1.9 turbo diesel engine miss.
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 1.9 turbo diesel engine miss.

    Hi all

    I have a 1993 405 1.9 SRDT

    When i bought the car the engine had the head taken off and pistons taken out, i was told the engine overheated and the head was bowed and a piston ring was cracked.
    I had a non turbo 1.9 diesel engine from another car i got rid of and fitted that with the turbo bits added, i did this so i could save enough money to rebuild the turbo engine.
    Here is where the problems start.

    I was driving up a long hill at 100kph, this hill is a long slog to get up.

    I was in 4th gear with foot nearly flat to the floor for most of the way, i looked at the temp gauge and got a fright as it was sitting on 95 indicated, it has never got that hot before.
    The top of the hill is more or less flat sloping down and the last part is down hill.
    When i got to the top of the hill and started descending the other side the temp gauge didn't move off 95, i pulled into the nearest village, left the engine running and had a look under the bonnet but nothing looked out of the ordinary.
    I drove on and the temp gauge didn't move off of 95, i was thinking the gauge itself was stuck and tapped the front of the gauges, didn't do anything, had to climb another hill but this one was a back road so could go slower and the the gauge moved off 95 and climbed higher, luckily the hill had a nice long decent so with gearbox in neutral, engine running i descended the hill.

    The needle on the gauge fell back to 70 indicated, i got the car home and parked up, shut the engine down and started it again and it started, i checked for oil in water/ vice versa which there was none.
    I left the engine to cool down for an hour or so and took off the rad cap, there was coolant there at the right level, so its not using coolant.
    I run the engine again and noticed it had a miss at idle, it is a very slight miss but enough to be felt when i'm inside the car and i can see the engine rocking slightly.
    It still runs fine and idles fine apart from the miss, i will check the valve clearances, and i have checked for no air in the fuel.
    When i fitted the engine i made sure the the valve clearances were correct, i fitted the turbo injectors as well as the turbo injector pump, remembering the engine is a none turbo engine.

    With the rad cap on and engine warm i have noticed coolant coming out of the overflow hole in the radiator neck when engine up to temp and is running.
    The engines idle is no longer smooth as it once was, when engine is running i can feel it shaking the car, The engine has a miss, it is not a constant miss sometimes it is smooth and other times its rough, this miss is not present when the engine is started from cold, the heater still chucks out loads of heat (i replaced the 0 rings in the heater pipes) i have fitted a pod type air filter and that now sits behind the drivers side headlight, i have fitted a genuine fuel filter not long ago (one month max), the engine still operates as it should with plenty of power hot or cold, it starts not too good in the mornings IE one glow cycle try to start engine, engine starts with a big cloud of greyish white smoke then stalls, two glow plug cycles engine starts with the same but continues running roughly for say 5 seconds then runs fine.
    When hot engine idles at approx 500rpm and needle is steady, when cold 900/1000.

    When climbing hills or idling for some time, temp gauge rises to 90 and a bit over.
    Oil hasn't any white deposits and not throwing out white smoke from exhaust apart from when first started cold.
    No hiss (IE pressure in system) from rad cap when undone from cold, no bubbles in the coolant when engine running, ran engine with tank cap off and saw coolant rising up and overflowed the tank neck when at running temp.
    I have used the non turbo thermostat (not new) so i may change that, i have loosened the injector feed pipes and engine note changes to the same note on all of them.
    I have a clear fuel filter after the main fuel filter and note no bubbles of air.
    Am really hoping it is not the head gasket, i do have the none turbo diesel fuel pump and injectors, the 1.8 diesel turbo pump and injectors so am thinking of my options.

    I have turned the lda pin half way around so the pin sits on a steeper part of the pin on the 1.9 turbo pump and am wondering if turning up the fuel screw to richen up the entire mixture would help eliminate the above issues?.

    Any help appreciated.

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    Brett.

  2. #2
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    Not a diesel expert but I'm almost certain the compression ratio of a non turbo engine is higher than that of the turbo engine.
    This would mean excessive combustion pressure when on boost and possibly a blown head gasket.
    Graham


    Quote Originally Posted by nivaman View Post
    Hi all

    I have a 1993 405 1.9 SRDT

    When i bought the car the engine had the head taken off and pistons taken out, i was told the engine overheated and the head was bowed and a piston ring was cracked.
    I had a non turbo 1.9 diesel engine from another car i got rid of and fitted that with the turbo bits added, i did this so i could save enough money to rebuild the turbo engine.
    Here is where the problems start.

    I was driving up a long hill at 100kph, this hill is a long slog to get up.

    I was in 4th gear with foot nearly flat to the floor for most of the way, i looked at the temp gauge and got a fright as it was sitting on 95 indicated, it has never got that hot before.
    The top of the hill is more or less flat sloping down and the last part is down hill.
    When i got to the top of the hill and started descending the other side the temp gauge didn't move off 95, i pulled into the nearest village, left the engine running and had a look under the bonnet but nothing looked out of the ordinary.
    I drove on and the temp gauge didn't move off of 95, i was thinking the gauge itself was stuck and tapped the front of the gauges, didn't do anything, had to climb another hill but this one was a back road so could go slower and the the gauge moved off 95 and climbed higher, luckily the hill had a nice long decent so with gearbox in neutral, engine running i descended the hill.

    The needle on the gauge fell back to 70 indicated, i got the car home and parked up, shut the engine down and started it again and it started, i checked for oil in water/ vice versa which there was none.
    I left the engine to cool down for an hour or so and took off the rad cap, there was coolant there at the right level, so its not using coolant.
    I run the engine again and noticed it had a miss at idle, it is a very slight miss but enough to be felt when i'm inside the car and i can see the engine rocking slightly.
    It still runs fine and idles fine apart from the miss, i will check the valve clearances, and i have checked for no air in the fuel.
    When i fitted the engine i made sure the the valve clearances were correct, i fitted the turbo injectors as well as the turbo injector pump, remembering the engine is a none turbo engine.

    With the rad cap on and engine warm i have noticed coolant coming out of the overflow hole in the radiator neck when engine up to temp and is running.
    The engines idle is no longer smooth as it once was, when engine is running i can feel it shaking the car, The engine has a miss, it is not a constant miss sometimes it is smooth and other times its rough, this miss is not present when the engine is started from cold, the heater still chucks out loads of heat (i replaced the 0 rings in the heater pipes) i have fitted a pod type air filter and that now sits behind the drivers side headlight, i have fitted a genuine fuel filter not long ago (one month max), the engine still operates as it should with plenty of power hot or cold, it starts not too good in the mornings IE one glow cycle try to start engine, engine starts with a big cloud of greyish white smoke then stalls, two glow plug cycles engine starts with the same but continues running roughly for say 5 seconds then runs fine.
    When hot engine idles at approx 500rpm and needle is steady, when cold 900/1000.

    When climbing hills or idling for some time, temp gauge rises to 90 and a bit over.
    Oil hasn't any white deposits and not throwing out white smoke from exhaust apart from when first started cold.
    No hiss (IE pressure in system) from rad cap when undone from cold, no bubbles in the coolant when engine running, ran engine with tank cap off and saw coolant rising up and overflowed the tank neck when at running temp.
    I have used the non turbo thermostat (not new) so i may change that, i have loosened the injector feed pipes and engine note changes to the same note on all of them.
    I have a clear fuel filter after the main fuel filter and note no bubbles of air.
    Am really hoping it is not the head gasket, i do have the none turbo diesel fuel pump and injectors, the 1.8 diesel turbo pump and injectors so am thinking of my options.

    I have turned the lda pin half way around so the pin sits on a steeper part of the pin on the 1.9 turbo pump and am wondering if turning up the fuel screw to richen up the entire mixture would help eliminate the above issues?.

    Any help appreciated.

    Brett.

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Not a diesel expert but I'm almost certain the compression ratio of a non turbo engine is higher than that of the turbo engine.
    This would mean excessive combustion pressure when on boost and possibly a blown head gasket.
    Graham
    Cheers
    I had suspected the head gasket but normally the heater blows cold when the gasket blows?.
    As i understand it the compression ratio of a non turbo to turbo diesel is 23-1 and 21-1 respectively.

    I have cleaned the air filter which has made some difference to the idle, I do suspect the water pump for the temp climbing at idle but what gets me is why the coolant overflows the rad tank neck at hot idle (although slowly).

  4. #4
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    Cooling system is being pressurized by the blown gasket.
    Heater will blow cold after the water level has dropped not just because of the blown gasket.

    Graham


    Quote Originally Posted by nivaman View Post
    Cheers
    I had suspected the head gasket but normally the heater blows cold when the gasket blows?.
    As i understand it the compression ratio of a non turbo to turbo diesel is 23-1 and 21-1 respectively.

    I have cleaned the air filter which has made some difference to the idle, I do suspect the water pump for the temp climbing at idle but what gets me is why the coolant overflows the rad tank neck at hot idle (although slowly).

  5. #5
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    Default did you bleed it

    sounds to me that it has a belly full of air ,the temp guage is reading steam ,is the thermistate working properly,just what this has to do with a rough idle im not sure ,could be a couple of problems unrelated .PUGS SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING MY WIFE IS OUT

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    sounds to me that it has a belly full of air ,the temp guage is reading steam ,is the thermistate working properly,just what this has to do with a rough idle im not sure ,could be a couple of problems unrelated .PUGS SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING MY WIFE IS OUT

    i have tried researching the issue but have not got very far due to my particular problem not coming up in search, also like to add that i am very competent with the spanners but this issue has me somewhat flummoxed.

    I had the radiator cleaned when it was in another car and the rad guy said it was 90% blocked, when i fitted into this car i back flushed it with the garden hose.
    The system is filled with antifreeze that has water wetter included, the fans do kick in at about 95 on the gauge but both of them not one at a time.
    I did notice the temp was stable at 75-80 (gauge) when i had the heater on and going up hill, whereas the same hill with heater off the temp would climb to over 80, i am thinking possible thermostat trouble??.

    The lda pin adjustment i think made the biggest difference, it feels like the engine has more power and is so much more smoother.
    I am trying to figure out if the head gasket has actually failed which is why i have asked you all, it is really my first diesel after mucking about with petrol cars.
    I have tried pumping the fuel bulb when cold and the starting is better, i have replaced the fuel filter O ring on the bottom of the housing and also fitted an O ring to the filter top as i heard air being sucked in from there.
    When i pump the fuel bulb i can hear fuel being pumped into the filter housing, i have fitted a see through filter between the main filter and inj pump and see no bubbles in it when engine is running.

    The engine is no loosing any coolant unless the engine is idling and the temp reaches approx 85-89 on the gauge then i can see coolant coming out of the hole just below the rad cap.

  7. #7
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Personally, I think 70 is around 15-20 deg too low and I suspect your thermostat may have been dodgy for some time.

    There is no heater tap - the coolant circuit doesn't change if the heater is on or off. There may be a marginal effect as the cabin air blows across the heater matrix, but I don't think it is much.

    Both fans should always come on together, not one at a time, so this is normal behaviour.
    Last edited by SLC206; 30th November 2012 at 12:35 PM.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Personally, I think 70 is around 15-20 deg too low and I suspect your thermostat may have been dodgy for some time.

    There is no heater tap - the coolant circuit doesn't change if the heater is on or off. There may be a marginal effect as the cabin air blows across the heater matrix, but I don't think it is much.

    Both fans should always come on together, not one at a time, so this is normal behavior.
    I think you are right about the temp, i am going to drill some 3mm holes in the thermostat and i do think the head gasket has blown, got home today and lifted the bonnet to find water fair rushing out of the hole in the header tank.
    I am going to try the stuff that is poured into the radiator and supposedly meant to fix the head gasket, i am only doing this so i can get the original engine built up and i still have a car to drive otherwise i am car less.
    Interesting to note about the temp gauge in that the temp has been around 80-90 deg when i have been driving the car.

  9. #9
    Member Luke G's Avatar
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    I don't think you have blown the head gasket. My 405 has got up to 95 degrees plus at certain times such as on a really hot day going up a long and windy hill. In regard to the coolant coming out the hole in the radiator, try replacing the cap, if it is old it won't hold the pressure and will release coolant, I've had to replace a few caps on both petrol and diesel 405s with the same symptoms. The fact that it is not using too much coolant other than that coming out near the cap is a good sign. I would be interested to know the thermostat temp rating, from memory I replaced mine with one that begins to open at 83 degrees which made a difference, but the temperature staying up around the 90 degree mark when going up a hill or at idle is normal. In regard to the rough starting, try parking it facing downhill if you have a sloping driveway, the other thing that can cause starting problems is if your battery is getting old, the glow plugs won't work effectively. I would find a good diesel mechanic to look at your idle problems and to get some ideas of the possible problem but the fact that it is only happening at idle I would imagine is a good sign. The only other thing to check getting back to your coolant issues, is that it doesn't have air in the system, it takes ages to bleed the system properly when replacing the coolant and you have to loosen a screw near the thermostat housing until coolant comes out and then running the car at idle with the radiator cap off topping up the fluid level as required until it is up to running temperature. I still find after going through this process that it still takes a good week of checking and topping up for the fluid level to be right.
    Last edited by Luke G; 1st January 2013 at 09:33 AM.

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    I flushed the cooling system and tested both thermostats i have, the original one started opening at 90 deg stamped on it was 83deg, the replacement started opening (just a crack) at 79deg and was fully open at 90 (it had stamped on it 83deg), the dash gauge proved to be surprisingly accurate.
    I used the replacement thermostat, flushed the system out and used new coolant and distilled water, when i bled the system i parked the car facing uphill and left the engine running until the fans kicked in which took about an hour and half which is far longer than it took for the fans to come on with the other thermostat in place.
    My car is a later model 405 which has the filter housing on top of the thermostat housing, i do have a blanking plug beside the filter housing that i took out to bleed the air when i was filling the cooling system, i let the car sit for quite a few hours to cool down and undone the rad cap slightly and coolant gushed out, i left it till the morning and took the cap off and sucked out coolant to the right level.
    I took the rad cap off this morning and there was a hiss as pressure was released.
    The rad cap is relatively new and supposedly for a non return cooling system even though it said on the cap it was for a return system, that's what the parts jockey gave me and said it was for a non return system.
    I am pretty certain the glow plugs are at fault for the hard starting so until i get the time to change them i am glowing them at least twice, i do live on a hill and do park it facing down hill.
    The battery is new and a load test on it proved OK.
    I am curious to know if putting the boosty bits on a non turbo engine and not adjusting the fueling to match would somehow affect the valves and seats?, IE a valve burnt out enough to cause a rough idle, although the idle is a lot better than it used to be as it doesn't shake the car at idle anymore.

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