404 disc brakes
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Thread: 404 disc brakes

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    Default 404 disc brakes

    Hi all i have an opportunity to buy a 404 wagon with drum brakes all round i would like to change it to disc brakes on the front is it just a matter of un bolting the drum brake set up and bolting on the disc,s with a booster or is it a bit more involved than that thank you....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 404 resto View Post
    Hi all i have an opportunity to buy a 404 wagon with drum brakes all round i would like to change it to disc brakes on the front is it just a matter of un bolting the drum brake set up and bolting on the disc,s with a booster or is it a bit more involved than that thank you....
    Yes, it's a bit more involved. From my experience many years ago, the stopping power of front disc brakes isn't anywhere as good unless the brake booster is uprated. Other members of the forum can provide the right advice on this,

    I recall taking our 404 family wagon down the Western Tiers with both feet on the brakes (quite steep and quite a long drive) - it was a little scary
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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Then there's the whole 5 stud to 3 stud thing....

    I think one of our South American friends recently posted on fitting 504 ute discs to a 5 stud 404.....

    I had the 4 wheel drum brakes on my '64 404 wagon. They were beautiful brakes, never left me wanting!
    Scotty

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    Thank you for your reply im not worried about the 3 stud 5 stud thing ... ive also heard about a booster being fitted to drum brakes that might be an idea also ....

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    My ex-South Africa 404 wagon has boosted drums. They work a treat. I thought I'd need to upgrade to discs, but really I don't.

    Kev

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    I will try to help you with this. I am doing the same on "Rusty", my old 77 Pick Up (you call it UTE I think, In South Africa they call it Backie). Maybe next month will be some updates on this.

    The thing I don't know is the compatibility of parts (between here and there)

    I bought a complete fron end (arms, wishbones, springs, shocks, discs, calipers) of a sedan.


    I will try to translate this, written originally on spanish...

    Quote Originally Posted by Molerpa on clubpeugeot505.com
    This time is me the one that needs to ask questions... as "I've been told" as usual... WRONG, on the spare shop, some workshops also... as it is not so "plug and play" as they "sold it" to me... "yeah, just remove drum, intall the disc from the back, as it has the mountings... yada yada yada..."

    BULLSHIT!

    Rusty has ventilated drums on the front, (bigger and heavier than I imagined, that's a fact. The disparities you'll see (aparently) on height is because of the presence of the drum itself. Bearings seem to be exactly the same (at least on this models I have) than the 404 Sedan.
    The "aparently" difference on height is because of the offset needed for the drum to fit. I'll have to do cross-check installing the bearing housing with 5 bolts on the front end of the sedan (3 bolts) and vice-versa.
    But seems to be equal.

    Nothing "so plug and play" as they told me... so .... let's compare.


    drum vs disc



    Discs: mounting to the bearing housing (sedan) from behind...






    We see that the bearing housing is machined to make the disc insert there, and also the seat of it as a backing enough to fix it by bolts.







    First problem: disc cannot even pass half ot he bearing housing of UTE...



    Second problem, as you obviously have seen, even if the disc would enter there... there is NOWHERE to thread for the bolts... no backing material. Not plain support, nothing.

    This is normal. If I buy a wood horse, dies by starvation. (Polite way of saying: "If i fell on my back, I break my di...ck")


    As I said previously, even looking like there is a difference on height, is just a difference on offset. Cross-checked, and both applies in the other fron end. The only difference is the offset, what can be solved easily.





    I Would think that not being able to do another thing, I can use the shock supports and axis (is that right? how do you call the part where the bearing are mounted and also inserts the shock absorber?) I would machine the bearing housing, make an adapting plate, and use same calipers and discs than sedan.
    I know they're not gonna be huge for the UTE, but... better than drums for sure.



    PS: I want to be clear that I always keep my concept: THE MODIFIED PART WILL BE THE LESS "REPLACEABLE". If i have to reform the complete fron end, bearing housing, etc, cool. But I want to keep calipers, discs, bearings, STANDARD. "-Good morning, I want a pair of 404 sedan discs, brake pads an calipers, thank you, have a good day". Not this: "hello, can you give a pair of 404 sedan discs, and make a 7mm hole, thread it to M8x1.25, then, increase the center to..."
    NO WAY!

    Last edited by Molerpa; 26th October 2013 at 01:33 AM.


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    And the next chapter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Molerpa on clubpeugeot505.com
    Well... last details on original parts to start to define the "new" intermediate parts.



    This will be an image of how the will be.





    I will continue this maybe next month.


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

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    Hey! I know may not be the best post in aussiefrogs, but at least tell me if it looks similar to yours!


    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It is simply impractical to expect a petrol motor to get through too much water. That's why God invented diesels.

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    Hi thank you for your reply ive only just got my wagon and as yet havent had a chance to check it out yet will let you know as soon as i can thanks again .....

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    There is a 1969 404 just arrived at Imlachs (Centre Rd Springvale) , spectacularly rusted and missing most of the drivetrain but a good chance it could be a source of disc brakes bits.

    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by 404 resto View Post
    Hi thank you for your reply ive only just got my wagon and as yet havent had a chance to check it out yet will let you know as soon as i can thanks again .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Molerpa View Post
    And the next chapter...





    I will continue this maybe next month.
    There is no reason that a 504 disk couldn't be fitted by putting four holes in the adaptor, along with early 504 caliper. The 504 caliper bracket bolts straight on to the 404 strut in place of the brake back plate. If one then fits a servovac unit the same diameter as a 504 booster and uses 504 wagon rear wheel cylinders and the 19mm master cyclinder from a 69 404 sedan with disks, the whole brake setup is the same as an early 504 wagon.

    One note of caution. When machining the 404 hub, the corner where the disk adaptor sits is a fatigue critical area, so use a big radius and polish out the tool marks. Do not grind, it starts cracks and the hub will crack through the radius. See 'Machinery's handbook' or other guide for machining faitgue critical parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    There is a 1969 404 just arrived at Imlachs (Centre Rd Springvale) , spectacularly rusted and missing most of the drivetrain but a good chance it could be a source of disc brakes bits.

    Graham
    Hi just wondering if anyone knows if this 404 still has it's disc brakes ? Or has someone already taken them. Mainly after the hubs, for my 403.



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    Yes, it had the brakes still a week or two back when I bought the wheels, also for a 403, to get 6 inch rims made up.

    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by joshspug View Post
    Hi just wondering if anyone knows if this 404 still has it's disc brakes ? Or has someone already taken them. Mainly after the hubs, for my 403.



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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Yes, it had the brakes still a week or two back when I bought the wheels, also for a 403, to get 6 inch rims made up.

    Graham
    Thanks Graham, might go have a look tomorrow. Yeah I'm going to get the wheels done once the brakes are sorted.

    Thanks josH


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    Default 504 front discs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Llewellyn View Post
    There is no reason that a 504 disk couldn't be fitted by putting four holes in the adaptor, along with early 504 caliper. The 504 caliper bracket bolts straight on to the 404 strut in place of the brake back plate. If one then fits a servovac unit the same diameter as a 504 booster and uses 504 wagon rear wheel cylinders and the 19mm master cyclinder from a 69 404 sedan with disks, the whole brake setup is the same as an early 504 wagon.

    One note of caution. When machining the 404 hub, the corner where the disk adaptor sits is a fatigue critical area, so use a big radius and polish out the tool marks. Do not grind, it starts cracks and the hub will crack through the radius. See 'Machinery's handbook' or other guide for machining faitgue critical parts.
    Spot on Bruce.....
    when I converted my 404 wagon I used 504 disks and hubs, they bolted straight on.
    Please note: apart from master cylinder points you make, it's good to change the hydraulic union on the front cross member to the 'residual pressure ' type fitted to 404 discbraked sedans. It has a larger diameter fitting directed to the rear brakes.
    Without this device you'll have a pretty poor brake pedal no matter how well you bleed the brakes.

    You'll need 504/ 505 4 stud wheels on the front.

    I ended up getting rear drums from a 504 wagon and having the 404 axles machined for 4 stud pattern. The wagon still goes and stops well (in another set of hands)

    Hope this helps

    John

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