Trying to get 505 to stop breaking!! this time its the vacuum pump can anyone help?
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  1. #1
    Member SamT's Avatar
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    Default Trying to get 505 to stop breaking!! this time its the vacuum pump can anyone help?

    Trying to get 505 to stop breaking!! this time its the vacuum pump can anyone help?-img01020-20131120-1346.jpgTrying to get 505 to stop breaking!! this time its the vacuum pump can anyone help?-img01021-20131120-1347.jpgTrying to get 505 to stop breaking!! this time its the vacuum pump can anyone help?-img01024-20131120-1349.jpgTrying to get 505 to stop breaking!! this time its the vacuum pump can anyone help?-img01025-20131120-1350.jpgHi,

    I'm still trying to get my wagon (2.5l diesel Xd3 conversion) running reliably and this week has been another case of two steps forward and one back! I have just replaced the lucas injector pump with a bosch pump and after a lot of mucking around with timing (anyone know how to time a injector pump well? or good diesel specialist?) the car is running heaps better.... finally revving past 3,000 is smooth and not as boomy resonance as before. The car was however stalling randomly and probably a little more power can be got so probably not in complete tune. Following the car the car was blowing a puff of white smoke when power would disappear and car would stall (usually when under load) so i gather it was a fuel problem. I had to get to melbourne so drove down taking it easy.

    I drove back home from Melbourne and the car drove well with no problems (bout 150kms) so still haven't worked out whats going on there, however i was excited as it drove well!!! that was until i pulled off the freeway only to discover i had no vacuum therefore a rock hard brake pedal!!!

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    Pulling over i discover the vacuum pump casing lid cracked and vacuum hose off to brake booster floating around. I have appoxied the thing back together in attempt to fix but here to my question......

    The pump is a Frenos brand and was missing whatever was inside under the hose pipe connector bit... I have tried washer and seal as packers to replicated the black spacer and it makes vacuum but not enough so brakes still hard! is there supposed to be a valve there? the other side has got a little flap to allow air out only... how does a valve fit inside? Does anyone have one they can send me photos? I havn't seen these pumps on net so may have only been on late GTD's not sure

    ANy info would be appreciated.... sorry to bore you with my problems

    Cheers

    Sam

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Default Vacuum pump

    Just took the top of my spare pump, carbureibar brand, there are three springs, so that may be what's missing from yours, haven,t seen that one before. Normally what fails is the big rubber diaphragm in the main body. Just by turning it you can tell whether there is vacuum if not need a new diaphragm. The carbureibar brand was on merc's and merc wreckers sometimes have diaphragms

  3. #3
    Member SamT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomb View Post
    Just took the top of my spare pump, carbureibar brand, there are three springs, so that may be what's missing from yours, haven,t seen that one before. Normally what fails is the big rubber diaphragm in the main body. Just by turning it you can tell whether there is vacuum if not need a new diaphragm. The carbureibar brand was on merc's and merc wreckers sometimes have diaphragms
    Hey thanks for your help!! Yeah I haven't seen another pump like mine on another diesels altho i haven't seen that many! The pump is creating Vacuum just not enough. I actually replaced the diaphragm on it only a couple of weeks ago - its the same size diaphragm as the Carbureilbar pump i think… the bolt holding the diaphragm in actually come undone, thats what caused the damage! this time I used locktite on the bolt! I have a feeling its not only sucking but is also exhausting a bit of air and not creating a constant vacuum…. my brakes (and vacuum switches) work if the cars idled for a while but as soon depressed the brakes loose the vacuum and take a while to recover again! so may be missing spring and valve or something… Can I get parts or look at finding a spare pump? the Carbureilbar pumps sound like the way to go

  4. #4
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Sam,

    Sorry I haven't replied to your email, I'm on my honeymoon and this is really the first time I've had time to sit down and use the net.

    Re your stalling problem.... It is definitely a fueling problem, as there's nothing else to go wrong on a diesel! The Bosch VE pump needs to have a very free flowing source of fuel. There is a low-pressure vane pump in the front of the pump, that pulls fuel from the tank and submerses all the other high-pressure components inside the pump in fuel. This pump turns over a LOT of fuel, which you will see if you take the return pipe off and run it into a bucket even with the engine at idle. At higher revs, this fuel volume increases proportionately.

    The flip side of this is that a vane pump is generally not self-priming, and can't pull fuel from a source with any restrictions. Having said that, if there are ANY tiny little leaks between the pickup in the fuel tank and the pump, it will suck air in.

    So, if you're losing power after revving the engine, there will be a restriction somewhere between the tank and the pump. As the pump draws less fuel in, the internal fuel pressure inside the pump drops, and that pressure is used to drive the advance mechanism, so the timing will retard, puff of white smoke, power will drop off almost to the point of stalling, and may take a few seconds to recover.

    Here's something for you to check: Have you changed the fuel cap from a sealed system to a ventilated system cap? It doesn't take a lot of vacuum in the tank after giving it a bootfull to cause the kind of restriction that would give you the symptoms you describe. Exactly the problem I had with my wagon after I converted it, and that was with an un-tuned VE on a 2.3 XD2S. A 1.5mm drill bit through the centre of the cap solved the problem, though with a full tank you might see some drips down the side of the car if you corner hard.

    Another thing I should mention - when you changed the pump, did you change the injectors also? The injectors on the Lucas systems have a higher 'cracking' pressure, so if you fit the Bosch pump, it will cause the injectors to open late (retards the timing), and if you are able to advance the timing far enough to compensate, you will never be able to get in the full amount of fuel through those injectors, so you will be down on power on that front also.

    If your injector body is touching the block, and you still can't get the timing advanced far enough, you can remove the timing chain cover and skip it forward a tooth, but start with the right injectors. Be sure to replace the crush washers under each injector every time you install them.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

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  5. #5
    Member SamT's Avatar
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    Awesome Scotty your the best thanks!! Your spot on with the details

    I was discussing the problem with my dad and we did have the thought maybe the fuel tank sealed system could be a problem! I'll go get the drill!!

    I hadn't realised the injectors were different and yes i have advanced as far as physically possible so I will try get hold of the right injectors and that should make the world of difference

    Hey enjoy the rest of your honeymoon and thanks for the info!!! All excited again now... off to play with the car I go

  6. #6
    Tadpole Hutchie's Avatar
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    Hi Guys
    I bought a new vacuum pump from a Rover dealer in the UK for around 48 pounds.
    Ebay store name was British Car Parts. (Sorry I didn't buy 2).
    Don't know what the current price is.
    Hutchie

  7. #7
    Tadpole Hutchie's Avatar
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    Guys it is vital that you use Loctite on the thread of the retainer screw that holds the diaphragm to the piston.
    If you forget, it will destroy the top of the pump.
    How do I know this??? Dunnit!!
    Hutchie

  8. #8
    Member SamT's Avatar
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    Haha yep exactly what i forgot! We all learn the hard way

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