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Thread: pug 404

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    pug 404

    I'm thinking of buying a '69 404 sedan. I would love a ute but they seem very rare. It is just out of rego. It looks reasonably good for a $1000 but I was very concerned by all the wetness in the front drivers floorpan area felt soaked. The seller says that it is a common prob and that it is coming from the inadequacy of the drainage of that removable front panel below windscreen. Is this a common problem with them. The car ticks over nicely and drives nicely let's say this was a while ago and the rego was'nt quite out. I can feel that eventually the clutch will need to be replaced. The car changed ok for me but the owner says that the gearbox has been standing him up. In particular a problem changing down gears.
    Apparently
    heater not working, fan does
    car overheats in summer sometimes
    some small interior probs eg tape works but radio does'nt - I can fix that
    clock does'nt work
    apparently the crossmembers have been fixed
    paint , upholstery, chrome fair to good
    $1200 with lots of parts.
    I've always wanted a 404 as I think they are much nicer to look at than most other pugs ( I know that It is probably unwise to say that on this forum). They are very nice to drive and have their own charm. The rego label says that it is 1786cc. Were They all 1.8's at this time. I know that there was a 2.0L fuel injected motor but only as a private import - please correct me If i am wrong. I know much more about Cits & REnaults - but this purchase would mean that I have the three marques!

    Any thoughts most welcome

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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    '69 models were 1618cc so this one has been changed over to the wonderful 1.8
    best little 4 pot pug's made back then
    damp front floor
    check the air vents and their drains as they fill up with water and dump it nicely on your foot when you open them up if the drains are blocked
    check for rust around the bottom of the windscreen
    if car is overheating check the welsch plug behind the water pump and also recondition the water pump and check the radiator out
    if at any time the head gasket has gone on it then you will more then likely find the rad has crap in it
    a stocking in the top hose is a good idea to catch most crap and check it regularly
    2.0 inj motors as far as i know never ventured into 404's but they did have a 1618inj engine fitted overseas (correct me if i am wrong people)
    i will tell you though that a 2.0 inj angine goes well in them but you would have to go 5spd or up the diff
    '69 depending on early or late of that year should have discs fitted on the front with slotted wheels
    check linkages for gear change troubles as well as they can wear and if the bloke has had trouble changing gear he might have used a little force and made them worse
    check the clutch and fluid as they have a good habit of leaking and the brake master cylinder will leak into the car as well
    anyway have fun i have had many a 404 and loved 'em all
    pity they had body roll as standard but that can be cured
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  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Heater is probably clogged at the tap, sorry pugrambo, but I know this evil problem, easily cured, but you have to take the heater out to do it.

    And you're right, the biggest engine in a 404 was 1618cc. 1800s and 2-litres were purely 504 material.

    The 69 404 with its disc brakes was the best stopping car ever! But if the booster goes, just bypass it and fit Hillman Super Minx calipers, but you must trim the top of the pad material (where it overlaps the disc edge...) and you have to file a little clearance into the calipers to fit them round that huge 11.75" disc.

    Look for leaks in the brake limiting valve, attached to the chassis and hooked up to the torque tube by a spring under the back seat.

    The leaks over the feet are either rust in the valence panels, windscreen leaks or blocked drain hoses from the valence panel.

    Maybe you don't deserve this car, the very best model Peugeot ever made... chase up Owen Wuillemin and offer him lots for his ute and you'll get that instead.

    Love that body roll, lets you know the car is working...

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Don't know why the French make so many cars that leak! (DS roofs and boots, 504's with split windscren rubbers, 404's with rusty plenum chambers , even 505's with poor roof aerial seals and blocked plenum chamber drain tubes! Sigh - I've willingly suffered them all (and my wife's occasional jibes) for the sake of the positives!

    Wet floors are pretty common in 404's, and they can lead to further problems with rust in the floorpans etc.

    How much it matters can depend to some extent on where the car is. If its based in a salty, seaside Sydney suburb I'd be looking VERY hard at the extent of resultant rust damage. If its from out the back of beyond , where it gets a chance to dry out regularly and salt isn't a factor, I'd still be looking hard, but I wouldn't be quite as concerned, as long as I could remedy the problem before it progressed any further.

    The gear change problem could be a clutch master or slave cylinder issue (does pumping it improve things?), a problem with the clutch itself (not particularly common, and more likely to result in slip than hard changes), or a problem with selector forks. Selector forks were more of a problem with the early "C' gear boxes, than the later "BA" ones. A 1969 car will have the later gearbox.

    I be suspecting a radiator problem as the cause of the overheating, and I'd get it fixed asap, before it suffers any serious damage. 404's shouldn't overheat, even in the hottest conditions. I used to tote both a 403 and a 404 around both city streets and Central Australia without any overheating issues at all, as long as the radiator was kept in good nick.

    One other possibility is that the vehicle is fitted with a thermo fan and that this is not operating properly.

    I would be inclined though to run a compression test as well if the engine has shown signs of overheating. It can also be caused by valve or other engine problems, and , if it has been serious, can result in head gasket problems too.

    404's are lovely drivers cars - one of the best balanced cars ever made. If its not rusting apart I'd be inclined to go for it and then do the necessary restoration.

    Cheers

    Rod
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    Peugeot 4008 2016Peugeot 407 SV HDi estate 2008, Peugeot 407 SV Hdi Sedan 2006, (deadish), - Previously 403s, 404, 504, 505 sLI Wagons, 406 ST 1997, 307 XSE, 306 XSi, Renault 12, Citroen DSpecial

  5. #5
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by pugrambo:
    <strong>
    pity they had body roll as standard but that can be cured </strong><hr></blockquote>

    What body roll? The post 1967 404s sit very flat. Even my Mini Cooper S driving friend commented on how flat my 73 model South African 404 cornered (his other car was a Volvo 144, the 404 was much closer to the Cooper S than the Volvo).

    Any body roll that late 404s do have is purely due to the roll in the 80 profile tyres. When you fit 60 profile tyres they corner dead flat (but the ride is bumpy as hell).

    Dave
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  6. #6
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    Dave,
    Fully agree about the body roll. The 404 is the flattest Peugeot by far until the 505 STI. The others must have owned 66 or earlier models.
    I believe the 1967 suspension upgrade was done as the first project by the current Peugeot suspension chief engineer.
    Ray, I have got some Humber Vogue calipers and will try your suggestion as I do not like remote power boosters. Do Hillman Hunter caliper kits fit?
    To fix the water leaks take off the hoses on the bottom of the air boxes (below the control levers) and poke a stick up inside the plastic air box to clear blockage. This may have to be done often. Paint the floor with fish oil and keep dry at all costs. The biggest engine fitted to a 404 sedan was 1796cc. This was a South African special. The US wagon had a 1971cc engine, same as our 1977 model 504. To bleed the clutch simply push down on the valve in the middle of the reservoir whilst pulling up the lever underneath.
    The diff does not have to be upgraded, in fact it is stronger than the early 504 diff. If you fit a hypoid diff the torque tube will hit the floor under load.

    Regards, Graham Wallis

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I would say yes to that Graham... just check piston diameter... and don't forget to slice the top 3mm or so off the centre of the pads, otherwise one day you'll have a solid pedal and rear brakes only!

    Not much filing to do to the body of the caliper, but it's a matter of trial fitting to check it out.

    You be home Monday or Tuesday?

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Oh, you'll need a couple of the later model banjos for the lines to the calipers, as I recall...

  9. #9
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    Ray,
    I will be home next week
    Graham

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