New 407
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 5 12345 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 117

Thread: New 407

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! boodek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Wodonga, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    343

    Default New 407

    The new 407 is pretty public now, and in my opinion pretty ugly.

    http://www.peugeot-avenue.com/modele...res/407_v2/en/

    About the only angle that doesn't look too bad is the rear 3/4 view:






    While the wagon just looks like a bad take on a Lexus:




    It may be one of those designs that grows on you, though.

    Advertisement
    Ben.
    _ _________________ _
    A very fun 1997 manual 406 ST
    A lovely 2006 407 HDi Executive

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,269

    Default

    boodek
    i'm afraid warts grow on you
    that is just another example of how pugs are now no longer pugs
    it all started with the 307
    there was a little in the 206 that started the trend but the 307 was all out non pug
    all they have done now is continue the trend
    i call it the 07 disease
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Mitch Mi16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    568

    Default

    Yeah definately something that would have to grow on me before i bought one of those.... The 205, 306, and 405 were such great looking cars.. In my time that is... the 206 sometimes is something to be desired... needs something extra.. but there are some dope 206's out there...
    THE MAD PUGGA

    1989 405 Mi16 (PGT-405)

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Saru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    138

    Default

    It certainly is *ahem* interesting... The front 3/4 isn't bad either. Maybe it's a "3D" shape - it looks better in the metal? The extreme looking front overhang is pretty awful.

    BMW fans have Chris Bangle to blame - who's to blame for the 407?
    '94 405 Mi16

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Posts
    246

    Default Blame

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas
    BMW fans have Chris Bangle to blame - who's to blame for the 407?
    Gérard Welter, Centre de Style Peugeot, La Garenne-Colombes.

    I believe his term for this new Peugeot "look" is Blancmange-surfacing

  6. #6
    rek
    rek is offline
    1000+ Posts rek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic
    Posts
    1,388

    Default

    That mouth has to go. Apart from that, I don't mind it at all.

    It's almost getting to the point where aftermarket bodykit vendors now have an opportunity to provide tasteful bodykits to modify otherwise gaudy-from-the-factory cars

    Any reviews on how it drives? If they make a "407 Mi24" type sport model the mouth issue may well be forgiven
    Peter
    2008 Saab 9-3 1.9 TiD Sportcombi
    2011 Volvo C30 DRIVe 1.6D

  7. #7
    dbc
    dbc is offline
    Member dbc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    56

    Default

    I don’t especially like the 407. It looks like something Ford would produce (no offence to any Ford drivers reading this). Then again, I haven’t really liked much that Peugeot has released recently, including the popular 206 and 307. Perhaps I am a French car snob.

    I agree with pugrambo, most new Pugs are now no longer Pugs. Which leads me to the question, ‘What is the classic, or quintessential, Peugeot?’ The model most frequently mentioned when a misty-eyed Pug enthusiast says “If only I hadn’t sold my …” or “If only I had bought one when I had a chance …” appears to be the 404. The Renault 16 has a similar status amongst Renault enthusiasts. I have especially fond memories of the family 504, which for me combines superior (for the 1970s) ride and handling with classic Peugeot style. I am struggling to define what it is that makes a Pug such a great car to drive. When my brother, first drove my 405, he said it even smells like a Peugeot. How esoteric can you get?!
    1969 16TS
    1995 405 SRI

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    770

    Default



    Is it just me or this car quite large? and what's with that front overhang? (ie everything beyond the front wheels)



    Understated interior, could be worse, lotta buttons there.....

    I don't mind it, it looks better than a 307 in my eyes.....not saying much I know...

    Knowing Peugeot, this shape will be around for some time, it should age gracefully.....

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,635

    Default

    Judging by all those buttons, I hope it has an inbuilt Bluetooth mobile phone handsfree system (use *any* Bluetooth mobile, handsfree, as soon as you sit in the car with your phone in your pocket). It looks like it probably does. The 2004 model 607 has it.

    Derek

  10. #10
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    5 acres @ Ourimbah on the Central Coast.
    Posts
    10

    Default 407 "styling" (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by M. Tippett
    Gérard Welter, Centre de Style Peugeot, La Garenne-Colombes.

    I believe his term for this new Peugeot "look" is Blancmange-surfacing;)
    [FONT=Arial]

    My catch-phrase for BMW since the 'new' 7 series:
    BMW. Buggered by Bangles,
    but who to blame for the 407 ? Strikes me there were 2 "design" teams: 1 for the B pillar forward & 1 for the B pillar back &, at no time during the "design" work did they ever talk to each other or show each other what they were doing !!

    I don't mind the "whale mouth" & 3/4 front view, BUT, have you EVER seen a car with SO much front over-hang !?! It looks totally out of balance & nose-heavy.

    Like someone was recently quoted: The problem with the French car industry is that it's run by the French.
    Last edited by ray kelly; 23rd January 2004 at 04:08 PM.
    Le Ned


  11. #11
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    melb
    Posts
    4,379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    boodek
    i'm afraid warts grow on you
    that is just another example of how pugs are now no longer pugs
    it all started with the 307
    there was a little in the 206 that started the trend but the 307 was all out non pug
    all they have done now is continue the trend
    i call it the 07 disease
    You've taken the words right out of my mouth.
    Peugeot seems to have included itself in the mainstream of automotive design. It's definetly the type of thing holden or ford would come up with in two years time.

    It's quite obvious that most cars in the PSA group today, retain little if any of the individualism & rare character which have made both Peugeot & Citreon the "unique" cars that they once were.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by purrr-geot
    You've taken the words right out of my mouth.
    Peugeot seems to have included itself in the mainstream of automotive design. It's definetly the type of thing holden or ford would come up with in two years time.

    It's quite obvious that most cars in the PSA group today, retain little if any of the individualism & rare character which have made both Peugeot & Citreon the "unique" cars that they once were.
    Gee, this is a bit rough.....

    First of all i'm just talking aesthetics.....not performance/handling/anything else

    Peugeot are traditionally quite conventional with their sedan/car designs (coupes obviously not included in that comment) over the years....none of them are especially "unique", rather just clean, usually, well proportioned, well detailed, excellent examples of a standard/conventional shapes/designs.....

    What's so incredible about the 306 design, for example?
    It's just a cleanly detailed very conventionally proportioned hatchback.....
    Same with the 205, the 505 apart from minor nose and tail details is a very conventionally styled sedan, the 504 was a little unusual with it's boot but otherwise pretty ordinary....the 404 had an even more derivative and ordinary design for it's time.....

    We'll never see something like the Megane II (love it or hate it) or CX (ditto) from Peugeot they just don't take those kind of risks.

    Whether you like or dislike their modern designs......I think they've been more brave and in some ways unique in recent years with the 206 and 307 than maybe ever before (not counting coupes), the 206 is really a standout design (in the aesthetic sense, once again) in small hatches....there isn't too much it could be mistaken for......it is a modern small Peugeot

    Maybe it's these more modern "brave" designs you guys just don't "like" (more likely not used too).....rather than Peugeot totally losing the plot and all their individuality in the process.....

    Ford and holden may well come out with similar shaped and styled cars, but they lack the finesse to detail them as well as Peugeot often do their designs.......

    Eitherway, to me, Peugeot is more about the way they go about moving you from A to B.......the fact that they are usually styled nicely is a bonus

  13. #13
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930

    Default

    I found the general reception in Europe/UK to be fairly good. Sure, the gaping mouth divided opinions (I personally don't mind it, reminds me of the 50s Ferrari GP cars), and it seems to be here to stay in Peugeot styling, as it is present in the 307, 406 Coupe, and upcoming 107 and 207 going on the concept sketches.

    I read in a british magazine (nice big 3 page write up on it) that Peugeot did the styling in-house, and that everything else was compromised around the styling as they really wanted it to look like this (well appart from the front overhang which was needed to pass upcoming pedestrian safety requirements). This means getting in and out of the car can be awkward for tallish people in both the front and rear.

    It is still unknown whether it has double-wishbones front and rear, or just front with a new multi-link setup at the rear. Either way it should handle pretty well. It is also meant to have different steering setups designed for each engine varient (1.8L through to 2.7V6 HDI). There is a new (6 speed?)Aisin Warner automatic gearbox (yay!) for the more powerful engines. They had to bring this in to deal with the 400nm of torque the 2.7L V6 HDI generates.

    It certainly looks far more interesting and prestigeous than the 407's other sales-rep/family cars: Mondeo, Vectra, Passat, Laguna, C5, Superb, Avensis. And no matter what it looks like, it is guaranteed to sell well, as all previous big Peugeot's have before it (well, except the 6-oh series)
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  14. #14
    Member GTIrally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    66

    Default

    personaly i like the "mouth"

    But awwwww that overhang. take an awsome handling car like the 205 and what is it that is obvious?? there is very little infront of the front wheels and very little behind the rear wheels. Yes i know that it is a hatch but all that over hang has got to have an adverse affect on handling.

    but only a test drive will tell!!

    Ahh 'Peugeot', the drivers car! Why drive anything less!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,269

    Default

    peugeot up untill recently have pretty much always had the wheels as close as they can to each corner of the car
    it's only now with the 07 disease this seems to have gone out the window
    check out any of the pugs 206 and earlier and see what i mean
    even the 604 which can be a bit of a barge has the front wheels damn close to the front of the car and the rears aren't badly placed either remembering this is a luxury family sedan designed in the 70's
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    74

    Default

    The 407 is ugly fugly. I thought my 604 (Moscovitch) looked bad enough,
    but I think this 407 takes the cake, the Pug maker has lost the plot just like Ford Aus did with its AU and maybe Peugeot may suffer a similar sales disaster. I would never buy this Pug.

    This is very sad as I was once a very enthusiastic Pug fan. I recall establishing the Peugeot Association of Canberra in 1979. Pugs then were excellent cars that provided an excellent option for most Australians until Peugeot went front wheel drive. I think FWD is ok for smaller cars, but RWD is more suitable for larger cars, in terms of driving satisfaction, towing etc. The 405 looks like a RWD but it's a dreaded FWD. Anthing since has FWD written all over it.

    The 407's front overhang reminds me of the look of early large American FWD's - very distastefull. I wonder whether it pitches up and down because of the extra weight over the front wheels. Suspension engineers have always encouraged wheels positioned as close as possible to each corner to maximise handling and ride comfort.

    Stylng wise I like the 206 and 307 and the 307cc looks good. But thats it.

    Is the 407 pretending to look like a Masa ?

    I'd like the new 608 - but only as a rear driver with bubbling V8 or raspy V6 or even a throaty straight 6. FWD - forget it.

    Cheers ...... Nick

  17. #17
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Hills Region , Sydney
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Well one thing is for sure , It doesnt look like the 406.

    i have this feeling that it will one of those cars that you see in photo's and you are left asking questions. Then you see it in the flesh and it has an instant appeal.

    Id be interested in a few things more then what has been mentioned earlier in this posting. Someone mentioned handling and steering. That , being a mainstay as to what Peugeot lives by , will be interesting considering the styling. The windnoise over the rear window will also be of interest.

    The major points im keen to make are:

    1) It will be interesting to see how its priced. As we all know here , our $ has risen quite some way and ive not seen any reduction in current cars. So this will be worth looking at.
    2) Cost of parts. Insurance premiums arent cheap , and arent getting cheaper. Those parts that make up the front end (lights , bumper , grill etc.), and , the rear . Look like they might be costly.
    3) What engine variants we get
    4) Will they charge for metallic paint like some dodgy car makers. When all of us know that metallic paint these days can be manufactured at the same cost as non.
    5) what they are intending to charge for the premium equipment. Stereo + Phone system ...etc

    All in all , from what i can see of the photos , i dont mind it at all. Looks different from other cars and thats half the goal. My wife prefers the wagon.

    Now , must go , back to smacking that damn monkey !!!!

    Regards
    Phil
    Last edited by TestySpice; 24th January 2004 at 12:25 AM.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,664

    Default

    My God the French can be stupid at times.
    What's wrong with paying Pininfarina some money and getting the cars pretty; like the 205, 405 and 406.
    The 406 was a pretty car. Boring interior, and boring engines. Things they coulda done to complete the package were never done. But that is the boring old current Peugeot. I am driving a new BMW 325 at the moment and tonight I drove my wifes old Mi16 to the shop. Which car is better to drive!! The 405.
    Yet, from there ....... jeez I won't crap on too much. But Peugeot make me cross.

    The 407 will sell in France and the poorer or more bizarre countries in Europe, but if Peugeot think they can export that Elephant Turd 'en masse' they got another thing coming.
    Yet another mid to large Peugeot export failure. Will they wonder why????

  19. #19
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Default

    Ahh, one of my mega replies - 'tis what you get when you have to reply to a thread's worth of posts in a single post.

    Quote Originally Posted by boodek
    About the only angle that doesn't look too bad is the rear 3/4 view
    The view of the sedan from its rear is its best view, it looks quite smart from that angle IMHO. Like the Megane and Mazda 3 sedan, it doesn't have much metal between the top rear corner of the rear door window and the rear window, not a fan of that.

    My pet hate is the feature shared with the 307, those little front quarter windows. They don't belong on modern cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by boodek
    While the wagon just looks like a bad take on a Lexus
    I prefer the SW's design overall to the sedan.

    Quote Originally Posted by boodek
    It may be one of those designs that grows on you, though.
    I'd agree. I certainly don't think it's a disaster like some of the Bangle mangles, but on initial inspection, the design isn't as 'balanced' as previous efforts. When the 406 was launched, I remember thinking it was a very smart looking car. Even today, it still looks reasonable.

    As I've said previously, I don't think you can apply 206/307 small hatch (just look at the side of the car) styling to a large family sedan, it just doesn't work as well - the side is my least favoured view of the 407. For this reason, I think the SW is more successful from an aesthetic perspective.

    My parents will probably look at a 407 come replacement time for the S70.

    Quote Originally Posted by DTwo
    Is it just me or this car quite large?
    Everything is certainly growing, just look at the size of the largest discs available on the 407 - 330mm!

    Here are the 407's dimensions compared to the 406.

    Length 4.676m +78mm
    Wheelbase 2.725m + 25mm
    Width 1.811m + 46mm
    Height 1.445m + 33mm.

    I'd love to know how much it weighs.

    These dimensions should really be of no surprise. Cars are becoming bigger and bigger (especially becoming heavier and longer), just look at the Mazda 3. At 4.42m long, it's longer than the 405. The only car I recall launched over the past 12 months, which is shorter than its predecessor is the Volvo S40, and well it's a whopping 3cm shorter (but taller, wider and heavier).

    The height increase is rather modest compared to the 307 vs 306, but again this is unsurprising given the class the 407 competes in (notice how few tall boy designs there are in this class compared to the smaller classes). Cars in the D segment generally are already tall enough not warranting huge height increases, unlike those in the C and smaller segments. Increasing height makes the cars much more spacious for tall people, and that extra height is more useful in the smaller cars than the larger cars from a packaging perspective.

    Useless fact of the day. According to a German magazine, the sedan has a boot capacity of exactly 407l That's rather small given the car's size though.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    Judging by all those buttons, I hope it has an inbuilt Bluetooth mobile phone handsfree system (use *any* Bluetooth mobile, handsfree, as soon as you sit in the car with your phone in your pocket). It looks like it probably does. The 2004 model 607 has it.
    Bluetooth is available.

    I thought a caption below a picture of the centre console in one of the German magazines was quite honest. "Confusing: more than 60 buttons". Bear in mind that fancy centre console is for a top spec car with the RT3 Nav/telematics system, a lower spec car probably would be simpler.

    This is probably bordering on the too many buttons end of the scale, with iDrive on the other end of the scale having too few. A good middle blend is possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    I read in a british magazine (nice big 3 page write up on it)
    The airmailed edition of CAR (FEB04) has a good article on the 407.

    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    It is still unknown whether it has double-wishbones front and rear, or just front with a new multi-link setup at the rear. Either way it should handle pretty well.
    The latter - double wishbone at the front and a funny looking multilink rear setup. Personally, I think there are better setups than double wishbone for the rear (as Ford discovered with the Falcon), proponents of the Control Blade system argue that double wishbone doesn't separate the longitudinal and lateral forces optimally, as the suspension 'arms' aren't angled right along the two axis', unlike Control Blade.

    Having said that, double wishbone at the front certainly has value when you want to channel lots of power through the front wheels. A Control Blade type setup really isn't possible, given the wheels need to steer at a reasonable angle.

    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    It is also meant to have different steering setups designed for each engine varient (1.8L through to 2.7V6 HDI).
    Not quite sure what you mean by this - different racks, different power assistance systems or levels of assistance? I suspect it's the latter, that is very easy to do via software basically. Benefit is you can have very common part lines and hence economies of scale.

    I believe with multiplexing, there is great potential in 'customiseability' for drivers. I've experienced this to some degree with the S60R, if you select Advanced Sport mode on the dash, it affects not just chassis dynamics, but also automatic shift rates and shift points and throttle response (throttle by wire system basically halves the required travel for max throttle). I think it would be great if we could select a "sportier" steering mode, giving a little more weight and accuracy for more involving driving. The technology is certainly available to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    There is a new (6 speed?)Aisin Warner automatic gearbox (yay!) for the more powerful engines. They had to bring this in to deal with the 400nm of torque the 2.7L V6 HDI generates.
    Yep, 6 speed AW auto for the V6 engines. The 4 cylinder engines will have the plain old 4 speed auto (I'm guessing the standard AL4 that stars in almost every current French automatic car). Ironically, (from a performance perspective), it's probably the 4 potters that would benefit more from the 6sp auto.

    AL4 certainly can't handle 400Nm of torque. There aren't many transverse autogearboxes with a competitive number of gears that can handle those levels of torque.

    Quote Originally Posted by nJm
    And no matter what it looks like, it is guaranteed to sell well, as all previous big Peugeot's have before it (well, except the 6-oh series)
    Interstingly Peugeot is forecasting initial 407 sales to be lower than the 406 at launch because of a change in market dynamics.

    It'll be interesting to see how the Australian market reacts to the 407, given it'll be the least conventional looking car in its segment. After all, we know this market is fairly conservative with its styling tastes.

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    peugeot up untill recently have pretty much always had the wheels as close as they can to each corner of the car
    it's only now with the 07 disease this seems to have gone out the window
    check out any of the pugs 206 and earlier and see what i mean
    The 307 is very much a wheel at a corner design.

    Quote Originally Posted by TestySpice
    1) It will be interesting to see how its priced. As we all know here , our $ has risen quite some way and ive not seen any reduction in current cars. So this will be worth looking at.
    Whilst the AUD has risen quite a bit against the USD, do remember that the 407 come from Euroland. Against the EUR, the AUD hasn't moved that much.

    It's the weakness of the USD that has caused a lot of the AUD's appreciation against it. As that's basically the main figure thrown about, our perceptions of the AUD's real value are somewhat exaggerated.

    Quote Originally Posted by TestySpice
    3) What engine variants we get
    Petrol 2.2 16V 4 potter and 3.0 V6 at launch.

    HDis will follow in 2005, 2.0 HDi135 (can't launch it any earlier due to diesel standards legislation kicking in for 2005), there is the possibility of the 2.7 HDi arriving too.

    Quote Originally Posted by TestySpice
    4) Will they charge for metallic paint like some dodgy car makers. When all of us know that metallic paint these days can be manufactured at the same cost as non.
    You can bet they will, pretty much everyone. It's basically the equivalent in the upper segments of making aircon an option in small cars. The price of metallic paint in luxury cars is crazy.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  20. #20
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930

    Default

    I was glad to see Subaru don't charge anything for metallic paint on the new Legacy. I believe on the previous model it cost an extra $300.

    I'm glad the 407 has adventurous looks. While I do agree the 406 is nice, it is rather bland. Like DTwo said of the 505 etc, it looks like any other sedan with a nicer nose and tail. I think the guys on Top Gear summed up one of the 407's rivals rather well; when talking about the C5 being restyled this year they had to ask what styling there was to begin with. "The C5 is the perfect get-away car. When the police ask witnesses what it looked like, all they can say was 'um, it was a car. Sort of blob shaped'."

    I think it is great Peugeot is getting out there with car design. Renault and BMW have recently started to transform their rather drab line-ups into rather distinctive, interesting cars. Look how much we've moved on. In the early 90s we had the 405 (a box), the Peugeot 309 and Citroen ZX (boxes with a hatch), the Renault 21 sedan (another box), the Rover 416 sedan (a box), W124 Mercedes E Class (a box), you get the idea.

    PSA wouldn't dare send out a car this late in the game with lousy dynamics. The Mondeo, while getting on a bit now, is still an excellent car. Hopefully they won't be resting on their laurels after the 206 selling so well. Current PSA cars have terrible reputations for reliability, and that isn't just because of their use of Multiplexed electronics. In the TopGear survey in the UK it was the nice and simple PSA cars like the 106 and Saxo that ranked below the 206 and the C5!
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    770

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307

    Interstingly Peugeot is forecasting initial 407 sales to be lower than the 406 at launch because of a change in market dynamics.

    It'll be interesting to see how the Australian market reacts to the 407, given it'll be the least conventional looking car in its segment. After all, we know this market is fairly conservative with its styling tastes.
    I think it would be surprising if Peugeot didn't manage to sell at least as many of these in Australia as Citroen are selling C5s......the 407 at least is better looking car, hands down .....

    What needs to happen here is peugeot needs to make this thing drive very well.....it really needs to come out leading the class, It would be a real shame if the 407 is as mediocre as the 607 (was to it's class)

    I could live with the over hang if it did in fact serve a purpose...(ie save pedestians), the main issues with the overhang are, how much weight is outside the car's wheelbase? (could the engine really be that far forward?), and whether the thing will scrape gutters everywhere

    Wonder how heavy it is?

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Posts
    246

    Default 407

    The notion that the huge front overhang is necessary for pedestrian safety is absolute rubbish. The wheels on the 407 could be moved 50 cm closer to the front of the car without changing the shape of the nose at all.

    The overhang is down to the platform on which the 407 is built.

    The main consequence of this huge front overhang on the 407, other than the obvious aesthetic one, is that the mass distribution will be awful and the car will have problems with polar moment of inertia owing to the drivetrain all being hung out in front of the wheels. This will likely translate into massive understeer at low to medium speeds. I'm afraid that - like the 607 - the 407 may be beholden to its ESP system to give it a semblance of normal roadholding and emergency handling safety.

    The 607 was about to be released when it was discovered that the car could not pass the "Elk Test" without rising up on two wheels and threatening to flip over. So rather than doing the right thing and redesigning it from a clean sheet, Peugeot decided on a band-aid and slapped ESP on all 607s before release.

    Like the 607, I see the 407's dynamics being totally reliant on multiplexed electronics, especially in safety systems such as ESP/ABS. This is a speculative prediction of course, based on the car's layout and the experience of the 607 fiasco.

    The first cars with ESP (like the more expensive Mercedes of the mid-1990s) were possessed of good and safe inherent handling and roadholding characteristics. The ESP had a high threshold for activation and was in essence a supplementary safety feature for extraordinary circumstances. Now, with cars like the 607, smart and A-Class, the basic handling is crap and the electronic smoke and mirror show is used to mask design compromises.

    Not for me, thanks.

    Give me a tail-happy (and eminently tossable) 405 any day.....

    Oh, and the 405 is a "box"? It's a rather clean and elegant one! If not bold in design, it set standards of good taste in small sedan styling that few cars of its era (or this era) come up to. Some of the 405's design details are exquisite, such as the sculpting on the C-pillar. This was the tradition at Peugeot during the Pininfarina era, sadly now ending.

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! J4RS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by M. Tippett
    The notion that the huge front overhang is necessary for pedestrian safety is absolute rubbish. The wheels on the 407 could be moved 50 cm closer to the front of the car without changing the shape of the nose at all.

    The overhang is down to the platform on which the 407 is built.

    The main consequence of this huge front overhang on the 407, other than the obvious aesthetic one, is that the mass distribution will be awful and the car will have problems with polar moment of inertia owing to the drivetrain all being hung out in front of the wheels. This will likely translate into massive understeer at low to medium speeds. I'm afraid that - like the 607 - the 407 may be beholden to its ESP system to give it a semblance of normal roadholding and emergency handling safety.

    The 607 was about to be released when it was discovered that the car could not pass the "Elk Test" without rising up on two wheels and threatening to flip over. So rather than doing the right thing and redesigning it from a clean sheet, Peugeot decided on a band-aid and slapped ESP on all 607s before release.

    Like the 607, I see the 407's dynamics being totally reliant on multiplexed electronics, especially in safety systems such as ESP/ABS. This is a speculative prediction of course, based on the car's layout and the experience of the 607 fiasco.

    The first cars with ESP (like the more expensive Mercedes of the mid-1990s) were possessed of good and safe inherent handling and roadholding characteristics. The ESP had a high threshold for activation and was in essence a supplementary safety feature for extraordinary circumstances. Now, with cars like the 607, smart and A-Class, the basic handling is crap and the electronic smoke and mirror show is used to mask design compromises.

    Not for me, thanks.

    Give me a tail-happy (and eminently tossable) 405 any day.....

    Oh, and the 405 is a "box"? It's a rather clean and elegant one! If not bold in design, it set standards of good taste in small sedan styling that few cars of its era (or this era) come up to. Some of the 405's design details are exquisite, such as the sculpting on the C-pillar. This was the tradition at Peugeot during the Pininfarina era, sadly now ending.
    Some of the 607's I've driven must have been pre-production then.....


  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,664

    Default

    Justin I think the 407's best angle is from underneath!
    How much does a 407 weigh? That was another popular question. It weighs as much as two immature male elephants having gay elephant sex.
    Not that it is a lifestyle thing of mine, but I would rather look at the two male elephants trunking each other than that ugly car.
    They forecast less 407 sales than 406. I was there when 406 arrived, and that was hard to sell. And the 406 was good looking.
    Bring back the 405. Or as Ray would say bring back whatever model that was before the 404.
    Sack the board at Peugeot and install that fat crying guy from Australian Idol as sole decision maker. Couldn't do a worse job
    I've said my bit.
    Last edited by Warwick2; 24th January 2004 at 11:39 PM.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,664

    Default

    No. I'm not finished yet!
    The windscreen is too raked and flat. The bonnet too flat.
    It's only when I chopped a couple of feet out of the heap that the car starts to look better, but it also shows just how empty their cupboard is, cos my 407.1.1 kinda looks like some other PSA cars. Except better.
    [/IMG]
    That took me 3 minutes, yet it took Peugeot's crack design team 8 years and a Cray Supercomputer to come up with that other crap.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New 407-design_photo_00_zoom2.jpg  
    Last edited by Warwick2; 25th January 2004 at 12:12 AM.

Page 1 of 5 12345 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •