The Restoration / Bastardisation of François...
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  1. #1
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Default The Restoration / Bastardisation of François...

    The what of who now?
    François is a 1956 Peugeot 403 that I originally purchased in 2000. At that time, I did a very superficial clean up on him, and drove him around for a couple of years.

    Being a very early model, he has clap-hand windscreen wipers, an ashtray at either end of the dashboard, lion on the bonnet, Peugeot badges down the side, the full word 'Peugeot' on the hubcaps and glass indicator and tail light lenses.

    Oil pressure problems and worsening bearing noises combined with failing brakes meant it was time to retire
    François. He spent the next few years in a variety of storage locations, including backyards of houses and workshops, paddocks, and finally under a tree on a farm for a few years.

    But upon seeing it there, my fiancé Kathryn commented that a 403 would make a nice wedding car. Well, did I have a deal for her! And so it came to pass that she agreed that we should restore François
    to use as our wedding car.

    The plan.
    The condition of the car when we rescued it from the paddock earlier this year, particularly the original mechanicals, was poor at best. Oil pressure issues, knocks from the front end, smoke, missing a cylinder, noisy gearbox, and a brake pedal that fell to the floor. The clutch slipped badly. The exhaust had fallen off. I still took great pride in driving it off the trailer and into the garage under it's own power though.

    Overhauling the original mechanical components would be time consuming and prohibitively expensive for me. In an attempt to save as much of the budget for bodywork and paintwork, we have decided to use more modern components where practical.

    Externally, apart from 504/505 hubs and wheels, it will look as close to original as possible.

    Underneath though, there are some changes.
    • 505 ZDJ engine, fitted with a Fuego carburettor and manifold, custom sump, Toyota 7M-GTE oil pump driven from the distributor drive in place of the original distributor.
    • ZF3HP22 automatic transmission.
    • 504 LD rear diff, 3.4ish :1 ratio.
    • 505 disc brake front end
    • 505 collapsible steering column
    • 505 power steering
    • air conditioning

    The bits that I haven't finalised yet:
    • Brakes. I have a couple of 404 brake boosters, but I am considering mounting a 504 master cylinder and brake booster on a frame to clear the diagonal members in the engine bay.
    • Ignition. Considering Fuego and Renault 20 distributor options to fit on the back of the head, but clearance seems to be an issue.


    Parts needed
    We are still chasing some parts for François.
    • Chrome strip that runs at the top of the sill panel, below the doors.
    • Rust-free bonnet
    • Right-hand tail light chrome surround to suit glass lens.


    Photos
    Today I did a first mockup of the engine and gearbox sitting in the engine bay to check clearances around the motor. Here are some photos.

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    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I hope the wedding isn't in the near future I see a few hundred hours of work there just stripping all the surface rust off and sealing everything up!

    Didn't I find two of these in a backyard about 5years ago, that no-one would take away for free (talk about a missed oportunity, you could have picked the one with the best drivetrain and swapped it over). The only rust I could find in them was the front of the sills. The floors and boots looked intact.

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    Double ashtrays is early, with semaphore indicators? We always called them 55's even though they were 56 models mostly. The 403 is still at the stage where wrecks are given away.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i'd be interested in seeing how the exhaust fits in
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    i'd be interested in seeing how the exhaust fits in
    Would be much easier to build a 403 engine.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    I hope the wedding isn't in the near future I see a few hundred hours of work there just stripping all the surface rust off and sealing everything up!

    Didn't I find two of these in a backyard about 5years ago, that no-one would take away for free (talk about a missed oportunity, you could have picked the one with the best drivetrain and swapped it over). The only rust I could find in them was the front of the sills. The floors and boots looked intact.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Shane,

    The wedding is in October 2013. My (hopefully realistic) goal is to have the car ready for the 2013 Grand Display of French Cars (around June I expect).

    I aim to have the mechanical work sorted by Christmas this year, an easily achievable goal I think. Then I will tackle the bodywork.

    Rustwise, the sill panels each have a few holes near the front, and the front floor sections are gone. There are a couple of thin spots in the chassis rail under the firewall and in front of the front doors, at the bottom. From there up though is very solid, except for some cracking at the top of the B pillars. I think I will fabricate a flat floor to replace the existing floor sections.

    I have seen a few 403s come up cheap in the past few years, but time and space have always been a big problem. Now that the project has been given priority status, it's proving a lot more difficult to find bits.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  7. #7
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall View Post
    Double ashtrays is early, with semaphore indicators? We always called them 55's even though they were 56 models mostly. The 403 is still at the stage where wrecks are given away.
    Yes, semaphore indicators, and they still work! The plastic lens over the globes are missing though. It also has a very minimalistic set of chrome trim - it doesn't have the second line of chrome trim below the door handles. It does have the fancier grille though.

    The car was actually sold to me as a 1955 model, and the NSW rego paperwork that it had said it was a 1955 model. When I went to register it in SA they couldn't record it as a 55 model, as according to them that car wasn't available until 1956. So it was registered in SA as a 56 model. Is there any way to confirm from numbers what year the body and/or engine were produced?

    I know that 404/504/505 XN engines have a date cast into the block and head. But the only number that looks like a date on the 403 engine is '59'. I'm wondering if this car has been re-engined at some point?
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  8. #8
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo View Post
    i'd be interested in seeing how the exhaust fits in
    Squeezy. The manifold will have to be fitted to the head by lifting the engine off it's mounts, disconnecting the gearbox mount from the body and twisting the whole assembly.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  9. #9
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Would be much easier to build a 403 engine.
    I certainly considered that Graham. But it would have involved not just overhauling the engine, but also the gearbox, clutch, linkages, brakes and rear diff. The ZDJ also makes it easier to mount an airconditioner compressor. Plus I wanted to convert it to auto, so there would have been substantial fabrication involved had I gone that way anyway.

    And I do like to have something a little different to the norm...
    "We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    Keep us in informed, looks an interesting transformation.
    Should be fun squeezing the auto in that tunnel!
    re short dissy for rear of the head, Richard Marken in Bris used a short dissy ( spark switch firing every stroke with 2 coils)in a 403 to avoid the webbers I don't have any contact details for him sorry.

  11. #11
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine View Post
    Keep us in informed, looks an interesting transformation.
    Should be fun squeezing the auto in that tunnel!
    re short dissy for rear of the head, Richard Marken in Bris used a short dissy ( spark switch firing every stroke with 2 coils)in a 403 to avoid the webbers I don't have any contact details for him sorry.
    Interestingly, the auto fits the tunnel perfectly, with plenty of clearance. It is wide at the bottom, but the round upper section of the gearbox is actually narrower and lower than the original C2 gearbox.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    could you use a late fuego distributor on a 505 engine? Down in that hole under the inlet manifold?
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    Re . the date..... isn't the year model eg. 56 stamped onto the front of the steering wheel? Very distant dim 403 memory. Neil

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    Yes, semaphore indicators, and they still work! The plastic lens over the globes are missing though. It also has a very minimalistic set of chrome trim - it doesn't have the second line of chrome trim below the door handles. It does have the fancier grille though.

    The car was actually sold to me as a 1955 model, and the NSW rego paperwork that it had said it was a 1955 model. When I went to register it in SA they couldn't record it as a 55 model, as according to them that car wasn't available until 1956. So it was registered in SA as a 56 model. Is there any way to confirm from numbers what year the body and/or engine were produced?

    I know that 404/504/505 XN engines have a date cast into the block and head. But the only number that looks like a date on the 403 engine is '59'. I'm wondering if this car has been re-engined at some point?
    engine number will match chassis number if original

    Quote Originally Posted by neil s View Post
    Re . the date..... isn't the year model eg. 56 stamped onto the front of the steering wheel? Very distant dim 403 memory. Neil
    that's correct so long as it's the original wheel
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    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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    Quote Originally Posted by cav91 View Post
    could you use a late fuego distributor on a 505 engine? Down in that hole under the inlet manifold?
    Quoting post #1

    505 ZDJ engine, fitted with a Fuego carburettor and manifold, custom sump, Toyota 7M-GTE oil pump driven from the distributor drive in place of the original distributor.
    The less one interacts with rude, ignorant, critical and argumentative members. The more peaceful life becomes.

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neil s View Post
    Re . the date..... isn't the year model eg. 56 stamped onto the front of the steering wheel? Very distant dim 403 memory. Neil
    Just went and had a good look over the steering wheel and can't see any numbers on it. Anywhere specific I should be looking?

    I'll check the numbers on the engine and chassis tomorrow and see if they match. Were there any differences with later engines?
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    Look under the steering wheel rim. It probably has a French manufacturing date of 1955 and an Australian sale of 56. Although a few were registered here in 55. You can tell year of manufacture from the serial number. I have a list somewhere.

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    I can do you a bonnet and chrome strip. I'm in Canberra. The tail light surrounds for glass lenses are hard to get, but it's very easy to convert one of the surrounds made for the plastic lens. Just cut off the tab that takes the screw and bend the cut edge over carefully. You may need to drill a hole on the underside so you can screw it into the aluminium body but it's invisible. If you are still after these parts or want any other early 403 trim or other bits, write on [email protected]. Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    Just went and had a good look over the steering wheel and can't see any numbers on it. Anywhere specific I should be looking?

    I'll check the numbers on the engine and chassis tomorrow and see if they match. Were there any differences with later engines?
    Here's mine on the reverse of one of the steering wheel spokes - on a 203 obviously - but same would apply to a 403 of much the same age? The year is also supposed to be on the diff. but I never found mine. Then again, I didn't look too hard.



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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Thanks to all who made the steering wheel suggestion. I had a good look at it and couldnt' find any numbers, so I checked my spare steering wheel. I found the number on the spare (1955), but the same place on the wheel fitted to the car has worn completely smooth with use. The gentleman I bought the car off (original owner!) claimed that the car had done 600,000 miles, and the wear on the steering wheel is consistent with that sort of use.

    I did get the body and engine numbers, and they are definately not a match:
    Body: P-403 2020614
    Engine: 474415 (front end of engine under the exhaust manifold)
    There was also another number under the exhaust at the back of the engine: 27 B 59

    Does this suggest anything further about this car?
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Restoration / Bastardisation of François...

    Scott, couple of things:

    1. Congratulations!

    2. You're a legend. But only if this project doesn't keep you from finishing the 504.

    By the way I trust you know about the Marriott 403 with Douvrin power?
    John W

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    - now on the road

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    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  22. #22
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    Engine number is on the block near the fuel pump and will be the same as the body number for an original car.
    Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    Thanks to all who made the steering wheel suggestion. I had a good look at it and couldnt' find any numbers, so I checked my spare steering wheel. I found the number on the spare (1955), but the same place on the wheel fitted to the car has worn completely smooth with use. The gentleman I bought the car off (original owner!) claimed that the car had done 600,000 miles, and the wear on the steering wheel is consistent with that sort of use.

    I did get the body and engine numbers, and they are definately not a match:
    Body: P-403 2020614
    Engine: 474415 (front end of engine under the exhaust manifold)
    There was also another number under the exhaust at the back of the engine: 27 B 59

    Does this suggest anything further about this car?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    Thanks to all who made the steering wheel suggestion. I had a good look at it and couldnt' find any numbers, so I checked my spare steering wheel. I found the number on the spare (1955), but the same place on the wheel fitted to the car has worn completely smooth with use. The gentleman I bought the car off (original owner!) claimed that the car had done 600,000 miles, and the wear on the steering wheel is consistent with that sort of use.

    I did get the body and engine numbers, and they are definately not a match:
    Body: P-403 2020614
    Engine: 474415 (front end of engine under the exhaust manifold)
    There was also another number under the exhaust at the back of the engine: 27 B 59

    Does this suggest anything further about this car?
    Scott,
    That engine number looks as though it might be a digit short? could be missing a '2' at the front....
    Was the engine number stamped into the block just above the fuel pump mounting location?
    Seem to remember my 2nd 403 was numbered 2481705 (a '61 403 b), which would line up with a later model heart transplant for your high mileage 403.

    Cheers

    john

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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    OK, further inspection after a good clean of about 1/8 inch of crud from the engine an I found the engine number above the fuel pump. And it matches the body number. Turns out that it is the original engine after all.

    Of course this means I'm no closer to confirming the year of the car. I'll investigate the diff theory over the weekend. Any further suggestions on where to look on the diff to perhaps narrow it down?
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    OK, further inspection after a good clean of about 1/8 inch of crud from the engine an I found the engine number above the fuel pump. And it matches the body number. Turns out that it is the original engine after all.

    Of course this means I'm no closer to confirming the year of the car. I'll investigate the diff theory over the weekend. Any further suggestions on where to look on the diff to perhaps narrow it down?

    an early car with the original engine

    very rare combination

    if it were me i'd rebuild it and hey if it's not ready in time for your entry into slavery er i mean marriage then you should be able to borrow a nice 403 or 2 for the day
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

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