505 wagon questions
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  1. #1
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    Default 505 wagon questions

    Hi Guys,

    A couple of questions:

    1: I am thinking of having my 505 wagon re sprayed. In order to do it properly the roof bars, stainless steel window surrounds and rear quarter glass plastic vent louvres should be removed. I've had a bit of a pull and prod at the rear quarter glass surrounds and plastic louvre. They seem reluctant to unclip and I am scared of breaking something. Are there any tricks to getting them off?

    2: I can't see any way to remove the roof bars without access to underneath the roof - i.e removal/peel back of the headlining. Is there any other way or should I just have them masked instead?

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    3: The BA7/5 transmission is fairly quiet but has no synchro on first gear and reverse is sometimes difficult to engage. Think an unsympathetic previous owner has been hitting reverse instead of 4th on a frequent basis. When I recently drained the oil a piece of synchro spring fell out and there was a fair amount of swarf and a small piece of chipped tooth attached to the magnet. If I was able to obtain a BA7/4 transmission for spares are any of the internal parts interchangeable with the BA7/5? In particular the synchro assemblies and reverse gearset?

    4. Any recommendations on a good quality re sprayer? I spoke to Lee Murdoch who I found mentioned on this site. He seemed reasonable and quoted a price but I'm wondering if there is anyone else worth trying also.

    Appreciate your advice. I quite like the 505 wagons and would like to get this one up to scratch.

    Regards

  2. #2
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    The plastic louvre will unclip. I'm not sure about the other parts though. A trip to get the window seal areas painted is to insert a thickish piece of string under the seal to raise it away from the bodywork - may be worth considering if you dont want to pull the window out. The interior ling is lapped around the lip and is best left alone, in my experience.

    For some reason, the manual transmissions in 505 wagons (I assume it's a GTI wagon) have a history of issues. I think it's probably due to drivers putting too much load on the gearbox at low speeds. The box is the same as the 505 sedans (including the sTI) except for the driveshaft end. I dont know whether parts are interchangeable with BA7/4, though.
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  3. #3
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    2. You're right, there's not way other than to remove the headlining. You can do it without removing it entirely, if you pull off the door seals, unpeel the headlining (carefully, it is glued and tears easily), and reach in to undo the roofracks. Get a GOOD quality glue to reseal once you're done.

    3. There were at least two different styles of synchro used in BA7 gearboxes. Late BA7/4 gearboxes (with the rubber seal) use identical synchros to BA7s that I have tried, up to at least 1990. Also, the synchro for 1/2 is the same as the 3/4 synchro, and generally, the higher gear ones are in better shape. On the other hand, if your synchros were working fine until the spring was broken, measure the existing synchro and if it's in spec, just get a new spring. A good spring manufacturer will make one for you for less than the price of a new one, and you can get it made beefier if you prefer (good for people more used to japanese gearboxes!).

    4. You absolutely get what you pay for with paint. A $1000 paint job will look like a $1000 paint job (ie, terrible). A $10,000 paintjob will look the goods, but not really worth it on an old 505. You need to find a middle ground. More importantly, you need to find someone with a good reputation, and see an example of their work with the materials that they will use on your vehicle, this is more important than the cost. Remember, someone can show you an example of their work using Glasurit paint, and then paint your car in Supercheap paint to keep costs down - they are worlds apart. Make sure you're seeing an accurate representation of what you're going to get.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  4. #4
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    Thanks Guys. Really appreciate the advice. Lee Murdoch quoted $3000 for the respray. Another place claiming to specialize in resprays quoted $5,000 but then went on to explain how it wasn't really worthwhile on such an old car - great way to attract customers !! Thanks especially for the advice on the gearbox. Where is and how do you identify the rubber seal on the BA7/4 that shows it is the late type?

    Regards


    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    2. You're right, there's not way other than to remove the headlining. You can do it without removing it entirely, if you pull off the door seals, unpeel the headlining (carefully, it is glued and tears easily), and reach in to undo the roofracks. Get a GOOD quality glue to reseal once you're done.

    3. There were at least two different styles of synchro used in BA7 gearboxes. Late BA7/4 gearboxes (with the rubber seal) use identical synchros to BA7s that I have tried, up to at least 1990. Also, the synchro for 1/2 is the same as the 3/4 synchro, and generally, the higher gear ones are in better shape. On the other hand, if your synchros were working fine until the spring was broken, measure the existing synchro and if it's in spec, just get a new spring. A good spring manufacturer will make one for you for less than the price of a new one, and you can get it made beefier if you prefer (good for people more used to japanese gearboxes!).

    4. You absolutely get what you pay for with paint. A $1000 paint job will look like a $1000 paint job (ie, terrible). A $10,000 paintjob will look the goods, but not really worth it on an old 505. You need to find a middle ground. More importantly, you need to find someone with a good reputation, and see an example of their work with the materials that they will use on your vehicle, this is more important than the cost. Remember, someone can show you an example of their work using Glasurit paint, and then paint your car in Supercheap paint to keep costs down - they are worlds apart. Make sure you're seeing an accurate representation of what you're going to get.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    If you need anything from a BA7/4 apart from synchros, John Palmer, a Pug specialist in Brisbane (now elsewhere), once told me that BA7/5s were basically just BA7/4s with the extension fitted, and that everything was identical apart from that.

  6. #6
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    The input shaft of a BA7 has a bronze sleeve that houses the sealing apparatus and provides a surface for the thrust bearing to slide on.

    Early gearboxes had an 'endless screw' system to prevent oil escaping out the front of the gearbox, whereas later ones had a conventional rubber oil seal.

    I can't remember the measurements off hand, but the diameter of the 'bell' at the bottom of the bronze sleeve that sits flush with the hole machined in the bell housing is significantly wider in the rubber-sealed gearboxes. I can measure them when I get home.

    The rubber sealed gearboxes seemed to appear around the time of the 505 (so about 1980), but note that the BA7s fitted to both 504 and 505 naturally aspirated diesels continued to use the earlier system.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  7. #7
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    $3000 sounds quite reasonable.

    I wouldn't go near the $5000 place, with that attitude, you just know they won't care about doing a decent job.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  8. #8
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    Thanks. The BA7/4 gearbox I was thinking of came out of a 504 Diesel so I believe I am better holding off until a BA7/5 or a late BA7/4 comes up for sale. The existing gearbox is still ok function wise so it's not something urgent


    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    $3000 sounds quite reasonable.

    I wouldn't go near the $5000 place, with that attitude, you just know they won't care about doing a decent job.

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