405 STI Manual Conversion
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Default 405 STI Manual Conversion

    Gday All,

    I recently picked up a super clean 405 STI with a dead auto box.

    I've decided I'm going to keep the car and use it as a daily for a while and I prefer a manual so I figure a conversion is the way to go. I have a few questions on the process:

    1. Are the driveshafts the same between and auto and manual 405?
    2. Do I need a spigot bush and seal (like in the old 504 motor) when I put the manual gearbox in?
    3. I am planning on using a BE3 that came from an Mi16 and have the box, clutch, and pedals to go in, I need a complete set of linkages though, does the auto 405 subframe have the mounting points on it that are required?
    4. The final, and not so important thing, how can I rig up the factory cruise control to switch off when I hit the clutch pedal, I know on the aftermarket cruise units they have a switch, is it possible to rig something up with the factory unit?

    I think otherwise it seems like a pretty straight forward job and should give a nice car at the end of it.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

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    Cheers
    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    Clutch switch should be easy.
    Factory cruise will have a switch on the brake pedal to shut off the cruise. Add a switch on the clutch pedal and tap into the wire off the brake switch to the cruise.
    Might need to add a diode to stop backfeed if it is the brake Light switch that signals the cruise.

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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    The gear linkages work off an arrangement attached to the steering rack & one on the diff housing. Have you got the internal gear selector & rod, plastic pivot housing for inside the car?
    I can help you with these if necessary.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
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    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
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    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
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  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Yes, you'll need a subframe. You'll be in for a similar ride to me Xsara - AL4 to BE4 Conversion

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Gday Jeff,

    I need all the linkages from the gearstick to the ends on the gearbox. I thought I had a set of 405 stuff but turns out I don't. Would you like to PM me a price and we can talk?

    Haakon, whats the difference in the subframe? The one on the car looks identical to the one on the SRDT and Mi16 here. Does it not have the mounts for the linkages?

    Thanks for the info so far

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Oh and I am planning on using the box from a 205 SI and the clutch cable from a 205 SI I assume this will work OK? I don't want the self adjusting cable like in the 405 S2.
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  7. #7
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    There a a couple of different combos with the gear levers. Some have circlips holding them on to a small pin arrangement, others are the balljoint type.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 405 STI Manual Conversion-be3-gear-lever-types.jpg  
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    They will be the balljoint type ones as the box is out of a 205. I guess I will need to change the selector arm on the gearbox from the 205 to a 405 one. I do have the arm already but think its the pin and socket type one.
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    I'm assuming PSA did things the same, but on the Xsara the subframe on automatic cars was simply missing the bracket that supports the gear linkage - as in my photo.

    As the subframe comes out anyway, it's totally not worth the hassle to weld it onto an existing subframe.

    Subframe was otherwise identical on the xsara b/w auto and manual.

  10. #10
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    That's a shame, I can't see on the diagram though where it attaches to the subframe. I know on the 205 it has an L pivot but it doesn't look like the 405 has it.

    I might need to climb under the Mi16 and have a closer look compared to the STI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    I'm assuming PSA did things the same, but on the Xsara the subframe on automatic cars was simply missing the bracket that supports the gear linkage - as in my photo.

    As the subframe comes out anyway, it's totally not worth the hassle to weld it onto an existing subframe.

    Subframe was otherwise identical on the xsara b/w auto and manual.
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  11. #11
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    On the 405 the selector rod from the gearstick fits into the pivot ball which is bolted to the steering rack. No need for any subframe brackets.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 405 STI Manual Conversion-selector-lever-engine-side.jpg   405 STI Manual Conversion-pivot-ball.jpg  
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6 View Post
    On the 405 the selector rod from the gearstick fits into the pivot ball which is bolted to the steering rack. No need for any subframe brackets.
    Well that's useful! Ignore everything I said then :-). Just assumed 405/306/406/xsara would all follow the same layout.

  13. #13
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    I have decided to dismantle my S2 Mi16.
    This means I have all the manual shift stuff available if you need it.
    Also I have a very good auto if you want to simply replace rather than convert.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16 View Post
    Gday All,

    I recently picked up a super clean 405 STI with a dead auto box.

    I've decided I'm going to keep the car and use it as a daily for a while and I prefer a manual so I figure a conversion is the way to go. I have a few questions on the process:

    1. Are the driveshafts the same between and auto and manual 405?
    2. Do I need a spigot bush and seal (like in the old 504 motor) when I put the manual gearbox in?
    3. I am planning on using a BE3 that came from an Mi16 and have the box, clutch, and pedals to go in, I need a complete set of linkages though, does the auto 405 subframe have the mounting points on it that are required?
    4. The final, and not so important thing, how can I rig up the factory cruise control to switch off when I hit the clutch pedal, I know on the aftermarket cruise units they have a switch, is it possible to rig something up with the factory unit?

    I think otherwise it seems like a pretty straight forward job and should give a nice car at the end of it.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    Cheers
    Ben

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    PM Sent

    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I have decided to dismantle my S2 Mi16.
    This means I have all the manual shift stuff available if you need it.
    Also I have a very good auto if you want to simply replace rather than convert.
    Graham
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  15. #15
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Do you have the horns, Graham? I am interested if they're the clamshell type.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  16. #16
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    What's clamshell?
    They are usually air horns, I'll take a look.


    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Do you have the horns, Graham? I am interested if they're the clamshell type.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    So I had a few hours to get stuck into this today, I have got the auto box and flex plate off the engine, I didn't take the subframe out and just wiggled the box out. I assume I can get the BE3 back in without taking it out as it's smaller than the ZF?

    I have had a look at the pedals and it looks like I don't need to change the whole pedal box, just ad change put the break and clutch pedal in the existing box? I am having trouble working out where the clutch cable comes through the firewall, I had a good look on the Mi16 but cant see it on that either.

    Otherwise this doesn't look like it's going to be too bad a job, the linkages, clutch cable and pedals are the only real concerns I have as otherwise I've been through this exercise before on 205's and manual 405's.

    Any input appreciated, does anyone have a 405 without the engine in it where they could photograph the clutch cable going through the firewall?

    Cheers
    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  18. #18
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    What's clamshell?
    They are usually air horns, I'll take a look.

    Not on all cars. My wife's Mi16 (1993) has clamshells and the car is pristine so I am pretty sure they're the originals.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16 View Post
    Any input appreciated, does anyone have a 405 without the engine in it where they could photograph the clutch cable going through the firewall?

    Cheers
    Ben
    Clutch exit where circled.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 405 STI Manual Conversion-cutch-exit.jpg  
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  20. #20
    Gone Fishin' Haakon's Avatar
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    One the 306/xsara platform, the clutch cable comes through the pedalbox plate - no hole on the auto and the main reason I had to swap the whole pedal box.

    But as already noted, there were a few changes to the layout between the 405 and 306!

  21. #21
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    Do you want the clutch pedal as well Ben?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16 View Post
    So I had a few hours to get stuck into this today, I have got the auto box and flex plate off the engine, I didn't take the subframe out and just wiggled the box out. I assume I can get the BE3 back in without taking it out as it's smaller than the ZF?

    I have had a look at the pedals and it looks like I don't need to change the whole pedal box, just ad change put the break and clutch pedal in the existing box? I am having trouble working out where the clutch cable comes through the firewall, I had a good look on the Mi16 but cant see it on that either.

    Otherwise this doesn't look like it's going to be too bad a job, the linkages, clutch cable and pedals are the only real concerns I have as otherwise I've been through this exercise before on 205's and manual 405's.

    Any input appreciated, does anyone have a 405 without the engine in it where they could photograph the clutch cable going through the firewall?

    Cheers
    Ben

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Do you want the clutch pedal as well Ben?
    No thanks Graham, I've got a pedal box from an Mi16 I wrecked years ago.

    Thanks anyway
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  23. #23
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    Its been a long while now since i put an MI motor with an BE3 in an SRI auto you seem to have it covered ,dont forget to sort the wiring on the auto shifter or you wont be able to start it ,PUGS

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Thanks Jeff, of course when I went back and had a look the rubber bung jumped out at me on the firewall

    Good news for me Haakon, the 405 pedal box in the auto is exactly the same as the manual, all I need to is slip the old pedal out and put the new ones in!

    Thanks Pugwash, I have done the same conversion on 504's and 505's in the past and am aware of the issue with the inhibitor switch wiring.

    The downside for tonight, turns out the 205 clutch cable I have wont work as I need to be able to get the plastic end link off the cable to get it through the firewall of the 405, looks like I need an early 405 type clutch cable, Call to EAI in the morning I think.

    Otherwise, I am really hoping this is going to make a nice car in the end!

    Thanks everyone for your input so far.
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    So I have made some progress on the clutch cable. Have ordered a cable to suit a 405 early as I don't want the self adjusting cable and I am pretty confident this is the cable for me, in saying that, it's not super early as it's a BE3 cable not a BE1.

    Time will tell if it will do the job or not but I suspect it will.
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





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