holden VL rb30 radiator into a 504?????????????
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  1. #1
    mud
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    Default holden VL rb30 radiator into a 504?????????????

    the answer is yes, it fits quite well.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Goodbye to all cooling problems!

    And very cheap conversion too.

    Tell us what hoses you used, preferably the aftermarket numbers.

    It may be worth isolating the radiator from the car body "ground", as per original radiator, to avoid electrolysis issue especially with aluminium. This should not be too hard with some big nylon washers and plastic tube as insulators for the bolt shanks.

    I think it would be a worthwhile mod.

    EDIT: Well done a very neat conversion it looks like it "grew" there.
    Last edited by robmac; 15th December 2012 at 05:50 PM.
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    Neat.

    I wish to do the same with a 504-engined 404. May I ask what radiator hoses you used

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    The VL radiator won't fit in a 404.

    There is not enough room behind the grille nor height above the subframe. 504s have a lot more room.

    Your best bet is 505 cross flow radiator out of 505 GR or SR.

    Standard 505 hoses will fit provided you use a 505 water pump.

    Mock up the radiator suspended by the hoses then make brackets around that position. I didn't do this and it was much more work and involved cutting hoses.

    EDIT: you need to cut out a section of radiator panel to get all of the radiator exposed to ram air.

    I'll post or email pics, but in another thread if you ask.
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    mud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exfrogger View Post
    Neat.

    I wish to do the same with a 504-engined 404. May I ask what radiator hoses you used

    P
    i just used the original 504 hoses, they were a close enough fit...........when (if) they fail, i will fit 505 hoses, as they are slightly smaller.

    it cost a lot less to do this then it did to re-core the old radiator (lowest quote i got was 500 bucks)

    have taken it for a short drive in the heat of the day, no issues, temp gauge stayed on half way, the real tiest will be a long drive on a hot day....will let you know how it goes)

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    I should add though, it wasnt all plain sailing.........the VL radiator has nowhere to put a thermoswitch in, as the VL runs a viscus hub fan.

    no big deal though, just a trip down to the local engineering place, make up an aluminium spigot with a M22 x 1.5 internal thread, cut a small hole near the outlet hose, and weld spigot on, only cost me 80 bucks and took about an hour.

    other then that everything just falls into place.

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    Long drives won't be an issue IMHO.
    I think you'll have to keep your eyes open on the temp gauge in heavy traffic and see whether your electric fan can keep up or you need a bigger one.
    Also make sure you have an override switch for the fan just in case.
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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Mud,
    Were you able to retain a 4 lb pressure cap? Amazing that the 504 hoses matched up. How have you mounted the lower radiator to the X member?
    Please oh please shift that plastic fuel filter to the inlet side of the fuel pump.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mud View Post
    I should add though, it wasnt all plain sailing.........the VL radiator has nowhere to put a thermoswitch in, as the VL runs a viscus hub fan.

    no big deal though, just a trip down to the local engineering place, make up an aluminium spigot with a M22 x 1.5 internal thread, cut a small hole near the outlet hose, and weld spigot on, only cost me 80 bucks and took about an hour.

    other then that everything just falls into place.
    Tridon make a huge range of temperature switches. Last time I did a conversion I found one that turned on at around 80c and off a bit lower and fitted into the standard hole.

    http://www.tridon.com.au/Products/Pr...5&G=483&P=2014


    However at $80 you got a good price and the tridon units are around $50.
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    Default holden VL rb30 radiator into a 504?????????????

    I recently had a lesson in thermo fans which I'll pass on. The clutch fan in my Nissan Patrol failed. Rather than replace it for $400, I decided to fit two pull through thermos. It needed a recore as well, so had that done and told the rad guy what I was up to. He warned me it wouldn't work in tough conditions eg sand and slow hill climbing. I of course knew better and he wished me luck. Like you, I fitted an M22 bung and a dual speed relay setup from a 205. It was winter, so all was well. Heaps quieter, more power, what could go wrong?

    Like the rad guy predicted, in traffic, hot weather, the two fans just couldn't move enough air. The std setup had a cowling, so ALL the radiator had air moving past it. With clip on thermos, probably only 60-70% of the radiator has air flow.

    In hindsight, I should have sourced a double pull through set up from a Falcon. In the end I gave up and spent $400.

    The single push through clip-on, mounted on my 205 track car, works perfectly however.

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    mud
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Mud,
    Were you able to retain a 4 lb pressure cap? Amazing that the 504 hoses matched up. How have you mounted the lower radiator to the X member?
    Please oh please shift that plastic fuel filter to the inlet side of the fuel pump.
    the radiator cap that came with the radiator works fine, not sure what pressure its set at though.

    the bottom of the radiator has a length of 50 x 3mm aluminium angle. its bolted to the bottom of the radiator and uses the original two mounting bolts with rubbers. see crude picture below.

    the two brackets at the top stop it from rocking back and forth on the angle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Tridon make a huge range of temperature switches. Last time I did a conversion I found one that turned on at around 80c and off a bit lower and fitted into the standard hole.

    http://www.tridon.com.au/Products/Pr...5&G=483&P=2014


    However at $80 you got a good price and the tridon units are around $50.

    80 bucks was to get the spiggot welded on.........i got a brand new genuine peugeot thermo switch for 25bucks

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Mud,

    Stick with a low pressure radiator cap, 4lb suggested 5 lb proven to be OK. The engine will cope if it's a square port engine but the heater core will burst at the seams.

    Don't ask how I know.

    AFAIK the Holden caps are over 10 lbs pressure -too much for the heater core.

    cheers


    Rob
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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=robmac;1126178]Mud,

    Stick with a low pressure radiator cap, 4lb suggested 5 lb proven to be OK. The engine will cope if it's a square port engine but the heater core will burst at the seams.

    Don't ask how I know.

    AFIK the Holden caps are over 10lbs pressure,, too much for the heater core.


    Rob[/ Quote.]


    Ditto to Robmac above.
    I've been told that the 404/504 cooling systems rely on circulation mainly. Hence the low pressure cap [4lb].
    You may find it difficult to obtain a small type of 4lb cap. My suggestion is fit a coolant reclaim bottle with a normal readily available reclaim cap. [I use a mini type bottle on my 504]. Remove the valve arrangement from the original VL cap.

    Pro. radiator gurus will tell you the VL cap will be OK. Rubbish! If you want to overcome cyl liner seals and one or two other 504 weaknesses go ahead

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    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    I once had an Alice Springs mechanic talk me into fitting a Holden radiator core (this was the 1970's) into a Peugeot 403 because of the price saving. Turned out to be far less efficient than the original. He also thought he was doing me a favour fitting a higher pressure cap. The resultant head gasket repair, even doing it myself, cost far more than the price "saving" achieved with the radiator etc.
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    The pressure will only rise to the rated pressure of the cap (say 13lbs) if the temperature rises above boiling point.
    Until then the pressure is low and simply due to expansion of the water and maybe some pressure from the water pump action. You only get a geyser from the filler neck if the car is overheating, only a slight hiss if at normal operating temperature when the cap is removed.
    If the pressure in an early Peugeot cooling system was being regulated at 4 psi during normal running the radiator would empty itself in a short time as it let off pressure.
    Higher pressure caps are simply to create a higher boiling point, this will allow the engine to run hotter and be more efficient. If you were to drive your early Peugeot in this zone, then yes, gasket problems may arise
    but usually they sit happily at 85c.

    I agree that the 403 radiator is totally adequate, not the case in the 203 until you place a piece of cardboard or corflute in the horizontal open area behind the grill. The bodywork blocks air flow to the radiator and it goes underneath the car instead unless you fit the corflute shield.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Hagen View Post
    I once had an Alice Springs mechanic talk me into fitting a Holden radiator core (this was the 1970's) into a Peugeot 403 because of the price saving. Turned out to be far less efficient than the original. He also thought he was doing me a favour fitting a higher pressure cap. The resultant head gasket repair, even doing it myself, cost far more than the price "saving" achieved with the radiator etc.

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    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Yes, the problem with "Holden rad core in 403" coupled with the higher pressure cap in Central Aus heat was that the replacement radiator was actually less efficient than the original, forcing up temps, and thus pressure, with untoward consequence.

    Presumably more recent Holden cores are far more efficient than those they used back in the 70's. Certainly hope so!
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    mud
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    hmmmm well this aluminium radiator is supposed to be a thicker core then the original holden one...

    all i know is i took the car, with three people, for a drive to boonah and back yesterday, we left at lunch time so we were driving in the heat of the day, and included one traffic jam, temp gauge never went above half.

    i also heeded your warnings and got a lower pressure radiator cap from super cheap today, managed to get a 7psi one, i could of gotten a 4psi one but i would have had to order it in. i think 7psi will be fine.

    so far i cant fault the new radiator and fan, its great peace of mind.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    The radiator is so much bigger than original my prediction is that you will have zero problems.

    Mud does you car have a square port engine? IE the cylinder head with 40mm diameter plugs instead of the 90 mm odd diameter pressure plugs? These are safe with 7psi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    In hindsight, I should have sourced a double pull through set up from a Falcon. In the end I gave up and spent $400.
    I can vouch for the Falcon setup. I had them on my 505 GTDT (fits the radiator like they were made for it) with a manual switch for the single speed fan, the double speed fan was wired into the existing air conditioning condensor fan circuitry. The second fan only ever got used on 40+ days with the airconditioning going and sporadically at that.

    The sheer volume of air with both fans going full tilt makes a viscous fan seem like a joke. Can't go wrong for approx $50 second hand off ebay.
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    mud
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    The radiator is so much bigger than original my prediction is that you will have zero problems.

    Mud does you car have a square port engine? IE the cylinder head with 40mm diameter plugs instead of the 90 mm odd diameter pressure plugs? These are safe with 7psi.
    yes ive got the square port engine, its the original engine that came with the car (numbers match up) the car has done 420 odd thousand k's, not sure if the engine has been rebuilt or not.

    so far no problems, was driving around stop start stop start today in the heat and it all performed well.

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Graham,
    Call me Mr Thicky but..
    "If the pressure in an early Peugeot cooling system was being regulated at 4psi during normal running the radiator would empty itself in a short time as it let off pressure"?

    Surely a Peugeot system with 4psi cap and good original radiator etc shouldn't dump its coolant in a short time?
    Mr Peugeot couldn't have got it wrong for the last 60 odd years?

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    So it isn't being regulated at 4PSi, only when the temperature gets over 100c does the pressure eventually build up to 4 psi, then the cap releases the pressure.
    By running a 13 lb cap still higher boiling points can be achieved, but 13 lb will only be present when the temp is way over 100c.
    Graham

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    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    As I read it, Graham was talking about a situation where a higher pressure cap than 4 psi was needed to prevent boiling because of cooling system deficiencies. In such sits , the original 4 psi cap would not prevent boiling, but the higher pressure cap has the potential to cause damage to gaskets & other components in the cooling system not designed to cope with such pressure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Hagen View Post
    As I read it, Graham was talking about a situation where a higher pressure cap than 4 psi was needed to prevent boiling because of cooling system deficiencies. In such sits , the original 4 psi cap would not prevent boiling, but the higher pressure cap has the potential to cause damage to gaskets & other components in the cooling system not designed to cope with such pressure.
    The main reason 13 lb caps are used is to enable engines to run close to 100c and still have a safety margin when the temp goes over this.
    It is good to run engines as hot as possible to obtain greater efficiency.
    The main point I'm making though is that the cooling system won't run at the rated pressure of the cap until it is about to boil.
    Graham

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