trims off i would hit all of the switches with some CRC 2-26 or other electrical grade spray.
    Carefully prise off or lift the rocker button to get in to the contacts . I have come across this issue before,especially when the vehicle has been unused for sometime.
    Hope this helps.

    Alain

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    Thanks Alain. The CRC (WD40 actually) did the job on both the switches for the front passenger widow but it struggles a bit on the way up. Raising it with the LH door switch is faster than with the RH door switch so I'm guessing that there's some voltage drop somewhere.

    None of the switches for the rear windows work yet. I've tested the switches on the front of the centre console but can't see any power on any of the terminals.

    Back to the wiring diagrams for now. The Haynes manual doesn't show the rear electric windows for the later models but it does have them on the early model. That should be enough to get to the next step though.

    Thanks for your help.

  9. #9
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irma View Post
    Thanks Alain. The CRC (WD40 actually) did the job on both the switches for the front passenger widow but it struggles a bit on the way up. Raising it with the LH door switch is faster than with the RH door switch so I'm guessing that there's some voltage drop somewhere.

    None of the switches for the rear windows work yet. I've tested the switches on the front of the centre console but can't see any power on any of the terminals.

    Back to the wiring diagrams for now. The Haynes manual doesn't show the rear electric windows for the later models but it does have them on the early model. That should be enough to get to the next step though.

    Thanks for your help.
    If the lockout button was in the 'lock' position for a long period of time, douse that with whatever cleaner you're using (WD40 I think you said?), and operate that switch several times. IIRC, that switch supplies the battery+ for the rears. That, or bypass it by way of a jumper across the switch, then check for power.

    The window switches have one battery input, two ground inputs, and two window motor outputs. No relays. The switches 'flop' according to what direction you want the motor to travel.
    Last edited by Hotrodelectric; 9th June 2014 at 10:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    If the lockout button was in the 'lock' position for a long period of time, douse that with whatever cleaner you're using (WD40 I think you said?), and operate that switch several times. IIRC, that switch supplies the battery+ for the rears. That, or bypass it by way of a jumper across the switch, then check for power.

    The window switches have one battery input, two ground inputs, and two window motor outputs. No relays. The switches 'flop' according to what direction you want the motor to travel.
    I have CRC'd the 4 rear window buttons and the lockout button and checked their operation with a multimeter. They all appear to be OK, but there's no power input to any of them. I ran power directly to port 3 on the switches and they operate the window OK.
    Power should come from fuse 30 which I've also tested, the indicators use the same fuse and they work as well.

    The owners handbook says fuse 30 goes to "rear electric windows relay". Are you sure there's no relay?

    Thanks, Ian

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irma View Post
    I have CRC'd the 4 rear window buttons and the lockout button and checked their operation with a multimeter. They all appear to be OK, but there's no power input to any of them. I ran power directly to port 3 on the switches and they operate the window OK.
    Power should come from fuse 30 which I've also tested, the indicators use the same fuse and they work as well.

    The owners handbook says fuse 30 goes to "rear electric windows relay". Are you sure there's no relay?

    Thanks, Ian
    Let me backtrack a little before my loud mouth overloads my brain. The relay you are looking at is probably a power relay. It's possible your problem is there. Normally, there wouldn't be a relay with that style (electrically) of switch. That's the assumption I was working from, it appears I was wrong.

    You're doing your testing with the ignition on? Do you know where this relay is? Once again, I'm assuming, but the relay should be a power in and out (30 & 87), a power trip (either 85 or 86, this is possibly from your lockout switch), and a ground. Try jumpering the terminals for 30 and 87, see if you get a response. From there, you should be able to determine the relay trip and ground. After that it's a simple thing to try another relay, or trace back and find if either side of the lockout switch or wiring has failed. Your diagram should tell you what side does what.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Let me backtrack a little before my loud mouth overloads my brain. The relay you are looking at is probably a power relay. It's possible your problem is there. Normally, there wouldn't be a relay with that style (electrically) of switch. That's the assumption I was working from, it appears I was wrong.

    You're doing your testing with the ignition on? Do you know where this relay is? Once again, I'm assuming, but the relay should be a power in and out (30 & 87), a power trip (either 85 or 86, this is possibly from your lockout switch), and a ground. Try jumpering the terminals for 30 and 87, see if you get a response. From there, you should be able to determine the relay trip and ground. After that it's a simple thing to try another relay, or trace back and find if either side of the lockout switch or wiring has failed. Your diagram should tell you what side does what.
    Testing for power at the switch was done with the ignition on. When I jumpered the power to check the operation of the switch and motor I came straight from the battery.
    I don't know where the relay is. The Haynes manual says most are located behind the fuse box. I did try removing the fuse box but although I can release it and move it a little, it doesn't want to come out far enough to see behind it.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irma View Post
    Testing for power at the switch was done with the ignition on. When I jumpered the power to check the operation of the switch and motor I came straight from the battery.
    I don't know where the relay is. The Haynes manual says most are located behind the fuse box. I did try removing the fuse box but although I can release it and move it a little, it doesn't want to come out far enough to see behind it.
    Haynes. I used to think they were pretty good. Here in the US they were better than nothing for many cars. But, damn, saying "most are located behind the fuse panel" is generic enough to be useless. That's a very fragile game of wild goose chase. /rant off.

    I found this, it might be helpful: Peugeot 405 >> Wiring diagrams
    Yes, it's a Russian site, but my spyware/malware program didn't start firing off flares, so there's that.

    I'll try to poke a bit more and actually ascertain where the relay is. If you feel that you can pull it, just remember to disconnect the battery first. You might wind up pulling the entire panel assembly, then separate the fuse box from the relay panel.
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  14. #14
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Is it series 2 or series 1.5, the car in question?

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    [QUOTE=Irma;1262933]Thanks Alain. The CRC (WD40 actually) did the job on both the switches for the front passenger widow but it struggles a bit on the way up. Raising it with the LH door switch is faster than with the RH door switch so I'm guessing that there's some voltage drop somewhere.

    Hi Irma
    If the windows are struggling to move and you don't want to break the lift mechanism i would suggest assisting the lowering glass by pressing with your hand (depending how tight it is, don't force it) and lubricate the channels (tracks) with graphite powder or silicone spray in the lowered position, then raise and lower several times whilst continuing to assist the glass by hand.
    If you break the mechanism you will have a fiddly job to repair.
    Due to the amount of time the 405 has remained unused combined with the origonal type of usage (could be solo with only drivers window used) the other 3 may be as new and full of grime.
    If this is the case the door trims should be removed and lubricate all the sliding parts etc,disconnect all the electrics and spray the connections and also the central lock. and locks.
    Your problem appears to be lack of use
    Electrical grade of spray is required really, not WD 40,although that is better than nothing

    Alain

  16. #16
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    I had already found those wiring diagrams thanks, they're the same as in my Haynes manual.
    Not sure if it's series 2 or 1.5. The build date is Feb 1995 if that's any help addo.
    I'm not over working the windows until I get them properly lubricated, just trying to get the switches going at present. Same goes for the door locks which are a bit sticky still. Is CRC electrical grade?
    Thanks all for your ongoing help and advice. Much appreciated.

  17. #17
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    It's a series 2, they came in mid 1993.

    There is no such thing as a '1.5' only a Series 1 and 2.
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  18. #18
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    In the first post, the car is a "1991 405 SRDT", in Post 16 it's become "Feb 1995". As you've owned a variety of 405s, you would remember the evolutionary stages of the "Series 1" that included different thermofan controllers, different alloy wheel sizes, possibly different subframe bolt sizes (although that IIRC came about pretty much bang on the Series 2 launch) - as a cumulative measure of progress many people do apply the "1.5" designation to 1990-onwards cars before the Series 2 dash and exterior styling arrived.

    Alain's distinction of the type of CRC spray was unfortunately overlooked, 5.56 is like WD-40 and neither is really suited to electrical applications except when there's no alternative.

    As to the core problem, I would suggest looking at the harness interconnects behind the kick panels, if a direct feed of 12V into the relevant pins gets the rear windows going nicely it's a plug/switch issue upstream of the door.

    Diagram 13 on the Russian site should do you.
    Last edited by addo; 11th June 2014 at 10:56 PM.

  19. #19
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    Thanks addo, I never noticed my error in the first post about the year, it's definitely a 1995. I'm out of town for several days now so won't get back to it until next week.
    Ian.

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    Default 405 D70 Window Issue

    Alain's distinction of the type of CRC spray was unfortunately overlooked, 5.56 is like WD-40 and neither is really suited to electrical applications except when there's no alternative.

    The type of CRC (electrical grade) was clearly stated in post 7 as CRC 2-26
    Their clearly is a difference

    Alain

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