Ignition Timing Peugeot 504
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  1. #1
    Tadpole AviR69's Avatar
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    Default Ignition Timing Peugeot 504

    Anybody knows the correct timing advance for an xm7 with breaker points distributor & carb model ?

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  2. #2
    Tadpole
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    Default Ignition timing on an older 504

    The official figure for the XN1 engine is 5 degrees before TDC, static.

    We had a 1971 model year 504 and the ignition timing was set statically by turning the engine (by hand) until you could drop a Phillips head screwdriver down the hole in the clutch housing. Later engines had markings on the crankshaft pulley.

    It was a bit agricultural and there was always the risk of forgetting to remove the screwdriver before starting. I never did, but came close.

    Once the car was running, the best running was set by rotating the distributor for fastest idle and then retarding slightly. If you have a vacuum gauge, best manifold vacuum (with distributor vacuum disconnected) and again retard slightly.

    None of our 504s would run well at 5 degrees, lousy power and poor economy. I think they ended up closer to 8 degrees.

    Hope this helps,

    Tony

  3. #3
    Tadpole AviR69's Avatar
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    Thanks Tony
    Actually I bought a 123Ignition electronic ignition distributor (I Will be in Germany at the end of March and pick it up there)
    So I need to choose the correct timing advance for initial setup.
    In the user manual there is a need to set it to static ignition by putting an 8mm drill through the hole.
    from user manual :
    On the old distributor, note the position of the ignition wire to the number one cylinder.
    Remove the distributor cap and turn the engine in its normal direction so that the rotor almost
    points to the number one cylinder position. Now carefully turn the engine further until the
    8mm drill-bit slidesinto the hole of the flywheel.
    The engine is now at the static timing point, near the end of the
    compression stroke for the number one cylinder.
    .

  4. #4
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    After the rod has dropped in turn the distributor clockwise a fair amount then back anticlockwise until the coil is triggered.

    Quote Originally Posted by AviR69 View Post
    Thanks Tony
    Actually I bought a 123Ignition electronic ignition distributor (I Will be in Germany at the end of March and pick it up there)
    So I need to choose the correct timing advance for initial setup.
    In the user manual there is a need to set it to static ignition by putting an 8mm drill through the hole.
    from user manual :
    On the old distributor, note the position of the ignition wire to the number one cylinder.
    Remove the distributor cap and turn the engine in its normal direction so that the rotor almost
    points to the number one cylinder position. Now carefully turn the engine further until the
    8mm drill-bit slidesinto the hole of the flywheel.
    The engine is now at the static timing point, near the end of the
    compression stroke for the number one cylinder.
    .

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugnomad99 View Post
    there was always the risk of forgetting to remove the screwdriver before starting. I never did, but came close.
    I DID, (quite a few years ago). Although there is a hole in the bellhousing, the flywheel inside has a tapered slot which is open.....it is not a hole. It is HALF a hole. So all that happened is that the engine turned and bent the screwdriver I put in there. It was a little difficult to get out.
    Not sure what would happen with the drill bit they recommend....I suppose it would break.

    Many 504 owners here in Oz always set their timing by doing it static as recommended, then advancing it a little. Then they would go up a big hill in 3rd gear. They'd wait till the engine started "pinging", then retard it.
    Usually ended up 8 or 10 degrees.
    More advance gives more power, but you really don't want pinging (also called pinking)......that metallic rattle.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AviR69 View Post
    Anybody knows the correct timing advance for an xm7 with breaker points distributor & carb model ?
    With the vagaries of different petrol octanes, engine compression etc etc I believe Roger Wilkinson's post in the Citroen Forum is right on the mark. The advice applies to almost any carby/ distributor ignition car engine. The only caveat is interpret "mild pinging" quite carefully.

    If the engine runs there is no need to worry about the pin or a light. Just time it by ear.

    First make sure the ignition contact points in the distributor are in good condition and the gap is correct (using either a feeler gauge or dwell meter). Then adjust the timing by trial and error. Advance the timing (turn dizzy anti-clockwise) a little, then go for a drive and listen for pinging (repetitive high pitched metallic "tink" sounds, particularly when trying to accelerate up a slight hill in top gear from a low speed). If you don't hear any pinging advance the timing a bit more and go for another drive. If you do hear pinging, retard the timing a bit and go for a drive. You want it as advanced as possible without pinging.

    Roger
    The less one interacts with rude, ignorant, critical and argumentative members. The more peaceful life becomes.

  7. #7
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    I think the XM7 has very low compression so you may end up with way too much advance before it pings.
    More advance will give more response and economy but usually more max power will be obtained with ignition wound back a bit.
    Took a bit out of the full load area of the ignition map with my 205 rally car the other day and picked up 3 kw, very easy to try these things when you have aftermarket EFI.
    403s are the same, they aren't going to ping with 7 to 1 compression so all too often these engines are set up to run very harshly, particularly with the 3 main bearings only.
    Graham


    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    With the vagaries of different petrol octanes, engine compression etc etc I believe Roger Wilkinson's post in the Citroen Forum is right on the mark. The advice applies to almost any carby/ distributor ignition car engine. The only caveat is interpret "mild pinging" quite carefully.

    If the engine runs there is no need to worry about the pin or a light. Just time it by ear.

    First make sure the ignition contact points in the distributor are in good condition and the gap is correct (using either a feeler gauge or dwell meter). Then adjust the timing by trial and error. Advance the timing (turn dizzy anti-clockwise) a little, then go for a drive and listen for pinging (repetitive high pitched metallic "tink" sounds, particularly when trying to accelerate up a slight hill in top gear from a low speed). If you don't hear any pinging advance the timing a bit more and go for another drive. If you do hear pinging, retard the timing a bit and go for a drive. You want it as advanced as possible without pinging.

    Roger

  8. #8
    Tadpole AviR69's Avatar
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    BTW My Peugeot has an automatic transmission.
    has anyone have picture of the 8mm hole in the flywheel ?

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    do you have timing marks on the timing cover?
    if i understand right, the drill is used to find the tdc point where there are no marks (like in my car).

  10. #10
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    No, to find the 5 degree before TDC, there are two holes usually and TDC can be found on the other.
    403s had only one hole, the timing point one.

  11. #11
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    This engine should be 8-10 degrees btdc.
    Anyway, after you install the new dizzy in this initial point adjust it with a timing gun if you have the marks on the timing cover or with a vacuum gauge.

  12. #12
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    I checked again in some document, and the answer is 10 degrees for m48 dizzy (low compression) and 6 degrees for m130 dizzy.

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