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  1. #1
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    Default Radiator fan

    I am looking for a radiator fan for to fit to a 2.5l peugeot Diesel engine. The Dangel has been running with two electric fans in front of the air conditioner condenser and with out the fan which is belt driven off the engine.

    during these hot days and when I am pushing her above 120 kph it tends to get a bit hot because the two electric fans are flat out pushing the air through the condenser. In fact the air sort of diverts up and around the radiator and does not go through the radiator.

    i need a fan on the engine side of the radiator to suck air through.

    can any one help?

    regards Graham

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grahammac View Post
    ......during these hot days and when I am pushing her above 120 kph it tends to get a bit hot because the two electric fans are flat out pushing the air through the condenser. In fact the air sort of diverts up and around the radiator and does not go through the radiator.

    There is your problem.

    At 120 km/h, there should be stacks of airflow and enough to cool the motor passively.
    My fans would probably never come on over 60km/h.

    A few shrouds made of coreflute (or whatever bendable/cutable/stickable 'stuff' takes your fancy) on either side of the radiator will make a world of difference to high speed cooling.
    Your fans need to be shrouded too, and preferably pulling air through if there is the room.
    Fans are there for low speed though when there is not enough passive airflow through the radiator.

    Jo

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post

    There is your problem.

    At 120 km/h, there should be stacks of airflow and enough to cool the motor passively.
    My fans would probably never come on over 60km/h.

    A few shrouds made of coreflute (or whatever bendable/cutable/stickable 'stuff' takes your fancy) on either side of the radiator will make a world of difference to high speed cooling.
    Your fans need to be shrouded too, and preferably pulling air through if there is the room.
    Fans are there for low speed though when there is not enough passive airflow through the radiator.

    Jo
    Shouldn't the fans be on the other side of the radiator pulling the air through instead of spraying it all over the front of it? Also, was the engine equipped with an engine driven fan and if so why was it removed? They produce significant airflow. I might be concerned that the radiator is not the correct size for the engine. Is this an engine swap car? The Dangel should have been made with tropical service in mind, but the radiator may be clogged or the water pump may be on the blink. A radclean might solve your problem, but a new waterpump might also.
    Last edited by Kim Luck; 7th March 2015 at 11:21 PM.
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    Wow. A Dangel....

    The offensive response, which I won't make, might comment about it probably being OK at the speed limit. But I wouldn't say that.

    A bog standard "Super Cheap" commercial aftermarket one would fit? Or then, refit the standard one, especially if it is shrouded nicely.

    Your description sounds as if the condenser and radiator are separated, so why not fit a seal around the gap?

    Nice to hear of another Dangel in Oz - there can't be many. It isn't the one Mark Dyson "legalised" in Perth a few years ago is it?

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Many rally cars , including mine , use a Ford Falcon twin electric fan setup.

    Cheap from any Ford wrecker , thwy come mounted on a plastic shroud that is easly modified for mounting .

    They have a huge air flow and are quite in operation.
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    Yes ,203s are notorious for over heating if you don't have the full fan fitted.
    I have a two bladed Morris Minor fan with works great on a 403 but no luck in a 203.
    On investigating this the bodywork covers the radiator and air coming through the grill just disappears under the car. A piece of corflute horizontally mounted in front of the radiator fixed this and it now runs cool with most of the air coming in passively.
    Maybe some investigation with the 505 might achieve something?

    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post

    There is your problem.

    At 120 km/h, there should be stacks of airflow and enough to cool the motor passively.
    My fans would probably never come on over 60km/h.

    A few shrouds made of coreflute (or whatever bendable/cutable/stickable 'stuff' takes your fancy) on either side of the radiator will make a world of difference to high speed cooling.
    Your fans need to be shrouded too, and preferably pulling air through if there is the room.
    Fans are there for low speed though when there is not enough passive airflow through the radiator.

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Wow. A Dangel....

    The offensive response, which I won't make, might comment about it probably being OK at the speed limit. But I wouldn't say that.

    A bog standard "Super Cheap" commercial aftermarket one would fit? Or then, refit the standard one, especially if it is shrouded nicely.

    Your description sounds as if the condenser and radiator are separated, so why not fit a seal around the gap?

    Nice to hear of another Dangel in Oz - there can't be many. It isn't the one Mark Dyson "legalised" in Perth a few years ago is it?

    Cheers
    re speed limit.

    i have just arrived back from the Northern Territory speed limit up there is over 120kph and it is bloody hot. I don't have a problem in good old Queensland where the roads are so bad mostly they have restrictions of 80 or 90kph on them.

    yes it is the one that I imported to Freemanftle and Mark did a lot of the work to enable it to be registered. Since then I have done about 56000 kilometres in it.
    It is a thing of beauty to me.
    thanks for the suggestions.

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    Just to prove a point, you have to fix the angle of the....... Dangel
    ....now watch a Peugeot turn into a corner!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Shouldn't the fans be on the other side of the radiator pulling the air through instead of spraying it all over the front of it? Also, was the engine equipped with an engine driven fan and if so why was it removed? They produce significant airflow. I might be concerned that the radiator is not the correct size for the engine. Is this an engine swap car? The Dangel should have been made with tropical service in mind, but the radiator may be clogged or the water pump may be on the blink. A radclean might solve your problem, but a new waterpump might also.
    Radiator is new and larger than the standard one, water pump and thermostat are new. The fans are on the outside pushing air because the new radiator is a bit thicker than the old one and the fans could not be fitted on the engine side. The Dangel did not have an engine fan when it arrived from France. I think I will reinstate the engine fan and get a shroud fabricated and I might also do what other have suggested and put in some corflute to direct more air directly through the radiator.

    thanks.

    graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by PugMonkey View Post
    Just to prove a point, you have to fix the angle of the....... Dangel
    enough with the Dangel jokes.

    my wife refers to it as my 'little dangel' or she tells people 'he is out playing with his dangel'

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    Without telling anyone how to suck eggs, have you checked that the fans are drawing air in and not spinning in the wrong direction and negating the natural air flow?

    A friend had a similar problem some year ago which was solved by changing the direction the fan was spinning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahammac View Post
    re speed limit.

    i have just arrived back from the Northern Territory speed limit up there is over 120kph and it is bloody hot. I don't have a problem in good old Queensland where the roads are so bad mostly they have restrictions of 80 or 90kph on them.

    yes it is the one that I imported to Freemanftle and Mark did a lot of the work to enable it to be registered. Since then I have done about 56000 kilometres in it.
    It is a thing of beauty to me.
    thanks for the suggestions.
    re speed limit: ah...... That explains it. Yes, bit warm in the NT at times. I've just been working up the Birdsville Track and the same can be said.

    I remember the car arriving in Perth and Mark sweating blood over some things. Fascinating car and I'm so pleased to have news of it. I remember thinking it looked as tough as nails.

    I'm in touch with Mark from time to time and will let him know it has done well.

    Over the years there have been various rear-engined Renault heating issues with large engines and mostly getting the fans shrouded properly has solved it, as others have suggested here.

    Good luck with the fix.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by philipjh View Post
    Without telling anyone how to suck eggs, have you checked that the fans are drawing air in and not spinning in the wrong direction and negating the natural air flow?

    A friend had a similar problem some year ago which was solved by changing the direction the fan was spinning.
    yep they are going the right way but too much air is being forced up and around both the condenser and hence the radiator is hardly getting anything.

    just took it for a gallop now and in the cool of the morning it is still running too hot for my liking.

    i did notice that the fans are only running when the AC is on, so when I turned the AC off it made no difference.

    i am going to get the whole set up changed so I can either put a pull electric fan on the engine side or try to put an original type engine fan off the Pully. These engine fans are as scarce as hens teeth.

    This is will mean moving the AC condenser, the radiator etc forward by about an inch or so so everything can happily reside on the engine side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahammac View Post
    Radiator is new and larger than the standard one, water pump and thermostat are new. The fans are on the outside pushing air because the new radiator is a bit thicker than the old one and the fans could not be fitted on the engine side. The Dangel did not have an engine fan when it arrived from France. I think I will reinstate the engine fan and get a shroud fabricated and I might also do what other have suggested and put in some corflute to direct more air directly through the radiator.

    thanks.

    graham
    If you get all the aerodynamic air through the radiator and not beside it, and the gap between the AC and the coolant radiator blocked and your fans blowing through the radiators, you may find that nothing more is needed in regards to airflow through the radiator.

    Does it have oil cooling???
    At 120km/h I wonder if your oil temps are sky high too.
    My fuego oil would get real hot on the highway regardless of coolant temp (115C oil…..79C coolant).
    A pug 205 heat exchanger brought that down closer to the 100 C I like it to be.

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahammac View Post
    yep they are going the right way but too much air is being forced up and around both the condenser and hence the radiator is hardly getting anything.

    just took it for a gallop now and in the cool of the morning it is still running too hot for my liking.

    i did notice that the fans are only running when the AC is on, so when I turned the AC off it made no difference.

    i am going to get the whole set up changed so I can either put a pull electric fan on the engine side or try to put an original type engine fan off the Pully. These engine fans are as scarce as hens teeth.

    This is will mean moving the AC condenser, the radiator etc forward by about an inch or so so everything can happily reside on the engine side.
    I'd keep thinking myself, not trying to be smart from a long distance, that it should be possible to get the configuration you have already to work properly. We have three Peugeot/Citroen cars with AC and pusher fans with the condenser in front of the radiator and no cooling issues ever except once when a radiator itself was suspect. Ours have good shrouding and the condenser firmly touching the radiator. All three of them have the fans both full on when AC is switched on.

    Then there's waterless coolant that tolerates higher temperatures without boiling.... Or so they say.

    Still, I'm here and the car is there so mustn't be smart from afar.
    Last edited by JohnW; 8th March 2015 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Another idea.
    JohnW

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    I think that a lot a lot of people are chatting about different scenarios and not getting close to what Graham is after.

    He is after a diesel fan that has a LH thread which screws onto the pulley in front of the diesel pump.
    It is similar to a GTi or STi one but they are not interchangeable.

    They are oil filled. Has anyone got one on a wreck that he could buy ?
    I use a 15" shifter and a stillson on the pulley to undo them...LH thread. I am sure there is a better way but this works for me.

    They can be very tight and 2 people are needed sometimes to undo them. Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob D View Post
    I think that a lot a lot of people are chatting about different scenarios and not getting close to what Graham is after.

    He is after a diesel fan that has a LH thread which screws onto the pulley in front of the diesel pump.
    It is similar to a GTi or STi one but they are not interchangeable.

    They are oil filled. Has anyone got one on a wreck that he could buy ?
    I use a 15" shifter and a stillson on the pulley to undo them...LH thread. I am sure there is a better way but this works for me.

    They can be very tight and 2 people are needed sometimes to undo them. Bob
    Bob is my technical adviser. He explains things I don't understand.

    Bob, I thought you might be a bit busy mopping out the house and doing the washing up for Leonie.

    i bet after a week of this the dishwasher is getting a pretty good work out.

    Thanks for clarifying my muddle yet again.

    so come on guys find me a fan. I will do all the other stuff to. Well I won't but ALLAN Parker will when he comes up to do Hank's Cape York trip in June.
    thanks Graham

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    Excuse my ignorance but are these oil filled fans similar to the viscous fan clutches that BMW's use(d)?

    They have a left hand thread that attaches them to the water pump and the speed of the fan varies according to the temperature.

    If these don't behave correctly then the fan doesn't pull enough air through and overheating occurs. A crude fix on these occasions can be a simple tek screw through the body of the clutch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by philipjh View Post
    Excuse my ignorance but are these oil filled fans similar to the viscous fan clutches that BMW's use(d)?

    They have a left hand thread that attaches them to the water pump and the speed of the fan varies according to the temperature.

    If these don't behave correctly then the fan doesn't pull enough air through and overheating occurs. A crude fix on these occasions can be a simple tek screw through the body of the clutch.
    You will have to wait for my technical advisor to respond. I don't know about these matters, I just drive the car, Bob D has all this technical knowledge.

    regards Graham

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    You should find that a good rad/air con repairer or Repco parts store could supply a Viscos coupling that you are seeking. Unfortunately they cannot supply Peugeot equivalent unit but other models do fit (BMW, Ford, Toyota and more) but you need to get the fan blades to suit and the diameter and lock up temp varies on different units.
    These units have mostly a bimetallic strip on the face that when heated up by the radiator expands causing it to bow convex and releasing a pin in the centre.
    My other surgestion is to check that there is no build up of grass or bugs between the radiator and condenser restricting the air flow.
    The electric fans should come on at low speed with radiator temp and change to high speed with high temp or air con activation.
    Regards Mark

    hope this helps

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Just in passing, viscous fans operate using a fluid whose viscosity changes between a drive and driven plate according to temperature. As the temperature increases the fluid becomes more viscous passing drive from one plate to the other. I'm not familiar with thermo-mechanical units.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahammac View Post
    You will have to wait for my technical advisor to respond. I don't know about these matters, I just drive the car, Bob D has all this technical knowledge.

    regards Graham
    I'll bet you didn't expect this thread to develop as it has Graham. Shows the interest from the members of this forum!

    I wonder whether the radiator core has finer finning than the condenser? It might act as an air dam relative to the condenser that is mounted ahead of it? If so, the "sucking" fan makes a bit more sense to me, if shrouded.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    If you get all the aerodynamic air through the radiator and not beside it, and the gap between the AC and the coolant radiator blocked and your fans blowing through the radiators, you may find that nothing more is needed in regards to airflow through the radiator.

    Does it have oil cooling???
    At 120km/h I wonder if your oil temps are sky high too.
    My fuego oil would get real hot on the highway regardless of coolant temp (115C oil…..79C coolant).
    A pug 205 heat exchanger brought that down closer to the 100 C I like it to be.

    Jo
    Yes Jo an oil cooler off the turbo could be what is needed.

    i have just had an hour with the local brains trust and they say that without relocating both the AC condensor and the radiator about an inch and a half further forward we will not fit a fan on the LH thread pully, which by the way seems to be in need of a new bearing.

    they say a suck fan on the engine side would not make much difference because it is opposing the one on the outside of the condensor and they are both pushing and sucking at the same rate (anyone getting excited yet?)

    so so they have all come to the conclusion that Dangel needs an oil cooler on the turbo oil line.

    it has a small one on the return line to the oil filter but it is badly mounted. Air can get into it but can't flow through because it is mounted flush up against the cross member.

    probably OK in the French Alps and for the occasional short dash in Africa, but it comes up short on long hot hard driving days in Australia.

    funnily enough the temperature here today is about 30 degrees and I have just taken her for a gallop with AC full bore and operating temperature was fine.

    thanks and Regards Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I'll bet you didn't expect this thread to develop as it has Graham. Shows the interest from the members of this forum!

    I wonder whether the radiator core has finer finning than the condenser? It might act as an air dam relative to the condenser that is mounted ahead of it? If so, the "sucking" fan makes a bit more sense to me, if shrouded.
    Yes I have never had so many replies and I am grateful for the feedback. It makes me sound real smart when I talk to the brains trust.

    they wonder where I got all my technical knowledge so fast.
    the old story, BS beats brains any day

    graham

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    BMW fans....the Peugeot ones are NLA apparently and this may be an interesting source if the thread is the same.
    We just refilled one with Toyota silicon oil to get one working but it is guesswork and we didnt know how much oil to put in. I think too much went in and it seems to run for longer than it should.
    Thanks Philip for your thought.

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