307 HDI hard to start cold
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    Default 307 HDI hard to start cold

    Just wondering if anyone has any idea why a freinds 307 HDI 2003 model is hard to start cold. systoms are cranks over fine for 20 msecond then starts perfectly with a little smoke, doesnt fire or cough when cranking then just starts perfectly.
    could this be a fuel lift pump problem as glow plugs are not used unless its very cold

    any help apreciated

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! young 4 old pug's Avatar
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    Default 307 HDI hard to start cold

    What colour is the smoke?
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    blue, so no diesel getting in still it starts

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balki View Post
    Just wondering if anyone has any idea why a freinds 307 HDI 2003 model is hard to start cold. systoms are cranks over fine for 20 msecond then starts perfectly with a little smoke, doesnt fire or cough when cranking then just starts perfectly.
    Sorry, I'm confused by the spelling.
    Do you mean you have to crank it for 20 seconds before it will start.

    A little smoke when it starts is normal for non DPF engines.
    You should be able to hear the pump running for 10 seconds when you tern the ignition on without cranking the engine.
    You could also try taking the input fuel line off the fuel filter and checking the flow. (also has the fuel filter been changed recently)

    Other things that can cause hard starting is fuel leaks and a blocked air filter.
    Check the air filter and try starting with it removed.
    One quick way to test for a low pressure fuel leak is to tern the ignition on and wait 5 or so second to allow the fuel pressure to build and then start it. If it starts normally than it is probably a fuel leak.
    Also it the engine starts and stalls immediately, this is a tall tail of a fuel leak.

    I hope this information helps.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! XM Mechanic's Avatar
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    It would be cheaper to replace 4 glowplugs as troubleshooting than start down the fuel pump track.Keep it simple.

    I think you will find the glowplugs work all the time, during a start, but for a much shorter period when it is warmer.

    My 306 started perfectly in Sydney. I took it to the snow with a 0 degree night I couldn't start it with two minutes of constant cranking.

    One glow plug was dead. I am guessing the one with the short dragged the others down.
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  6. #6
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    could be a slight air leak in the pipe from the tank or the fuel filter ,allowing the fuel to drain back overnight ,try turning the ignition on till you hear the in tank pump stop, turn it off ,then on again wait till pump stops[thereby priming the pressure pump] then try to start if it fires right up your loosing prime from the tank pump,my experience is with 306 but much the same ,even replaced the pressure pump[fault code said no rail pressure] only to find down the track that the lift pump in the tank wasnt shifting enough fuel to keep up with the mechanical pump on the engine ,expensive lesson ,hope that helps PUGS

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! jurgen_s's Avatar
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    has this engine a manual pump that you normally use when the car has run out of diesel. Open it, pump and if it takes a while before diesel gets out it means that you have a problem before the pump.
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  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! andrepug's Avatar
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    I thought HDI engines did not have glow plugs.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! stew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepug View Post
    I thought HDI engines did not have glow plugs.
    They can have, glow plugs for combustion and glowplugs into the coolant around the combustion chamber. As in RHR engines 307/308 407.
    Relays have become transistors in a printed circuit board under the fuse box for the engine! The starter will turn happily while the ecu's shut down.
    The most common reason is a poor battery or starter motor excess current draw. Blue smoke is usually engine oil smoke but, of course with the many chemicals involved in fuel and the evidently poor combustion, who knows what colour smoke means what?
    So, Starter Current or Battery?
    In Tassie, battery first?

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! young 4 old pug's Avatar
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    Default 307 HDI hard to start cold

    Blue smoke = oil
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  11. #11
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    White smoke can be un burnt fuel in a diesel ,hdi has glow plugs and dousnt have hand primer, pugs

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! young 4 old pug's Avatar
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    Default 307 HDI hard to start cold

    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    White smoke can be un burnt fuel in a diesel ,hdi has glow plugs and dousnt have hand primer, pugs
    All HDi's have glow plugs and most HAVE hand primers
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  13. #13
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    So you learn something everyday,our 405 srdt has a primer and our 306 hdi dousnt ,so was thinking primers were old school ,pugs

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Balki's Avatar
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    had a new battery 6 months ago

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    early Hdi's (eg pre DPF 2 liter Hdi's) do not have hand primers as the Bosch systems auto prime.
    Also on early Hdi's the glow plugs do not activate at all if the temperature is above 16c and for only 0.5 seconds before start up between 0 and 16c.
    On later Hdi's the glow plugs are used a lot more in all conditions. (this is for anti pollution reasons)

    I hope this clears up some things about the use glow plugs on these engines.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! young 4 old pug's Avatar
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    Default 307 HDI hard to start cold

    Quote Originally Posted by gromzx View Post
    early Hdi's (eg pre DPF 2 liter Hdi's) do not have hand primers as the Bosch systems auto prime.
    Also on early Hdi's the glow plugs do not activate at all if the temperature is above 16c and for only 0.5 seconds before start up between 0 and 16c.
    On later Hdi's the glow plugs are used a lot more in all conditions. (this is for anti pollution reasons)

    I hope this clears up some things about the use glow plugs on these engines.
    Again not quite.

    Some do, some don't. The 306 HDi RHZ doesn't as it has a lifter pump in the fuel tank. The early T5 307 HDi RHY (is the non intercooled version of the 306/406HDi RHZ) does NOT have a lifter pump so instead HAS a primer bulb. It is a Siemens SID801 system but doesn't have a DPF.
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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! gromzx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by young 4 old pug View Post
    Some do, some don't. The 306 HDi RHZ doesn't as it has a lifter pump in the fuel tank. The early T5 307 HDi RHY (is the non intercooled version of the 306/406HDi RHZ) does NOT have a lifter pump so instead HAS a primer bulb. It is a Siemens SID801 system but doesn't have a DPF.
    That's why I mentioned the Bosch system specifically.
    Some systems also have both a lift pump and a primer bulb (although not needed) like the 407 138 HDi (RHR or RHL I'm not sure) with the Siemens system.

    Hmmm. To many variations. I think where getting sidetracked.
    You would need to look up vin in service box to confirm.

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