ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,541

    Default ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe

    Last night I embarked on this adventure. Original engine (ES9J4) came out last night, and today I have spent swapping the ancilliaries over from the old engine to the new engine. I had just gotten the transmission refitted to the engine before I called it a day.

    Advertisement


    Tomorrow I will work on the wiring and refit the engine assembly.

    Has anyone else tried such a combination?
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! James504's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Are you swapping harness and ecu over aswell? The VVT is where the majority of HP come from over the es9j4. Also the drive by wire throttle bolt pattern is slightly smaller than the cable throttle(if you are not using the j4s or es9A harness+managment and original metal inlet manifold), not a hard obstacle but still time consuming none the less. Good luck.
    2006 Peugeot 206 Xt
    1991 Toyota mx83 grande 1jzgte

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Linton.Victoria.
    Posts
    1,237

    Default Pugspeak

    Hi-Sounds like you guys are speaking in 'code'-so for the 'simple' is the ones like me -is the ES9J4S the D9 donk.

    "Some say" that the D8 motor was the better deal.

    Hope the 403 is making headway.

    Cheers,
    Pekay.

  4. #4
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    James - I don't think the VVT is directly responsible for the extra power, I think the VVT allows for more aggressive cams and higher compression ratios, and the VVT compensates for them at lower revs. The inlet camshafts in the ES9J4S are advanced 15 degrees between 1000 and 4500rpm, above 65% of engine load. After that, the VVT disengages entirely.

    I'm keeping the original management system, and using a frequency switch to drive the VVT. I have to make an adapter for the original throttle body. I'll do that probably Monday.

    Pekay - yes, the ES9J4 (XFZ) was used in the D8 406s, and the ES9J4S (XFX) in the D9.

    And the 403 is still slowly trundling forward, but oil in the water in the 406 was a cause for concern, so this project was pushed up the priority list!
    Last edited by Demannu; 31st October 2013 at 09:08 PM.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Ikenna351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Abuja, Nigeria.
    Posts
    297

    Default

    Hmm!

    Scotty, i look forward to the completion of the swap. Hope it makes a lot of difference.

    Ikenna.

  6. #6
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    Well, the engine in, and it runs - at least, it starts easily, idles smoothly and revs freely. Still not quite ready to hit the road though.

    It has certainly not been a 'bolt-in' conversion, as many aspects of it have required modifications to make it fit or function.

    I've taken a few photos of the major conversion bits, so i'll collate them once it's all done. The engine bay does look a bit funny now, with a late model plastic intake manifold, but still the original front engine cover.

    One thing I will mention though - on the later engine, the RH driveshaft centre bearing carrier has been modified from the earlier one - and it's now a VERY simple task to remove or refit the driveshaft, instead of the contortion act required on the earlier models. Took them long enough to make the change though, I remember swearing and cursing at the 'L' bolts on 205s and 405s too.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  7. #7
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    Arrgh, more roadblocks.

    Putting the finishing touches on it tonight, I found another significant difference between early and late engines. There is a pipe that runs around the back of the block and into the block via a hole underneath the thermostat housing. On the newer engine, the pipe is a much larger diameter, so, having used the earlier pipe, I now have coolant pouring out from the side of the block.

    Out it all comes again!
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  8. #8
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    Car has been back on the road for nearly a week now.

    I've got some photos to upload but for some reason the forum isn't playing the game tonight.

    I opted to stick with the original D8 engine management system. This meant that I needed to adapt the D8 throttle body to the D9 intake manifold, as the ES9J4S uses a fly-by-wire setup. So I cut a pair of mild steel flanges and welded them together with some mandrel bend exhaust pipe. I also welded a bung into the bottom of it to fit the original idle speed control valve.

    There is a significant difference between the right hand engine mounts on the D8 and D9 406s. The mount arrangement needs to match the chassis, so I had to use the D8 mount. This means removing the timing belt and tensioners to swap over the bracket attached to the engine. However, the D8 mount interferes with the intake manifold of the D9. To overcome this, I trimmed a section of the casting on the intake manifold, and also a section from the intake manifold gasket.

    The mount that screws into the base of the valley to support the centre timing belt idler pulley also needs to be changed to work with the D8 mount.

    Though it wasn't a problem for the conversion, it was interesting to note that the water pump has changed substantially between the two engines - the later one is much smaller!

    The wiring loom I have created is a combination of the two looms. It is mostly D8, but I have made a new injector loom from scratch using the connectors from the D9 engine.

    The injectors are higher flow capacity on the D9 engine, but the impedance is the same, so the ECU has no problem driving them. I have fitted an aftermarket adjustable fuel pressure regulator, with the idea that if it did over-fuel with the larger injectors, I could reduce the pressure a touch to compensate. But the ECU seems to compensate for it quite well, and the mixture is remaining within limits at the full 3 bar of fuel pressure.

    The pipe that runs from the block just below the thermostat housing, around to the coolant header tank on the D8 (but up to the heater on the D9) has a larger diameter on the later engine where it goes into the engine. I have had to cut and shut the two pipes to make it work.

    The later engine has camshaft position sensors on the end of each intake cam, and the one on the front bank interferes with the cruise control actuator from the D8. They also mean that the cam cover is a different shape to cover the different shape cam box.

    I have used the D8 exhaust setup in it's entirety. I saw no reason why the D9 system wouldn't fit, but the original D8 ECU can't cope with the 4 oxygen sensors (the D8 only has one).

    The newer engine has just one coolant temperature sensor, whereas the original engine had three. Two of those sensors were in the thermostat housing, and the third was in the block. The new engine's sensor is in the thermostat housing, so I swapped the thermostat housing over. Of course, this meant that I was still short of one sensor position, so I drilled and tapped another hole in the thermostat housing to fit the last sensor. I had to re-route some wiring to reach it.

    I'll have a go at uploading some photos later.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  9. #9
    Member mandc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    66

    Default

    Wow...what a lot of work. Sounds like an amazing job you have done. Can't wait for the photos. I think if my D8 motor dies, I will make sure I fit a D8 back in. LOL

  10. #10
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    The two engines out, ready to swap ancilliaries:
    ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3243.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3244.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3251.jpg

    ES9J4 (XFZ):
    ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3245.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3248.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3249.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3253.jpg

    ES9J4S (XFX):
    ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3246.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3247.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3250.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3252.jpg

    Modification to intake manifold and gasket:
    ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3254.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3256.jpg

    Camshaft phase sensor and cam cover differences:
    ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3257.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3258.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3259.jpg
    ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3260.jpg

    Water pumps - D8 on left, D9 on right:
    ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3263.jpg
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  11. #11
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    And here is the final product....
    ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3287.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3288.jpgES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe-img_3289.jpg

    I think it could pass for standard, apart from the anodised fluorescent blue aftermarket fuel pressure regulator.

    I knocked together a frequency triggered switch yesterday, and wired it in today, so the variable valve timing is now active for all engine speeds below 4300rpm (about 70hz). It makes a significant difference to the sound of the intake at idle!

    I have also noticed that the engine has developed a slight rattle over the past couple of days of driving. It turns out that the VVT is designed to be operating 'most' of the time when driving, and having it enabled provides lubrication to the mechanism. So having driven the car without it running, the VVT actuators had run dry. As soon as I put power to the solenoids, the rattle vanished instantly, and has not returned.
    So the moral of the story - don't disconnect your VVT solenoids!
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! SilverGTi_6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    850

    Default ES9J4S into D8 406 Coupe

    Great job! Thanks for the pics.
    Lotus Evora
    Peugeot 308 GTi
    1966 Volvo 122s
    Clio Sport Cup 182

    Previous
    Lotus Sport 111, C4 VTS, RCZ, 205 GTi, Volvo C30 T5-R, Honda S2000, 206 GTi180, Lotus Elise 111R, 205 GTi 6, Manual 406 coupe, 306 GTi 6, 405 MI16 (twice!), 505 GR

  13. #13
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    Some more stuff I forgot to mention about the conversion:

    There are 8 holes drilled in each head for the purpose of securing the coil packs or coils in place. However each engine only has threads tapped in the holes that are required for each of the coil pack arrangements. So I had to use a long-reach M8x1mm thread tap to prepare the head for the D8 coil pack system.

    Also the oil vapour control and PCV system is completely different on the new engine. On the J4, there is a vent system on the block in the base of the vee, this has been abolished in the J4S. So all the hoses from the junction block under the manifold needed to be refabricated to reach the mixture of J4 and J4S locations that I have plumbed them to.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Just Nth of Parramatta
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Hi Scott,
    You've managed to do a very complex conversion. I have a D8 auto V6 sedan and my son has a D9 (2003) V6 manual coupe. I maintain both cars. Seeing the differences between both cars I would not have thought it possible to swap motors without swapping the ECU and wiring harness. Especially because of the extra oxygen sensors etc.

    If you are down in Sydney I would like to have a look under your bonnet. Drop by for a chat and a cup of tea/coffee.
    Rgds
    Steve V6's.
    Steve V6 ..
    404,504Ti, 406SV.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •