Replacement car for PUG 205GTi?????
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  1. #1
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    Replacement car for PUG 205GTi?????

    Maybe I should have posted this here instead? (pasted from General)

    Hi All,

    I'm fairly new to the forum and I've recently sold my beloved '92 PUG 205 GTi. I want to start a thread about WHAT ppl liked/ disliked about the 205. And also WHAT new cars in the current Ozi market provides a similar or better driving experience than this car.

    Personally, I liked the Sharp Direct steering, fast "feel" of the vehicle and driver involvement, great throttle-response, "character" of the look and the interior.

    I did not like the flimsiness of the interior fittings, resulting in some rattles, the questionmark with French Parts reliabilty eg. my fuel pump had to changed twice during the 5-6 yrs I owned the vehicle.

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    Basically I am contemplating a SUBARU WRX, PUG 206 GTi180 at the moment. Or perhaps a Renault Clio Sport (but I dont know if I can live with those looks..). I want a car with the performance and driver enjoyment of the old 205 GTi but not the worries of maintaining one. Having said that, I do understand that the car is over 10 yrs old and current French models may/ may not have this problem? Only current 306GTi, 206GTI or 307 owners will know... any opinions on what you think is a good ride will be appreciated. I mean anything BELOW about $50K

    cheers
    *********A.K.A Eddy W*********
    " NOS! I need NOS!!...."
    92 PUG 205 GTi SIII Race Green... gone..gone..gone..

  2. #2
    nJm
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    Wait for the Citroen C2 VTR to come out...

    WRX isn't the hardcore car the 205 is. You might be disappointed. Also, either you'll love or hate turbo lag.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  3. #3
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Well I went for a spin in an 02 WRX Evo and it was pretty f&kin quick. Driver feedback wont be the same, but generally, the more refined a car is, the less involved it will be.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    I had a go in the WRX at Oran Park and found the MY00 to be very twichy in the corners, so much so that the REX drivers were virtually stopping before the corners and shooting like a bullet out of them (that acceleration really is nice) but the mid corner speed is nothing to write home about.
    .
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  5. #5
    nJm
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    My dad had a decent go in a 1997 WRX a few times (family member owns it). He said it gets very twitchy and also gets torque steer.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    What do you intend to do with tha car?? will it remain stock, or modded??, do you need room, features, etc??? id personaly go for none of these and get a Cooper S, it has all bases covered, fun handling, great straightline go, decent brakes, very good build and looks ever so good! plus tuning bits are already out for these. The BMW build means it wont shake to bits, but parts will be dear. 17's go straight on and look wicked hot. The are suprisingly roomy, about as good as 206Gti.
    Plus they have seen 155Kw from a intake kit, front mount cooler and 2.5"exhaust and extractors, all tuned throught the oem ECU, neat little machine, close to your $50K limit.
    cheers
    Xq

    ps if not get the Clio, its a better modern 205 gti
    ... ptui!

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! WRX2PUG's Avatar
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    Hi Eddy,

    As per my WRX2PUG NIC, I came from owning and racing WRXs to Peugeots so I've sort of done the reverse

    I've driven probably a hundred WRXs as we started the club here in WA and I help with driver training every few weeks. I also owned two, a MY97 and a MY99 STi Ver 6 with which we won a number of road/rally events.

    Personal opinion only, but the first thing I would say is that it is difficult to compare something like a WRX with any 2WD car like a 205. They are so different in terms of handling and performance characteristics that it is difficult to get a feel for it with one drive. I would also say that WRXs from 2000 onwards got a fair bit heavier. This was due to additional sound deadening and other 'creature comforts' focused on the US market which all had an affect on performance and feel of the car. I believe that the best WRXs to date from a driver-feel perspective are those between 97 and 99 with the 2 door (ver 5) and especially 4 door (ver 6) STi versions being the best of these. Also MY99 onwards have the bigger front brakes which are a definite worthwhile addition.

    Once you get a feel for a WRX, which requires a different driving style (slow in, fast out) they are an amazing, fast and very reliable performance car.

    The other car that I have been quite impressed with from a driver-feel perspective is the original Honda Integra-Type R - amazing motor, very well tuned FWD handling. Unfortunately the current one we get is not the true Type-R but a detuned version but I feel that the original one is a real drivers car, much like the 205 GTi.

    I've also been amazed by the performance and handling of the Clio-sport. With some R-spec tyres and some minor suspension mods, these have been very competitive in the motorsport arena over here. I'm not sure what they're like as a daily driver though?

    Anyway, just my 2 cents

    Good luck with whatever you choose
    Steve
    Renault Clio F1R27 road car and Supercharged Lotus Elise track car

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    how long did u own the 205 for???...the reason i ask this is that i think although a new replacement might be more reliable and so on u dont really know what kind of hasles u might encounter with any of the abovementioned vehicles if u r a SPIRITED driver....i m sure many of the rex drivers found out pretty quickly how crap the ir gearboxes were (early versions)...many new vehicles seem to experiance fast rotor and pad destruction (check replacement cost) etc etc etc...time flies and and in a couple of years time (when your warranty expires) god knows how reliable your possibly thrashed machine will be...sure its fine if you can afford it (ie. just keep replacing) but it kind of defies the logic of chasing a 205 replacement...time after time we hear of people who have sold theirs and have regreteted it...dont mean 2 be pessimistic ...just my 2 c worth...for my money..i d chase up an R33 and still get a couple years warranty...

    cheers
    dino

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    A 147 will give you the horn, though its not a rocket. Hard to go past a clio sport given where you are coming from, though it is a cheaper style of car than a 147.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
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    WRX2PUG:


    Personal opinion only, but the first thing I would say is that it is difficult to compare something like a WRX with any 2WD car like a 205. They are so different in terms of handling and performance characteristics that it is difficult to get a feel for it with one drive.
    I agree with this.

    But whatever else you may say about it, the WRX is an absolute bombshell. If you want pure adrenaline injections get behind the wheel of a Rex. Unbelievable. I remember driving one in 2000, and then shortly afterwards driving a then-current four-banger Audi and a Porsche Boxster, and the Rex was hands-down the winner as a driver's car. The Porsche was like a smaller, quicker, Merc. Dead from the neck up. It felt very safe. Terrible thing in a sports car.

    And the Audi was, well, just like a Merc. The Rex is like a 205 in that it handles, goes, stops, and you feel it all. They do have some torque steer, but only under strong acceleration, and any car which accelerates like that can do anything it likes, in my opinion!

    Sounds like the Clio is similar to the 205, as one would expect, except I agree about the looks!!! Can anyone say, "Mazda 121"???

    My sister had a 306 for a few years, and I have to say it was impressive in every way except the usual slightly mordern build quality. One of the exterior mirrors fell out a few weeks after she bought it brand new.

    Is the new 206 hot-hatch that I read about recently going to be released here? Or is it already out there? Surely that would be an option to replace a 205, no?

    Cheers,
    John Lane.
    Current: 406 Coupe, 504 Sedan

    Previous: 306XSi, 205GTi, 206Gti, 505 V6, 505 Wagon, 504 Sedan, 504 Wagon, 306Gti6, 306XT, 205Si, Citroen XM, Citroen Xantia

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! ipb205's Avatar
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    [quote]aquinian:
    Originally posted by WRX2PUG:
    [qb]

    But whatever else you may say about it, the WRX is an absolute bombshell. If you want pure adrenaline injections get behind the wheel of a Rex. Unbelievable.
    Have you considered a 2nd hand E36 M3?
    The 3.2 litre cars are becoming increasingly more available due to age and depreciation.
    I have just finished driving the E46 SMG for 3 days. What a car!
    The E36 has slightly less power but is still overly capable and one of the best engines on earth.

    ipb

  12. #12
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    I think WRX2PUG was on the right track with the Honda Integra Type-R. They are naturally aspirated therefore you can actually get reasonable insurance for them.

    The latest Type-R (DC5R) is better than the old one, although you can get another Type-R version in Japan the Australian spec one is a 'real' Type-R (The Australia version). They have a bigger engine than the old one (DC2R) 2.0 vs 1.8.

    Although a WRX is ultimately quicker it is numbing to drive, doesn't give the kind of feedback a Type-R does. You get to the end of a twisty road in a Type-R and you really felt like you worked for it, many gear changes, keeping the revs in the power zone (6000rpm+) lift off oversteer, all the good stuff!

    All that said if you are on this forum you are probably a French car fan... the Clio sport (original version if you can get it) isn't far off the Integra, and is cheaper.

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    There is the Alfa 147 GTA coming - 6 cyl. the thing will humm....

    Also the VW golf R32, 6 cyl AWD...that would be relatively quick as well. Problem is i think these cars will be priced around the 60k mark - maybe just under.
    1993 Peugeot 405 Mi 16 S2

  14. #14
    nJm
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    ipb205:
    Have you considered a 2nd hand E36 M3?
    The 3.2 litre cars are becoming increasingly more available due to age and depreciation.
    I have just finished driving the E46 SMG for 3 days. What a car!
    The E36 has slightly less power but is still overly capable and one of the best engines on earth.

    ipb
    Aren't they wonderful? My uncle was most impressed that BMW managed to ship out an new engine from Germany for his E46 and have it fitted within 5 business days. Still, for an engine to fail at 19,500kms isn't the best. Apparently there was a manufactoring problem with the connecting rods or something?

    The E36 is meant to be more of an untamed animal than the E46. That, and it looks far more understated so would make an excellent sleeper/Q car .
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    I've been in a few Rexes and I must say I was disappointed. It left that dull feeling with me.

    Quite honestly the best cars I have ever driven would be a GTi6 and my 205. Every time you drive them you know you are alive.

    I've also driven the Clio and thought that was an absolute ripper as well.]

    Have you considered an Audi S3? You've got Euro styling, Audi build quality, leather everywhere, 4wd turbo. And they look bloody excellent.

    Darren

  16. #16
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    Hey Eddie

    Having checked out the types that frequent the WRX forum that you emailed me .... don't do it!

    Only joking. As you know i have just gone from an my00 Audi turbo quattro to a 205gti.

    Simply put, i have not wiped the smile of my face ... i wake up in the morning before my alarm "anxious" about wanting to drive it. I never experienced this before.

    So my point is, new expensive cars don't necessarily give you everything you want. My 2 cents:

    If new probably a toss up b/w ClioRS & Focus ST170:
    - Cooper S (contrary to xqisid) driving this i found it to be a piece of crap ... it did not come close to the audi in terms of quality, performance, handling, gearing etc etc. very disappointed as i loved its styling.
    - Clio RS (124kw), can never seem to work out whether i like the looks or not. From a performance pov, its best in class, if the reviews are anything to go by. However known to have build/trim quality issues.
    - Focus ST170 (127kw) - try to find GTI124's write-up on this yesterday (can't remember the thread) ..... seems he was very impressed - worth a serious look
    - 206GTI180 (133kw) .... good styling but not sure about responsiveness.
    - WRX - i think a big car for zippy city driving and yes.

    If Used:
    - S3 (165kw), i would love an S3 .... but cannot justify the cost, early (154kw) high km examples go for around the $50k mark.
    - E36M3, 80-120km cars go for around $45-50k mark. Yes i loved driving this car but hard to find examples not thrashed.
    - Porsche 968, around $40k for pristine examples.... sensational. My choice for value in this upper price range.

    I guess that's my 4! cents worth.

    PS more than happy to go test driving with you mate.
    ashleyt

    --------
    1993 205GTI Sorrento Green
    1990 205GTI Red - Track Car ("431")

    EC:2:02.18, WP:1:16.07, OP 54.27, OPGP 1:28.83, Huntley 32.34

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    I've been looking for a replacement for my aging 205 for a while now without much success.

    WRXs are fast and handle quite well when you get your head around how they corner.....but are both "too" fast and too dull....unless you are travelling at light speed

    Clio sports was a surprise, as I didn't feel it lived up to the hype....great engine....that's about all that stood out to me...it's a good package that filled a niche gap in the market at one time....many competitors will be out for it in the next 6months ( 140kw corolla, astra turbo, 206gti 180 etc )

    I like the 206gti, drove nicely, handles great (better than a stock clio sport for my money)...pedals you get used to eventually....performance was good compared to it's direct price rivals.....left me cold compared to the 205 though

    The 147....once you take away any percieved value you place on "style"....is overpriced for what it is....( i'd rather have a reliable 75 3lt thanks )......the GTA should be great though

    s15 200sx are good too.....but hard to justify their value over and S13 that be picked up for less than a 3rd of the price and essentially has the same running gear......

    barina SRIs are the quiet achiever, and actually an excellent drive for the money...but are a barina

    GTI6s are a great car too, although i love the way 306s handle......there is always a slightly soft/"vague" point in their transition from corner to corner, hard to describe....the way they transfer weight around and the passive steer just doesn't quite do it for me.

    Aaaand i can't even find a Volvo that can replace the 205, though i'm sure pug307 could recommend a couple with figures to back them up

    hehe, there's plenty of stuff i don't like about the 205 too though

  18. #18
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    Sillsun:


    Having said that, I do understand that the car is over 10 yrs old and current French models may/ may not have this problem? Only current 306GTi, 206GTI or 307 owners will know...
    Maybe I've been lucky.... but in 4 years and 5 months of ownership, my GTI6 has had no mechanical problems whatsoever. No warranty claims, and no mechanical work other than normal maintenance items

    cheers
    Mark

  19. #19
    XTC
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    WRX2PUG:
    Personal opinion only, but the first thing I would say is that it is difficult to compare something like a WRX with any 2WD car like a 205. They are so different in terms of handling and performance characteristics that it is difficult to get a feel for it with one drive.
    Steve's certainly driven / owned quite a few performance cars in his time, but even he will admit when compared to his awesome 205Mi16 the standard 206GTi certainly is no slow coach, particularily when it comes to the handling department - that's why the 206GTi180 is something to wait for. (if they EVER get here !)

    XTC206
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
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  20. #20
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    Thanks folks for all the opinions and experiences.
    Though I'm no closer to deciding what I want! What you've said has def. made me think twice about getting a Rex unless I've test driven it properly. And some of the the other models listed here too if I can a chance. head_ban

    Citroen C2 VTR- is that the succesor to the SAXO VTS? Found 2 links here while researching:

    <a href="http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6E7C9D29A30D4E77CA256D250003A52D" target="_blank">http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6E7C9D29A30D4E77CA256D250003A52D</a>

    <a href="http://www.autoguide.ee/eng/news/030508/citroen-c2.php" target="_blank">http://www.autoguide.ee/eng/news/030508/citroen-c2.php</a>

    A supermini. Strange side-profile styling though- it kinda looks like the front section and rear section behind the B-pillar are separate halves. Looking at going one size larger than a supermini though...seems almost a PUG 106 size....

    Tekkie, Steve (WRX2PUG) you said the Rex had lack of mid-corner speed. Is that in real terms or "driver feel"? I saw a review on Track by Cameron McConville. The 306 GTi-6 was rated very highly (as expected) for turn-in and cornering "feel", but the mid corner speeds were always higher for the Rex. The views here are mixed, most agree the REX drives more numb (more weight, comforts, less raw) but some Steve, Aquilian have enjoyed their drives of their Turbo cars

    Torque Steer- Steve, is that worst in the PUGs or the REX? I heard alot of slowin fastout. I always believed that was the technique for FWDs, inc the PUGs. The PUG can be thrown in the corner with less braking than a REX? And how BAD really is that Rex gearbox issue? And the Torbo lag? I have alwayz driven NA.

    2nd hand M3s and Porches, would love to but deathly afraid of potential maintenance costs! I've owned my PUG for almost 6 yrs, but low maintenance will be a high priority. I can safely say i dun have the experience and tinkering ability of some of my fellow froggies here. Whatever I get I will only mildly modify- perhaps an exhaust and ECU and filter is the max.

    Ashley, thats a big list of cars you've driven mate! Thanks all for their 2c's worth - i think meself has some test driving to do!
    *********A.K.A Eddy W*********
    " NOS! I need NOS!!...."
    92 PUG 205 GTi SIII Race Green... gone..gone..gone..

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    Thanks folks for all the opinions and experiences.
    Though I'm no closer to deciding what I want! What you've said has def. made me think twice about getting a Rex unless I've test driven it properly. And some of the the other models listed here too if I can a chance. head_ban

    Citroen C2 VTR- is that the succesor to the SAXO VTS? Found 2 links here while researching:

    <a href="http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6E7C9D29A30D4E77CA256D250003A52D" target="_blank">http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/6E7C9D29A30D4E77CA256D250003A52D</a>

    <a href="http://www.autoguide.ee/eng/news/030508/citroen-c2.php" target="_blank">http://www.autoguide.ee/eng/news/030508/citroen-c2.php</a>

    A supermini. Strange side-profile styling though- it kinda looks like the front section and rear section behind the B-pillar are separate halves. Looking at going one size larger than a supermini though...seems almost a PUG 106 size....

    Tekkie, Steve (WRX2PUG) you said the Rex had lack of mid-corner speed. Is that in real terms or "driver feel"? I saw a review on Track by Cameron McConville. The 306 GTi-6 was rated very highly (as expected) for turn-in and cornering "feel", but the mid corner speeds were always higher for the Rex. The views here are mixed, most agree the REX drives more numb (more weight, comforts, less raw) but some Steve, Aquilian have enjoyed their drives of their Turbo cars

    Torque Steer- Steve, is that worst in the PUGs or the REX? I heard alot of slowin fastout. I always believed that was the technique for FWDs, inc the PUGs. The PUG can be thrown in the corner with less braking than a REX? And how BAD really is that Rex gearbox issue? And the Torbo lag? I have alwayz driven NA.

    2nd hand M3s and Porches, would love to but deathly afraid of potential maintenance costs! I've owned my PUG for almost 6 yrs, but low maintenance will be a high priority. I can safely say i dun have the experience and tinkering ability of some of my fellow froggies here. Whatever I get I will only mildly modify- perhaps an exhaust and ECU and filter is the max.

    Ashley, thats a big list of cars you've driven mate! Thanks all for their 2c's worth - i think meself has some test driving to do!
    *********A.K.A Eddy W*********
    " NOS! I need NOS!!...."
    92 PUG 205 GTi SIII Race Green... gone..gone..gone..

  22. #22
    nJm
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    In the 1997 WRX in our family it has really bad lag. It feels like a normal impreza until you hit somewhere around 2700rpm and then 'whoosh'! You get a shove in the back and off it goes. I'm sure it would be a lot of fun if you're driving hard, however for day to day traffic if might be annoying? I know the relative who owns it often takes off in 1st, then shifts straight to 3rd to stop the turbo kicking in (literally) in peak hour traffic.

    I don't mind light pressure turbos like the ones the swedes use, but high pressure ones aren't my thing. Give me a decent NA engine any day.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Sillsun:

    Tekkie, Steve (WRX2PUG) you said the Rex had lack of mid-corner speed. Is that in real terms or "driver feel"? I saw a review on Track by Cameron McConville. The 306 GTi-6 was rated very highly (as expected) for turn-in and cornering "feel", but the mid corner speeds were always higher for the Rex. The views here are mixed, most agree the REX drives more numb (more weight, comforts, less raw) but some Steve, Aquilian have enjoyed their drives of their Turbo cars
    You are right, it "FELT" slower, the brakes felt like you were ready to fly out the front window (upgraded slotted units in the REX I drove) but a lot more violent to my GTi and the stopping seemed on par but pug did it a lot more ... easily?
    The corner thing was from the smoothness perspective, the car felt like it couldnt decide if it wanted to push/pull and ended up doing neither. It just felt "numb" and you ended up coasting through the corner in comparison to the GTi that could be driven through the same corner. Thats the best I can describe it.
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  24. #24
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    I haven't driven a gti-6, but i was amazed at how you can throw a clio sport into a corner. Just like the 205 but faster. Like most atmo multi valves hade to keep the revs right to boot it out.Under 50 grand, Some Germans have the quality (BMW m3, Porsche 968, last 944 turbo), Jap lots of aftermarket parts (WRX, Rx7 after 93 and R32 Skyline gtr). They're all good cars, some have four doors for the family and mates. Less $$$ to maintain cars without super/turbo in the long run. I think for versatility the WRX does it all - its better than the porsche boxter. I really liked the clio sport its just the resale. As for looks, check out GTI magazine there's some hot french cars. A aussie magazine editor still loves the 205 and he drives cars for a living. Price wise you could have a legend of a car (moded 205) for less than the price of a shity new car ~ 22 grand.
    Present: 406 petrol 2.0 turbo 97(GB Import), 205 gti 1.9 89, Yamaha TZR250 3xv 93 (Jap Import)

    Past: 205 gti 1.6 1988 (Singpr Import), Citroen 1.9 BX16valve, 405 1.9 mi16, 405 2.0 mi16,
    205 si 93, Mini GT, Datsun SSS x3, Dodge Ram, kingswood, Yamaha TZR250 2ma x2


    Hey mate...You've left your Barina's lights on

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    Fellow Frogger! WRX2PUG's Avatar
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    Eddy, not wanting to push WRXs as I think you now have a good range of suggestions including some fantastic NA cars

    But.. to answer to some of your questions re Rexes.. The short answer is that almost every person you speak to will give you a different driving impression of the WRX. I think there are two key reasons for this:

    1) A WRX (or any turbo-4wd performance car) is so different to what we are normally used to driving that they do require a different driving style/technique and this does take getting some used to. A lot of the numb feeling described by people is due to the fact that the limits in a WRX are a lot higher than even a good FWD or RWD car and this combined with getting used to keeping the turbo on boost takes a while.
    2) WRXs themselves differ so much from car to car, year to year.

    I'll expand a little on this last point. The early 1994-1996 WRXs had quite a large turbo, a fair amount of lag, were a little underbraked and the seats lacked the side-support needed for the handling forces that the car could generate. In 1997, a lot was changed in the car - seats were supportive, brakes were improved and the turbo was quite a lot smaller, reducing most of the lag and providing better performance (also due to a different intercooler etc).

    From 1997 onwards, and I think in every single year without exception, the turbo sizes have changed and so boost will come in at different rpm and run out of breath at different rpm. The other thing is that the cars themselves can actually differ in performance based on how the car is set up or tuned, even as they come from the factory - we've proved this in several dyno days and quarter mile runs. My totally standard 1997 WRX did a 13.6 quarter mile 2 weeks after I got it. We've checked boost on new WRXs and have found quite dramatic differences between cars. The ECU in earlier models can also go into a 'retard' mode where it will limit boost until reset - some people drive their WRX around like this for months or longer without realising..

    As much as I love my 205s and enjoy driving mine every single day, I can still say that the WRX is still a weapon of choice in terms of motorsport events and consistently beats out pretty much everything else in most events.

    I do think the WRX has become a little numb in terms of driver feedback as it got heavier from 2000 onwards. You're talking around a 150kg weight difference with not enough additional power/torque.

    It really depends on what you want in a car and how much it will be a daily driver versus a club-motorsport car as in the end some form of compromise is likely. When I sold my WRXs and bought the 205 Mi16, what I wanted was something raw, wild and something that provided 100% driver feedback. This is what I got! But boy oh boy every time I go over a bump in the road, I know what I'm driving.

    If you want an all round, reliable, true high performance car then you won't go wrong if you buy a good WRX. If you want more of a raw and engaging driving experience than I guess you're back to the choices above - all of which are great cars

    Must be late as I'm now telling stories but anyway... Last Saturday I helped out as an instructor at driver training for the WRX club at Barbagello raceway. I had 3 students. One owned a 2002 STi, another a 1999 standard WRX and the third, a Commodore R8 with GTS brakes. We had a mix of dry and wet weather during the day and I drove in each of these cars for several laps and then did several laps in my 205 Mi16. I had an absolute ball in every single one of the cars including the R8 whose performance and braking impressed me a lot - until it rained I couldn't keep up with the WRXs in the 205 (yet) but I know who came off the track with the biggest smile on their face - horses for courses.

    In the end, I think if you chose any of the cars suggested you'll be happy and in the end, we're not married to our cars - although I'm not sure my wife believes me.

    Cheers
    Steve
    Renault Clio F1R27 road car and Supercharged Lotus Elise track car

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