What to race? 405mi16 or 306s16
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  1. #1
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    Default What to race? 405mi16 or 306s16

    I have the choice of these two lovely cars to set up for a bit of track work next year. Which of these will be the most rewarding is my dillemma. Surely there has been enough of you racing these to give an honest appraisel of the good and bad points for these two cars?
    Geoff.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Geoff,

    I have never raced a 405 but others have so will await their response. I would personally pick the lightest car to ensure you have a good power to weight ratio. Also there seems to be more track aftermarket equipment for the 306 than the 405 available.

    But this is going to be just an occasional track car then go with your heart, I run a 205gti because I love the styling and their racing history, logic tells me I should be running a Toyota Starlet if I wanted FWD or a MX5 for rear whell drive, but I have no desire for these cars.

    My 2c worth.

    Parry
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Same as Parry. Whilst there were both S1 and S2 405 Touring cars, there has been a lot more entry level gear made for 306. Having said that, the cost of getting off the ground will be identical. ie cage, bigger torsion bars and LSD.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    I've never driven an s16 hard but being shorter does it get more lift off oversteer? I know the mi16's pretty good for that. I'd go for the mi16 but I definately have centimental reason for doing so! And a lot more parts!
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  5. #5
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    How much does aerodynamics play a part in this level of racing? I'd think a 405 could have an edge in this area, if applicable.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Can you define what you mean by 'race'?

    Is it for timed laps (sprints), competing in the State Championship under 2 litre class or just a bit of weekend fun?

    Unless you've got a 1.9 litre 405, both cars are similar in weight.

    Both 1.9 & 2.0 litre engines have major flaws which will show up on the track if left unmodified.

    Personally, the heart says 405, but in reality a 306 would be far easier to develop -if that's the plan.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  7. #7
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    405s have got the runs on the board, John Austin and 405 racer here in Vic, don't know any 306s that have done anything.
    405 slightly lighter than 306.
    I run a 205 on gravel but would certainly use a 405 if I decided to go bitumen.
    Graham

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the comments. Only looking for a weekend or two, timed laps. Nothing serious or state level. too old for that. Jeff you mentioned major flaws in both engine types. Have you some info to share on this?
    Geoff.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    The 1.9 Mi & & 2.0 litre Mi16/S16 heads are essentially the same & the general concensus is they have too small a drain hole at the cambelt end. The oil pools in the head and doesn't drain back to the sump quick enough to guarantee a continuous supply of oil to the pump.

    The problem occurs mostly during left hand cornering or sudden changes of direction and can be influenced by such things as tyre types (R spec or slicks) eg: the double left hander onto the main straight at Phillip Island (trashed engine #1 for me), the other at a relatively benign Sandown- engine #2).

    PSA began acknowledging the problem with the iron block engines by fitting sump baffles, windage tray, higher oil pump pressure, & oil pump sprocket cover.

    The later 1.8 litre XU7JP4 & 2.0 litre XU10J4R & J4RS heads were completely redesigned & among other changes had much larger drains resulting in fewer oil surge related problems.

    I'm no expert, moreso a victim of my own naivety, but have listened to the knowledgeable ones & taken steps against further failures based on my own experiences.

    Hope this helps.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  10. #10
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    Hi Jeff. Thanks for your answers. These things are what i want to know before finding out the hard way.Will have a look at oil return and see what can be fixed.It would seem that there is nothing but personal choice to separate these two cars. I will have to do some seat time in each to pick one out.
    Have had a few years in the mk1 mi16, doing motorkhana and khanacross. gearbox/diff finally threw it in this year. had only done 485k. cannot understand why it broke??? motor is still very sweet and pulls like a train. Geoff

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    There's a discussion about oil issues on the 205Drivers forum atm. Gets interesting around Pages 4, 5, 6. Worth a read.

    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...=137900&page=6
    Last edited by pgti6; 11th December 2012 at 11:29 PM.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  12. #12
    I might be slow... DRTDVL's Avatar
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    I'd go the 306 S16 personally, owned one for years and it doesn't take much to make them competitive.

    There is a much much larger selection of off the shelf parts for them. They handle great, lift-off oversteer isn't that much of an issue - it's a LOT less than the 205s.

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