405 performance against 205
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Thread: 405 performance against 205

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! deltone's Avatar
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    Default 405 performance against 205

    How does a 405 mi16 handle and perform compared to a 205 GTi?

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    Dont worry about engine performance, i may put a t16 engine in it which would solve any under power issues. I am really after handling, performance and feel.

    never driven a 405 before.
    205 GTi T16

    205 CTi

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Having owned both and being an old coot now I prefer the 405. I think of it as a 205 with manners. 205's are great with go kart handling and nimbleness whereas the 405 has all the brilliant handling characteristics without the character flaws of it's little brother.
    addo likes this.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  3. #3
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It's the thinking man's Three-Series.

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    Fellow Frogger! dhaw's Avatar
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    You can lift a rear wheel in an MI16...much fun car!

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhaw View Post
    You can lift a rear wheel in an MI16...much fun car!
    Even more so in a 205. We take most tight corners on three wheels.

    405 vrs 205 is a like big ship small ship in big sea. The 405 smooths out the bumps. It's a better car on the undulating sweepers, but the 205 is better in the tight, twisty stuff.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 405 performance against 205-friprac_0235.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Thats a great shot of Owen there Pete! Car looks good. ADrian, get it back on the road!

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Plenty of three wheel action by everyone!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 405 performance against 205-friprac_0246-copy.jpg   405 performance against 205-friprac_0535-copy.jpg   405 performance against 205-friprac_0836-copy.jpg   405 performance against 205-healey_0534-copy.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Fellow Frogger! deltone's Avatar
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    Cool thanks for the info!!
    205 GTi T16

    205 CTi

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Plenty of three wheel action by everyone!
    The designers realised early on what a weapon the 205 would be for club motorsport. They went the extra to provide so that the chassis allowed for three wheeling, this saves on tyre wear....allegedly! and makes the 205 one of the very few FWD cars that actually has predictable oversteer.
    Brendan.

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    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    excuse the stupid question i know nothing about racing, but what is so special about three wheeling. I see people talk about it all the time as if three wheeling is the mark of a good car (and or driver)

    Wheel Lift | Morse Measurements

    i tried reading this, and its quite confusing and technical.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Not that much. It shows an unloaded corner of the car either under power (front inner wheel - centrifugal force and inertia combine to give a resultant net force that basically loads the rear outside wheel, hence the car rolls back and leans out) or a really tight cornering car (rear inner wheel off the ground, this time the same forces combine to load the front outer wheel). That article rambles on too much mixing what causes wheels to lift with how to combat lifting whilst not presenting the basic physics behind it which quite simple.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    I have reduced this with my rally 205, no ARB on the front and an Si one on the rear.
    The wheels stay on the ground a lot more of the time now and the car is working a lot better.
    Still less body roll than a standard GTI due to uprated springs and torsion bars.
    I would use a 205 for gravel and 405 for bitumen.
    Probably unlike others I've found the 405 to be quite violent at the limit, on gravel or bitumen, and the 205 to be very predictable and easy to handle but not with the slow unassisted steering.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by lion5 View Post
    excuse the stupid question i know nothing about racing, but what is so special about three wheeling. I see people talk about it all the time as if three wheeling is the mark of a good car (and or driver)

    Wheel Lift | Morse Measurements

    i tried reading this, and its quite confusing and technical.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts lion5's Avatar
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    Yes but that's what is confusing. It says early on that if you get wheel lift you're doing something right. Then it goes on to say how to combat it...

    Why is it a good thing?

    Via the aussiefrogs App
    Pour le peuple colonisé, la valeur la plus essentielle, parce que la plus concrète, c'est d'abord la terre: la terre qui doit assurer le pain et, bien sûr, la dignité.

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Whatever yours can do.....

    dhaw likes this.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

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    Quote Originally Posted by lion5 View Post
    Yes but that's what is confusing. It says early on that if you get wheel lift you're doing something right. Then it goes on to say how to combat it...

    Why is it a good thing?

    Via the aussiefrogs App
    Well from a safety perspective it's not good, it means you have less grip overall...not that a tyre without much load is providing significant grip anyway. Generally you need stiff suspension and a particular setup to get a wheel to lift.

    Why is it good? Well with a good chassis lifting a wheel means you're right on the limit, most likely steering with the rear and having a bucketload of fun. Well, most of the time anyway. I regularly cock the inside rear just pulling into my local Subway on account of the firm suspension and front-heavy weight distribution.
    2000 306 GTi6 'Josie'

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    Yes, happens all the time with driveways.
    My GTi always hangs a rear wheel into my drive at home, the rally car keeps all 4 on the ground.
    My Mi16 almost got stuck (front wheel off the ground) when driving out of the local Shell servo, SRi drives out with no problem at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityJayOne View Post
    Well from a safety perspective it's not good, it means you have less grip overall...not that a tyre without much load is providing significant grip anyway. Generally you need stiff suspension and a particular setup to get a wheel to lift.

    Why is it good? Well with a good chassis lifting a wheel means you're right on the limit, most likely steering with the rear and having a bucketload of fun. Well, most of the time anyway. I regularly cock the inside rear just pulling into my local Subway on account of the firm suspension and front-heavy weight distribution.

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    I've had the front churning air on occasion too...haven't got stuck yet fortunately! I thought it was a phenomenon restricted to chopped JDMs until it happened to me.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Most of the time I have no idea my 205 is on three wheels. You certainly can't feel in coming off/on. After a supersprint session, someone usually say how incredible it is, after following me around. It's really no big deal. If the car is setup properly, you just drive it to the limit.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    3 wheeling? pffft.



    Realistically its just the shortcoming of the design Peugeot used in the rear suspension of these cars. I always found 405's way more violent on the limit too, longer wheelbase increasing the weight shift length? (+shagged beams.) 405 doesn't even come close sorry.
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    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Most of the time I have no idea my 205 is on three wheels. You certainly can't feel in coming off/on. After a supersprint session, someone usually say how incredible it is, after following me around. It's really no big deal. If the car is setup properly, you just drive it to the limit.

    My 206 is the same. I was equally surprised about some of the RWD cars lifting front wheels through corners last weekend.
    Not the best picture.
    405 performance against 205-rnd-1-my-improved-prod-144.jpg
    Bathurst______2 57.22 Sandown_______1 35.29
    Mallala_______1 22.90 Phillip Island____1 56.41
    Winton_______1.43.90 Collingrove_______38.08
    The Bend_____2 21.96

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    1000+ Posts PugMonkey's Avatar
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    I had my first long drive of an 405 Mi from the Gold Coast to Port Macquarie on the weekend. Just fabulous on a long trip. The trip took 5 Hours and I was still quite fresh at the end of the run. I do the same trip in the wife's Honda CRV and I have back pain, legs hurt and generally stuffed. Having one of each would be the go....again!

    Fish was trying to get me to keep the revs under 4500, but didn't want to.....
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

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    [QUOTE=

    Fish was trying to get me to keep the revs under 4500, but didn't want to.....[/QUOTE]

    Why??

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    Fellow Frogger! deltone's Avatar
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    pgti6 I saw your build thread on 205 gti drivers forum! Preety Epic! Love your work mate!
    205 GTi T16

    205 CTi

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    205,405 and 306 have such great safe chassis. Case in point with my 306GTI6 coming back from Cairns once year .... I slowed to 60 in a small QLD coastal town after traversing some rolling hills and dales for about 100km and at 100kmph.. The car started to squirm around. Uh oh... flat..so I pulled to the side of the road.The rear passenger tire was destroyed, Smoking hot and holes in the side walls. Bugger to remove and the thing is I had been travelling at highway speed, on rolling curving roads, up hill and down dale and had not noticed. Go figure!

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltone View Post
    pgti6 I saw your build thread on 205 gti drivers forum! Preety Epic! Love your work mate!
    Thanks. It's a work-in-progress with still more to come.
    cam85 likes this.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

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