306....what can i keep for a 205?
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Thread: 306....what can i keep for a 205?

  1. #1
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    Default 306....what can i keep for a 205?

    I have in my possession a 1997 306 Style with the xu7 16v motor . I dont need the motor however is there anything else on this car that i can use on a 205?
    The brakes? [i thought it was only early models that were the best for 205 ]
    Rear beam????? ARB ? etc etc.

    Cant think of anything else. Any tips that i hadnt thought of much appreciated.

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    jr20516v

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    Rear discs? Arb is too long unless you have it cut down, not sure what dia it would be.

    Otherwise not sure what else. Air box?

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
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    starter motor should fit

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    Thanks guys !!
    So why wont the front brake calipers be useable on this "later" 306. [1997 ]
    Why the big deal with only the earlier model calipers to be used on a 205??
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Brakes should be fine! They are the 266 setup I think? I use these on my car, mine are from a 206 though. Patpug uses these on his too.

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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    Yes, but all the readup/homework i have done all stipulate "early 306" for some reason. Maybe the later ones went smaller ? 266 down to 247..............i just cant see why the early ones are recommended ??
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    Just because they are the same size as the original 205, nothing wrong with the size of the 205 brakes, the idea is to get the ATE calipers.
    Also, there are many early 306s being tossed out.
    The GTi6 brakes are useless just like driving a late model car with the usual super touchy brakes.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    Yes, but all the readup/homework i have done all stipulate "early 306" for some reason. Maybe the later ones went smaller ? 266 down to 247..............i just cant see why the early ones are recommended ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Just because they are the same size as the original 205, nothing wrong with the size of the 205 brakes, the idea is to get the ATE calipers.
    Also, there are many early 306s being tossed out.
    The GTi6 brakes are useless just like driving a late model car with the usual super touchy brakes.
    Graham
    Yes, the GTI6 ones are just too heavy for my liking. Yes, ATE keeps cropping up in my homework. I guess early 306's had ATE and later ones another brand.??
    So let me get this clear in my wine soaked addled mind.....the early calipers are the same size as the 205 items BUT they can accept 266mm discs....have i got that right ? I imagine they have ATE stamped on them somewhere eh ? [so a wrecker doesnt send me some other type :{
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    No, the discs are the same size as 205, but the ATE calipers are better.
    S3 brakes are OK ,getting rid of the early S1/S2 Bendix calipers is the thing, also as an upgrade for Si brakes, I don't think the Si solid discs are a problem but once again the hydraulic ratios are wrong and it takes a lot of effort to stop the car.
    Yes, the weight of the GTi6 brakes is also a problem along with the grabby nature of them, this is probably why ABS was made mandatory on new cars!
    Graham

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    Why are the ATE ones better? Sorry to hijack..
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    91 205 Si
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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    Better stopping due I guess to larger piston size, also no clunks like the Bendix calipers have.
    Pretty sure the pad area is bigger also.
    I think the S3 Girlings are OK but much much harder to find.

    Speaking of this does anyone have a LHS S3 hub they wish to sell?
    I know I can use the early 306 ones but will have to do the machine and shim routine to get the camber right for the 205.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Why are the ATE ones better? Sorry to hijack..

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    Re the S3 hub Graham....you might be best of getting them from UK as i did all those years ago. [cheap too ] As you know they are scarce on the ground here.

    So this is what i need....correct me if i am wrong.....

    SI hubs [have got ]
    Early model 306 ATE calipers
    266mm discs
    Good new fluid
    New pads

    Hopefully that will be a brake upgrade on my present project as against using GTI6/ Brembo setups.
    Have i missed anything ?
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    I've got 266mm discs, 306/405 calipers to suit, and ferodo pads with good DOT 5 fluid on my car and the combo is perfect for a 16v 205. Agree that the 247mm brakes with good pads are adequate for an 8v though.

    You can also use the trailing arms off the 306 to give you a wider track, similar result to putting the 309 (?) beam in. Some of the 306 models have negative camber and toe in also, bit of googling required though because I'm unsure of your model, all that info is available though. Maybe try gtidrivers forum...

    I've got gti6 trailing arms and the result is great, both handling and looks wise.

    Pat
    205 gti-6

    205 track car build in progress http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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    I have 306 rear arms, cheaper way to get rear disc brakes, from an early 8 valve XSi IIRC.
    The track was then too wide so have fitted Mi16 wheels.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by patpug View Post
    I've got 266mm discs, 306/405 calipers to suit, and ferodo pads with good DOT 5 fluid on my car and the combo is perfect for a 16v 205. Agree that the 247mm brakes with good pads are adequate for an 8v though.

    You can also use the trailing arms off the 306 to give you a wider track, similar result to putting the 309 (?) beam in. Some of the 306 models have negative camber and toe in also, bit of googling required though because I'm unsure of your model, all that info is available though. Maybe try gtidrivers forum...

    I've got gti6 trailing arms and the result is great, both handling and looks wise.

    Pat

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I have 306 rear arms, cheaper way to get rear disc brakes, from an early 8 valve XSi IIRC.
    The track was then too wide so have fitted Mi16 wheels.
    Graham



    interesting you say the arms made the track too wide for you graham - the rear on mine is perfect with the 205 speedlines IMHO. Wheels fill the arches nicely and no scrubbing - even when trying very hard :-)


    Unless you had a 309 beam to begin with that us, mines still 205.
    205 gti-6

    205 track car build in progress http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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    My car is an Si, interesting that the GTi is wide enough.
    Also I need every mm of clearance as the wheels are moving to their maximum most of the time.
    I will need to do some surgery on the rear arches to fit 185 60 15 tyres after the 175 65 15 wear out as they are now unavailable as rally tyres.

    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by patpug View Post
    interesting you say the arms made the track too wide for you graham - the rear on mine is perfect with the 205 speedlines IMHO. Wheels fill the arches nicely and no scrubbing - even when trying very hard :-)


    Unless you had a 309 beam to begin with that us, mines still 205.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85 View Post
    Why are the ATE ones better? Sorry to hijack..
    The 306 ATE piston size is 48mm......the 205 ones are 48mm. So it has me stuffed ??? LOL
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    Also...where does 306 XSI calipers come into the mix? Are they the same as GTI6?
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    They work better than the early cars Bendix but occasionally you get Bendix brakes that are fine, maybe it is an age thing with the Bendix.
    We need to do a comparison with the pads but I've chucked all my Bendix stuff out.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    The 306 ATE piston size is 48mm......the 205 ones are 48mm. So it has me stuffed ??? LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    Also...where does 306 XSI calipers come into the mix? Are they the same as GTI6?
    Nope - gti6 discs are 283mm and XSI are 266mm. Piston size is bigger on the gti6 too. Some early and all late model S16s had the 283mm also.

    This is useful. So is this. Beware that the UK models sometimes differ though - just a guide.

    Go the 266mm unless you are going to the track a lot.

    Pat
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  21. #21
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    Good info there Pat.....appreciate!!
    It appears the 306 i have here may have the very calipers i am chasing....good luck or what !!! [they are the same as the XSI specs by the look ]
    Mmmmmm...
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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