Does Peugeot use 'post injection' in their HDi engines ?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Does Peugeot use 'post injection' in their HDi engines ?

    Hi does anyone know if Peugeot use 'post injection' in their HDi engines ?

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    This is done in many modern diesel engines to introduce fuel late in the combustion cycle, as part of an advanced control strategy to reduce emissions

    A technical precise is as follows 'Many original engine manufacturers (OEMs) use a regeneration scheme in which fuel is introduced late in combustion to create an exothermic reaction downstream in the filter, which burns off the soot.'

    [basically regeneration for the DPF]

    Does Peugeot do this ?

  2. #2
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    PSA do have a regeneration cycle; you can also do a forced regen with the diagnostics gear.

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    My understanding with PSA engines is that it is the Eolys fuel additive that facilitates a burn of particulates in the DPF at a lower temperature than would otherwise be the case. For example the Holden Cruze injects more fuel to burn off the DPF. Renault inject fuel into the exhaust rather than thru the engine. No doubt others on this form will correct me if I have not explained this well?
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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Both an additive and post injection is used on the current systems.

    http://www.peugeot.com.au/fap-particle-filter-584/
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
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    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

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  5. #5
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    Thank you for the replies

    I ask this as I use some [>20%] biodiesel in my 308 HDi and this article http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...ction-problem/ suggests [at least with VW] that the use of biodiesel above 10% may cause issues because of fuel dilution and result in possible engine wear

    I find this if true is is in conflict with what Peugeot PSA Europe say who DO allow and support the use of up to 30% biodiesel which is documented here http://www.peugeot.ps/etemplate.php?id=83

    Thoughts & where does the additive come from ?

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    Default Does Peugeot use 'post injection' in their HDi engines ?

    Additive is mounted in a tank just in front of the LHR wheel. Yes PSA use additive and post injection during regen cycle. The whole system is driven by the additive ECU or in some vehicles the engine ECU, taking in primarily how the car is driven along with engine load data, exterior temp etc with the exhaust pressure sensors used as a "check" or secondary parameter. DPF load is measured as a % and additive injection is measured in grams....not ml...

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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xlink_nz View Post
    I find this if true is is in conflict with what Peugeot PSA Europe say who DO allow and support the use of up to 30% biodiesel which is documented here http://www.peugeot.ps/etemplate.php?id=83
    Peugeot Australia's "thoughts" on biodiesel is displayed on its website:

    The use of Biodiesel has been examined by Automobiles Peugeot in consultation with expert representatives from Biodiesel producers, refiners and injection equipment manufactures. The Peugeot HDi range of vehicles can successfully operate on Biodiesel which meets or is equivalent to the EN14214 Standard to a maximum blend of B5. Additionally the end-product fuel must comply with the EN590 standard, that allows a maximum of 5% fatty acid methyl ester content.

    Biodiesel fuels which do not meet this standard should not be used as it may affect the longevity and performance of the vehicle and will void elements of the manufacturer’s warranty.
    I'd imagine your vehicle handbook should also provide some guidance on biodiesel.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by xlink_nz View Post
    Thank you for the replies

    I ask this as I use some [>20%] biodiesel in my 308 HDi and this article http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...ction-problem/ suggests [at least with VW] that the use of biodiesel above 10% may cause issues because of fuel dilution and result in possible engine wear

    I find this if true is is in conflict with what Peugeot PSA Europe say who DO allow and support the use of up to 30% biodiesel which is documented here http://www.peugeot.ps/etemplate.php?id=83

    Thoughts & where does the additive come from ?
    In Europe, the use of B30 biodiesel is one of the criteria for 'arduous conditions', where the oil change interval is reduced from 30 000 km (normal conditions) to 20 000 km (arduous conditions). Fuel filter replacement interval is also reduced to 20 000 km.

    In overseas markets, that translates to a oil change interval from 20 000 km (normal) down to 10 000 km (arduous). Fuel filter replacement interval stays at 20 000 km though.

    The use of PSA approved engine oils is also important, which need to pass ACEA requirements as well as additional PSA specific tests - including oxidation stability tests with biodiesel, and ethanol (E10) durability and compatibility tests, amongst others.

    PSA only approve B30 biodiesel for 'captive or corporate fleets', where I suspect the quality of biodiesel is known and can be controlled and monitored. This is because the chemical makeup and properties of biodiesel varies greatly depending on what feedstock it's derived from.

    If you can source a high quality biodiesel blend (B20 is a common blend, rather than B30), and follow the arduous conditions service intervals (more frequent oil and fuel filter changes), then I don't foresee any great problems.

    If in doubt (in regards to fuel quality), then don't.

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    Not to hijack this thread, which I have learned a lot from reading, but just out of interest, what happens when the Eolys tank is empty? Is the tank topped up during regular servicing as I cannot find any reference to it in my service manual. I am driving a 2006 307 HDi with particle filter.

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    Fellow Frogger! young 4 old pug's Avatar
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    Default Does Peugeot use 'post injection' in their HDi engines ?

    Quote Originally Posted by borosa View Post
    Not to hijack this thread, which I have learned a lot from reading, but just out of interest, what happens when the Eolys tank is empty? Is the tank topped up during regular servicing as I cannot find any reference to it in my service manual. I am driving a 2006 307 HDi with particle filter.
    Like I said above, the additive capacity in the tank is measured in mls (so for the tank set up you use a 3000ml refil kit) but the ECU calculates tank level/capacity in grams. So IF the tank has not been damaged/punctured/lost injection control, when the weight injected into fuel tank reaches a certain level that the ECU then converts back to the tank getting low, it will log a fault in the ECU and bring up that loverly comforting "anti pollution fault" message on the MFD. Then you go to a specialist to have it refilled/pouch replaced and ECU counter re set. However, if the tank has been punctured/damaged and all the additive has run away, the ECU won't know (as there is NO physical level sensor, only a calculation of capacity based on weight injected) that the level is low so will continue injection until its air. After a few 1000km of driving with no additive (depending on how car is driven) the car will not be able to regenerate as temp required will be too high (additive lowers required temp) so will display "Risk of particle filter clogging" on the MFD. keep driving and our favourite anti pollution message will be displayed. Keep driving and filter will become so blocked that power will reduce a lot. By this stage the ECU looks more closely at data from EPD sensor (exhaust pressure differential sensor) and figure out that something really bad is wrong with the particle filter, putting car into seriously downgraded mode. When this happens, boost is cut out, rpm limited to a whopping 1500rpm and top speed of 50-60km/hr. keep driving (and I'll whack you over the head with your DPF) and eventually the exhaust will become so blocked that engine won't start.

    Personally, I've seen a farmers 407 RHR do all the above up until not starting. Not wanting to buy a new DPF, he asked me to remove particle filter so he could clean it himself (after me repeatedly telling him it won't work). He took it back to the farm (funnily 2km from my dads property) and cleaned it with degreaser and a high pressure washer. After that he attached it BACKWARDS onto his tractor exhaust (as it was more powerful than his 407) and "flushed" it out. He returned it saying it was fixed. I said not possible but fitted it anyway. He told me to take it for a hard drive to remove and moisture left and I refused stating that it could damage the engine. He said ok he'll do it, against both my recommendation and service managers recommendation, both stating he could damage the engine (but customer always right). 500m down the road and car stopped. It blew the turbo throwing oil everywhere, shattered the plastic boost pipe under sump along with bursting both boost pipes leading into the air dozer, which was also damaged. The excessive oil from turbo also melted the pre-cat and destroyed air temp and pressure sensors. All due to a blocked DPF as a result of him hitting a wallaby north of sydney a week before shattering additive tank then driving back to southern NSW VIA MELBOURNE against our strong recommendations, as he didn't want to have it towed.

    Sorry bit off thread topic, but a good lesson of what NOT to do.
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  11. #11
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    I have but one word... WOW! If ever a post was sticky worthy, then the above is a strong contender! Thanks for that Y4O Pug.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Peugeot Australia's "thoughts" on biodiesel is displayed on its website:
    I'd imagine your vehicle handbook should also provide some guidance on biodiesel.
    Thank you, yes I am familiar with Peugeot Australia’s position [& Peugeot NZ who have a similar view] on the use of Biodiesel, they have their reasons but I make a consumer choice based on what PSA Europe allow and adhere to their [PSA Europe] requirements to do so

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_vert View Post
    In Europe, the use of B30 biodiesel is one of the criteria for 'arduous conditions', where the oil change interval is reduced from 30 000 km (normal conditions) to 20 000 km (arduous conditions). Fuel filter replacement interval is also reduced to 20 000 km.
    In overseas markets, that translates to a oil change interval from 20 000 km (normal) down to 10 000 km (arduous). Fuel filter replacement interval stays at 20 000 km though.
    The use of PSA approved engine oils is also important, which need to pass ACEA requirements as well as additional PSA specific tests - including oxidation stability tests with biodiesel, and ethanol (E10) durability and compatibility tests, amongst others.
    PSA only approve B30 biodiesel for 'captive or corporate fleets', where I suspect the quality of biodiesel is known and can be controlled and monitored. This is because the chemical makeup and properties of biodiesel varies greatly depending on what feedstock it's derived from.
    If you can source a high quality biodiesel blend (B20 is a common blend, rather than B30), and follow the arduous conditions service intervals (more frequent oil and fuel filter changes), then I don't foresee any great problems.
    If in doubt (in regards to fuel quality), then don't.
    Diesel Vert
    I was aware of the changing the fuel filter twice as often i.e. every 20K but not the oil filter in "overseas markets" every 10K - where did you read that ?

    FYI I only use commercial grade B100 biodiesel of the highest quality which I mix in tank to B20 e.g. 48L mineral diesel + 12L B100 to make B20 in tank

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