Porsche wanted 901 but Peugeot owns the 0
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Porsche wanted 901 but Peugeot owns the 0

    40 odd years ago when Porsche moved from the 356's to the good old 911's they wanted to call the new breed of car a 901 rather then 911, but Peugeot had the rights to almost any 3 digit combination of numbers with a zero as the middle number. There was a bit of bitching untill Porsche settled for 911 as their number wink

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    Both car makers were happy in the end.
    cheers!
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  2. #2
    XTC
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    n b j:
    Both car makers were happy in the end. cheers!
    I bet Porsche are .. then how did Mazda get the 808 ?

    - XTC206 -
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  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    That's a good question...

    I didn't think there was an issue with the 911, but I recall that the 904 was.

    It came out with that number, but in the end was renamed the 914, IIRC.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    yes the 914 was originally to be named the 904, but Peugeot were not happy, so porsche went with 914. Not that it matters, the 914 is a sorry excuse for a car and would be an insult to both porsche and peugeot anyway.

    But hey this is a froggy forum, lets not compare porsches here wink

    I don't know how mazda got the 808, I would have thoguht it would have to be an 828



    Who knows? Maybe Peugeot don't have the rights to every combination of *0*'s and/or maybe they never plan on bring out an 808!

    Oh to get back to the porsches just for a sec (I own one you see) Porsche are to relase the 911 GT3RS which is a stripped out purpose built road going version of it's Le Mans GT3 racer. It will get it's inspiration from Ultimate and still the best 911 ever built (acording to any enthusiast) the 1973 911RS. I own one of these original cars and I am stoked that 30 years on porsche have decided to build 300 purpose built factory race cars to celebrate 40 years of the 911.

    Already 15 have been ordered into Australia, they feature ultra light body with carbon fibre doors, rollcage as standard and the same Red or Blue decals and wheels that it's 1973 predecessor had.

    It's strictly for people who just want to drive their cars though, with it's harness seatbelts, no radio, no glove box, no center console, no air conditioning and a rollcage this car goes back to the racing roots that I feared porsche were getting away from. This is one awsome street legal racer wink

    For those of you interested I have some great action shots of my 1973 RS with all 4 wheels off the ground ontop off the esses at Mount Panorama wink I am also putting pics on the same page of my 206 airborne (well 3 wheels are) on the same corner.
    comming soon...
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  5. #5
    nJm
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    I would love to see those photos. I love the 70s 911 RS. Actually, I just love any early 911. Ever since I saw The Gumball Rally (or whatever that american movie based on the cannonball run was called) with a white 1970s 911 Targa I fell in love .

    Seeing the pug with a few legs off the ground would be cool too. I can't quite visualise what would be required to get one of the older RWD pugs to get off the ground. The suspension travel borders on ridiculous.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    There are a couple of places where I regularly got wheels off the ground... I mean every day.

  7. #7
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    A friend has a porche 911 A series and it has 901 stamped on the parts so the "story" is correct.

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Oh, there's no doubting it...

    The 904/914 issue was in all the magazines... the 901/911 one wasn't, or not that I can saw (and I read the mags that should have mentioned it), maybe the later one became more public because Peugeot got stroppy that Porsche should try them on again?

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Yeah Ray I think that is why the 914/904 issue is more public.

    the 911/901 issue was settled discreetly between porsche and peugeot and they came to an agreement. Plus being 40 years ago now it is not as well known about. Infact porsche were happier with the 911 once they changed it, when they brought out the 904 (914)in the 80's Peugeot kicked up a big fuss because it was almost like "How dare you try again? We had an agreement!"
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
    206XR 1.6ltr - SOLD
    BMW E36 325i Coupe
    73 Porsche 911RS

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    My problem with the 904 is this...

    I seem to recall that there was this issue, but that there was also a 904 competition car that was nothing like the 914... one of the 'platform' chassis cars.

  11. #11
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    Ray Bell:
    There are a couple of places where I regularly got wheels off the ground... I mean every day.
    In the workshop a lot, eh, Ray?

    On topic, I thought the 901 story was well known - I hadn't heard about the 904. In fact, I'd heard that it almost got to court, but Porsche had advice that they couldn't win.

    Nick, yes, one of the most beautiful cars, a pre-flare, post-SWB-era 911. One of those rare cars that you can walk around and stare at every perfect curve and profile. And the lovely small sixes...who cares about the tail happiness?

    Stuey


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  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    ok
    here is the story as i knew it
    i had never heard of the drama with the 904/914 so i have learnt something but check <a href="http://vista.pca.org/stl/911hist.htm" target="_blank">here</a> and the story will be laid out in front of you
    and of course it has a pic of the 20th 901/911 made
    i was going to scan in a pic but i thought i would search first
    i have a pic of a 901/911 from schlumpf that i took when i was there
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    n b j:
    this car goes back to the racing roots that I feared porsche were getting away from. This is one awsome street legal racer
    The gents at SVM Porsche,(spell?) told me that this is the reason Porsche built the Cayane 4WD...
    Basically they can't affor to stay sompetetive and bulid awesome machines like the GT2 etc, if they didn't build ,and sell, lots of the Cayane.
    What do you think,.... im stil neither here nor there, and think its actually quite fugly, nice interior, very X5meets Boxster feel and look, i also liked the very solid feel to it very little body shake for a 4WD... nice but ugly.
    the one i waslucky enough to drive was apparently the first customer/retail delivered example, its already got 5000K's on it. cheers Xq
    ... ptui!

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    A few other anomalies:

    -Bristol: they had a 403 and 404, but nowadays they are into the 41x series. Porsche and VW were nice to them too.

    -Mercedes-Benz: The Unimogs in some cases have x0x numbers. For example, the famed 404 Unimog powered by an inline 6 petrol engine (Swiss/German army type from 1960-1970 era). There was a 406 (Diesel) Unimog about 30 years ago too, the light series that was ubiquitous in Germany when I lived in Europe. And the not-too-long out of production light series was coded as the U 408...

    Exactly why Peugeot came down like a ton of bricks on Porsche over the 901 remains a mystery to me. First of all, the last of the Peugeot x01 series cars dates from pre-WWII. Secondly, will Peugeot ever have a "9" series? What will it be, a bus? A rubbish truck? Or worse still, an SUV? Thirdly, what happens when Peugeot runs out of suffix numbers?

    Will the successor of the Peugeot 409 (apologies to Chevrolet and the Beach Boys) be the 4010, or the 411? Whoops, VW owns that one. I am waiting with baited breath to see. I think that point in time is where the shoe will be on the other foot, so to speak. Or, if you like, what goes around comes around. You reap what you sow. Any metaphor will do, actually. Porsche could walk all over Peugeot if the latter want a "1" as the middle digit.

    What with the short cycles that new cars last for these days, I imagine we'll be seeing the last of the x09 Peugeots in about 15 years' time. We haven't that long to wait....
    -Mike
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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Will the successor of the Peugeot 409 (apologies to Chevrolet and the Beach Boys) be the 4010, or the 411?
    My bet would be that they will do the Apple OS trick and hit 40X (better than a 4X I guess - anything is better than a 4X - even a West End or a Bud - ergh!.) - or simply go back to the beginning and start again!

    Or maybe they will simply say it with words rather than numbers. Quatre Cent Dix has a certain ring to it, after all.

    Wasn't there a similar brawl with Bristol to the one with Porsche?

    My bet would be that the Unimogs didn't count. Wonderful as they are, they aren't really "cars".

    Cheers

    Rod
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  16. #16
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    pugrambo:
    ok
    here is the story as i knew it
    i had never heard of the drama with the 904/914 so i have learnt something but check <a href="http://vista.pca.org/stl/911hist.htm" target="_blank">here</a> and the story will be laid out in front of you
    and of course it has a pic of the 20th 901/911 made
    i was going to scan in a pic but i thought i would search first
    i have a pic of a 901/911 from schlumpf that i took when i was there
    Thanks Rambo..You can see the difference in those pics on that site. The early one almost has the 356 bathtub proportions; the added 10cm or so between the door and the rear wheelarch makes all the difference in the '69 model...lovely.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  17. #17
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Stuey
    <strong>In the workshop a lot, eh, Ray?
    The first bend up the hill from Wallacia... lots of people tell me they saw my front wheel dangling through there all the time... and there was a bend in King's Hill Road at Mulgoa where there's a kind of hump on the apex... both inside wheels off the deck there most mornings as I went to fuel up.

    Yeah, yeah... I used to drive fairly hard.

    As for the topic, surprised me to learn they extended the 911 wheelbase.

    And how about those crazy gas-producing struts that suspended the front of the 911T without torsion bars?

  18. #18
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    Do enlighten me Ray. I haven't heard about those struts...by the way, there are a couple of 914/4's getting around Perth - unfortunately they've seen the fibreglassers' art and have big arches stuck on.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  19. #19
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Porsche, from memory, sold this model as a bit of a luxury car. Among its luxuries was a sort of a float-on-gas ride.

    Now you may well be aware that the standard front end had torsion bars working through the wishbone that hooked onto the bottom of the strut. These didn't have the torsion bar at all.

    Inside the Boge-manufactured struts, which were a fair bit bigger than the standard units, there was an oil that produced a gas when it was worked. So as you drove the car it kept itself suspended on this gas. Crazy German stuff...

    Naturally, they frequently failed. And there was no easy option but to buy new ones at some horrendous price. You wouldn't get your car back for months if you wanted to convert them to torsion bars, and the price would be even higher.

    In those early 911 years... say 1970/71... you could find better than 35 of them in various workshops around Sydney at any given time. And you barely ever saw one on the road.

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger!
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    i thought an original 73 RS was very very hard to find. .... let alone on this side of $100k.

    i've got a 57 356A dying a slow death .... would love an RS to replace it!
    ashleyt

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  21. #21
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Into masochism big time, eh?

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Yes they are very rare. They are the ultimate porsche.

    Our '73 RS is one of only 5 in Australia and one of only 100 in the world.

    It is also one of only 2 or 3 in Australia which is white with the red decals. And it was the only RHD RS in the world that was built with a factory sunroof. It is a UK spec car which was shipped directly to Hong Kong, then went to melbourne, we picked it up for a bargain about 10 years ago, the engine was running rough and needed work. It is now the best kept 73 RS in Austrlia and the only other car that is better is an original 1973 blue RSR owned by Dutton which has been featured in more porsche magazines then I can rember, ours has been in a few Mag's too.

    We havn't put a rollcage in it, otherwise it would ruin it's originality. It still has the original engine, but it was bored out a little bit. It runs large Bridgestone Potenza soft compound tyres on special rims which are porsche branded, identical to the original 1973 rims but are much wider (19" rims too) oh it only has the extra wide rims on the rear tyres.

    We race and enter it into rallies on regular occasions, many ppl think we are crazy for doing this, but the car was built for it, and we don't intend on denting it (even though I spun it a year ago on turn one at eastern creek at about 190km/h ehehehe) We also have an excellent mechanic who builds Replica 73RS's for rallying, he loves the car more then his wife wink

    I got a gallery of pics I want to upload, will do it soon.
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
    206XR 1.6ltr - SOLD
    BMW E36 325i Coupe
    73 Porsche 911RS

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    i've got a 57 356A dying a slow death .... would love an RS to replace it!
    Yeah we had an old red 1956 356A, it did die a slow death wink and the RS replaced it about 10 years ago wink hehehe never know your luck.
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
    206XR 1.6ltr - SOLD
    BMW E36 325i Coupe
    73 Porsche 911RS

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