WTB Fuego engine
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  1. #1
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Default WTB Fuego engine

    Just posting this for someone who couldn't do it.

    He is after a good condition late model (power steer) engine for his Fuego. (Apparently the local bastard wreckers is Airport West don't wreck Fuego's any more because there to old). He is in Eltham and will pick up anywhere in Melbourne area.

    His name is Michael and his phone number is 0405186898

    Can anyone help keep another Fuego on the road.

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    David Cavanagh

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Wow, are we witnessing the first person in the universe to have blown up a fuego engine???


    Just in case someone has an early model engine on offer, Im not aware of any difference except in the layout of the PS and dizzy and that is all bolt on stuff.



    jo

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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Wow, are we witnessing the first person in the universe to have blown up a fuego engine???


    Just in case someone has an early model engine on offer, Im not aware of any difference except in the layout of the PS and dizzy and that is all bolt on stuff.



    jo
    Don't know if it's blown up but it has done a head gasket and his mechanic says it would be better to change the motor. Might have kept driving until it was glowing red hot for all I know.

    We suggested an early motor but I think that's to hard.
    David Cavanagh

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    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
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    [email protected]

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  4. #4
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    Jo - it seems the problem was an overheated engine and blown head gasket, I suggested that he could just replace the head gasket and all should be o.k., but his mechanic has advised fitting a replacement engine. Not sure that is necessary but I do have some engines that might suit his purposes, and we are not far away.

    Not sure what the concern is from the mechanic but will eventually find out - sounds like a genuine owned from new Fuego lover, so very much worth while assisting him to get the car back on the road.

    Ken

  5. #5
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Jo - it seems the problem was an overheated engine and blown head gasket, I suggested that he could just replace the head gasket and all should be o.k., but his mechanic has advised fitting a replacement engine. Not sure that is necessary but I do have some engines that might suit his purposes, and we are not far away.

    Not sure what the concern is from the mechanic but will eventually find out - sounds like a genuine owned from new Fuego lover, so very much worth while assisting him to get the car back on the road.

    Ken
    Ken, that's him. Had it since new and doesn't want to give up on it. If you can help him please do it.
    David Cavanagh

    FRENCH CONNECTION / PEUGEO WRECKING / RENOSPARES / CITROWRECK

    03 9338 8191 or 03 93354008

    34 KING St
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    VIC 3042


    [email protected]

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  6. #6
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    Will do Dave, that's what we exist for!!

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post

    We suggested an early motor but I think that's to hard.
    How so...?

    The differences are minor and if the car has ps, all the late bits just bolt on to the early motor.

    If the mechanic thinks he can simply grab any old motor and whack it in and it will work without any issue, he is about 15 years too late.

    Then again, youse guys probably know all this

    Jo

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    I think the camshaft is different b/w power and non-power steer cars - in relation to the slot on the back for the distributor drive was replaced by a tap for a bolt to mount the pulley.

    I won't stand up in court on that, its been a mighty long time - but worth checking.

    (ps - someone should tell those bastard wreckers that they can surely keep some old stuff lying about to help the silly buyers who insist on old cars... Greedy capitalist swines)

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Nope, they are the same.

    Both have offset keyways and a drilled an taped hole, and the 'plug' that is added to the cam for the PS model simply butts into the flange regardless of the keyway.
    Never seen a fuego cam or any other douvrin cam for that matter with no offset keyway on the rear of the cam.
    Obviously you'll need a rear cam seal in a Ps model as the job is taken care of (or not as is usual) by the dizzy on the non PS.

    I just sighted two fuego's cams in place, an '86 and an '82 and they appear the same.

    A thing you cannot do though is move a low dizzy to the high location and vice versa, as one is attached with 3 bolts and the other with 2 (just for starters).

    Interestingly, the '82 head even has the holes drilled and tapped ready for the PS pump bracket, so adding PS to a series 1 really is a bolt on mod (albeit lots of bolts and lots of mods).

    Jo

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    Goodo

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    maybe the mechanics thinking is if he repairs existing and it goes pear shaped its his fault, where as a crap replacement motor supplied by owner is owners fault ,less likely hood of opening a can of worms ,maybe ,PUGS

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Both have offset keyways and a drilled an taped hole, and the 'plug' that is added to the cam for the PS model simply butts into the flange regardless of the keyway.

    .................so adding PS to a series 1 really is a bolt on mod (albeit lots of bolts and lots of mods).
    Jo
    Jo et all,

    Just to add my bit, did just a conversion as being discussed.
    My experience is that the cams are the same, keyway wise, as noted, however, my original late 84 cam had a hole for the extension block but it didn't have any thread.
    Obviously saved themselves 25c.

    Tapping was not a problem.

    Can confirm everything is a bolt-on proposition.

    David

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    Jo et all,

    Just to add my bit, did just a conversion as being discussed.
    My experience is that the cams are the same, keyway wise, as noted, however, my original late 84 cam had a hole for the extension block but it didn't have any thread.
    Obviously saved themselves 25c.

    Tapping was not a problem.

    Can confirm everything is a bolt-on proposition.

    David
    Hmm, didn't actually check the thread, and will do so right now.....

    Well there you go....Right you are!!!

    Jo

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    Situation as it stands, is that Michael called in today. I have looked at the parts I have stored and I have a partially stripped power steering engine, twas a good operating motor when it donated bits to Haakon and after that had the head removed, lower half has the distributor in place, so its now a freebie.

    I think the mechanic would like a complete operating motor to just drop in. I still have one in my car and one in another that requires a stripped plug thread fixed. I have an earlier motor that was removed from a Fuego (The champagne gold one - Haakon knows) It sustained damage to the left front just after it was completely overhauled (engine) (so I was told) when the owner loaned it to a mate who went too fast into a corner and then backed off with the usual result!! This was claimed to have only done 92,000 km and overhauled at a French car specialist garage. I would always take a claim of low mileage with a grain of salt. This was a spare kept for Di's old non power steer million plus km Fuego, that I am now scrapping.

    I have offered that motor plus the lower part of the other as a possibility. The owner is keen to get his car back on the road, but whatever route he takes, it will cost him hours of mechanic labour rates, so its a case of doing the final sums (it will be expensive even with low cost s/hand parts) as it will take time.

    My preferred route if the car was mine, is to slot in a running motor as a stop gap idea to get the car back on the road (this too will be expensive unless the owner was able to work on it himself - he isn't in that position)

    My ideal solution, would be to scrap the pistons and liners from his old motor, buy a new set with all seals from Ken at Caravelle, that would give him a newly built up motor that will see him out once fitted (basically the route I will go with my own Fuego, along with a new paint job and some cosmetic repairs.

    These days it is almost prohibitively expensive to employ someone to do all that, as you will never recover the cost if you later went to sell the car or trade it in, (if they would) so it is a labour of love and determination and having the disposable money to indulge for the love of the car.

    The quick and dirty choice is grab any available running engine or one that can be statically tested, turned over, check for compression and get the car back running on the road. Then later pay someone to build the perfect engine with new parts if you can't do it yourself.

    Mind you I would rather deal with a car I've pulled apart, checked, cut out rust, prepped and fully prepared, with all the most common and still readily available parts replaced and gently modified as per Mistarenno's, Jo Proffi's and others tried and proven tricks.

    If you do or oversee such a restoration, you know it will be what you want.

    I have seen many so called perfect Fuego's claimed by owners, but you will always find hidden rust, bodgey repairs with poor workmanship, in all the expected places and price is no indication of perfection!!
    Do it yourself or under your supervision, as that, you can trust!! but don't expect to recover the costs except in reliability and personal satisfaction.

    Apparently his mechanic will make contact in due course to discuss options. If you have a very good P/S engine complete with no work needed by all means give him a ring, no harm increasing the options for him as he will have lots of decisions to make. The more options the better!!

    Ken

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Situation as it stands, is that Michael called in today. I have looked at the parts I have stored and I have a partially stripped power steering engine, twas a good operating motor when it donated bits to Haakon and after that had the head removed, lower half has the distributor in place, so its now a freebie.

    I think the mechanic would like a complete operating motor to just drop in. I still have one in my car and one in another that requires a stripped plug thread fixed. I have an earlier motor that was removed from a Fuego (The champagne gold one - Haakon knows) It sustained damage to the left front just after it was completely overhauled (engine) (so I was told) when the owner loaned it to a mate who went too fast into a corner and then backed off with the usual result!! This was claimed to have only done 92,000 km and overhauled at a French car specialist garage. I would always take a claim of low mileage with a grain of salt. This was a spare kept for Di's old non power steer million plus km Fuego, that I am now scrapping.

    I have offered that motor plus the lower part of the other as a possibility. The owner is keen to get his car back on the road, but whatever route he takes, it will cost him hours of mechanic labour rates, so its a case of doing the final sums (it will be expensive even with low cost s/hand parts) as it will take time.

    My preferred route if the car was mine, is to slot in a running motor as a stop gap idea to get the car back on the road (this too will be expensive unless the owner was able to work on it himself - he isn't in that position)

    My ideal solution, would be to scrap the pistons and liners from his old motor, buy a new set with all seals from Ken at Caravelle, that would give him a newly built up motor that will see him out once fitted (basically the route I will go with my own Fuego, along with a new paint job and some cosmetic repairs.

    These days it is almost prohibitively expensive to employ someone to do all that, as you will never recover the cost if you later went to sell the car or trade it in, (if they would) so it is a labour of love and determination and having the disposable money to indulge for the love of the car.

    The quick and dirty choice is grab any available running engine or one that can be statically tested, turned over, check for compression and get the car back running on the road. Then later pay someone to build the perfect engine with new parts if you can't do it yourself.

    Mind you I would rather deal with a car I've pulled apart, checked, cut out rust, prepped and fully prepared, with all the most common and still readily available parts replaced and gently modified as per Mistarenno's, Jo Proffi's and others tried and proven tricks.

    If you do or oversee such a restoration, you know it will be what you want.

    I have seen many so called perfect Fuego's claimed by owners, but you will always find hidden rust, bodgey repairs with poor workmanship, in all the expected places and price is no indication of perfection!!
    Do it yourself or under your supervision, as that, you can trust!! but don't expect to recover the costs except in reliability and personal satisfaction.

    Apparently his mechanic will make contact in due course to discuss options. If you have a very good P/S engine complete with no work needed by all means give him a ring, no harm increasing the options for him as he will have lots of decisions to make. The more options the better!!

    Ken
    If it were me I'd "waste" some money and pull the head off and check out the damage, if any.

    A cylinder head gasket on a Douvrin 4 promises to cheaper than whole engine swap and a lot less mucking around, think cost. At least the engine is known quantity,

    Is this dudes mechanic a mechanic or a parts changer?

    Oh I forgot it's french and too oddball and complex to pull apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    If it were me I'd "waste" some money and pull the head off and check out the damage, if any.

    A cylinder head gasket on a Douvrin 4 promises to cheaper than whole engine swap and a lot less mucking around, think cost. At least the engine is known quantity,

    Is this dudes mechanic a mechanic or a parts changer?

    Oh I forgot it's french and too oddball and complex to pull apart.
    Rob, its a difficult position for the owner, and if you look at Jo's test to destruction/run to eternity engine post,and Haakons R21 engine comment that owners travails with an overheating Douvrin motor, it didn't even seize up, was just hot and smoky. I am confident the motor would survive on a new gasket, but then, I am just a Fuego enthusiast, not a professional mechanic who has to stand behind the final product they fix. So I can understand the mechanic side of things too.

    Ken

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    My ideal solution, would be to scrap the pistons and liners from his old motor, buy a new set with all seals from Ken at Caravelle, that would give him a newly built up motor that will see him out once fitted (basically the route I will go with my own Fuego, along with a new paint job and some cosmetic repairs.
    Once bitten, twice shy.

    I bought a new set of piston and liners a few years back.
    Was a bit crazy with the measuring at the time and thought for a comparison I'd measure up the new liners.
    Holly crap, they were machined with a banana and were bigger than the 25 year old OE ones that had been re honed.
    $400 of pure shite.
    Still got them in the box......and the pistons looked, felt and sounded like shite also. Didn't use them either.

    So dont think just because they are new, they are better.

    There are some really really shonky spare parts coming out of those shops we all shop at. The pity is, we dont have too many options, but re manufacturing your old parts, or simply just re using them is looking like a better option in many cases.

    Jo

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    So he is going to fit a "known good" engine to 30 year old plus car? What kind of condition is replacement engine likely to be?

    What the mechanic is doing is "bottom covering" ie cop his fee for labor and step away from the job . "You found the engine mate: I just fitted it".

    In view of the car being single owner and loved and cherished what the chance of the engine car being pretty sound? Very good chance and in that case head gasket, at least an inspection is warranted.


    He should also be told a new radiator/ cooling fans are likely to be needed.

    I'd steer him towards a froggy mechanic rather than the local servo or ultra tune(?).

    I see you are in a difficult position too.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    So he is going to fit a "known good" engine to 30 year old plus car? What kind of condition is replacement engine likely to be?

    What the mechanic is doing is "bottom covering" ie cop his fee for labor and step away from the job . "You found the engine mate: I just fitted it".

    In view of the car being single owner and loved and cherished what the chance of the engine car being pretty sound? Very good chance and in that case head gasket, at least an inspection is warranted.


    He should also be told a new radiator/ cooling fans are likely to be needed.

    I'd steer him towards a froggy mechanic rather than the local servo or ultra tune(?).

    I see you are in a difficult position too.
    +1.

    Time to find a new mechanic for the old chap.

    Jo

  20. #20
    COL
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    Hi Ken

    What is the guys budget to get the engine fixed??

    Could strip the engine completely clean everything; give the liners a light hone; replace the bearings and rings; give the head a valve grind and a light skim; the reassemble with a new gasket set; new timing belt.

    Would give a know engine that will probably last another 100-200,000 Km
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Ken

    What is the guys budget to get the engine fixed??

    Could strip the engine completely clean everything; give the liners a light hone; replace the bearings and rings; give the head a valve grind and a light skim; the reassemble with a new gasket set; new timing belt.

    Would give a know engine that will probably last another 100-200,000 Km
    Col

    That is one of the options, I'd hope to discuss with the mechanic, I guess he needs to be sure that the end product will be up to the hours that he puts into it, i.e. as said, to justify the cost that really can't be avoided unless an owner was skilled enough to do the job himself.

    Otherwise the Fuego ends up like so many that Haakon and I have seen at Pick-a-Part. Well maintained cars with lots of brand new parts (tyres, wheels, exhaust systems, reco-gearbox, replacement alternators and freshly recoed starter motors, air conditioner compressors, new shockers etc and of course all the go faster trim stuff) and the car sitting there head unbolted and bent valves from cam belt failure, the owner neglecting to renew the $32 cambelt!!

    You know that the owner had spent one lot of good money after the other, but had to baulk at the additional cost of a complete engine overhaul or replacement, and years back the quotes/estimations then were around the $2,000 mark. This phenomenon ensured an excellent supply of both good replacement parts and of course body parts. Good for us, but a lot of really good Fuego's ended up as scrap.

    I recall spending a day at Pick-a-Part, removing a new exhaust system, the back hatch window, good interior trim and the Bosch alternator replacement for the Paris Rhone original, and the later long starter motor. I paid for those and intended to come back and remove the nice clean transmission complete with a well known transmission specialist shiny sticker, but the next day the shell was gone! Bummer, moved out to the crushers!!

    When you total up the garage costs for each of the items on the car (probably $500 labour costs for most mechanical jobs at least) it is easy to see the practical and economic reasons for the owner giving up on the Fuego. My first Fuego I purchased (now with Di) had 5 brand new TRX tyres, extensive garage service history, new exhaust system, brake parts etc and the clutch went (estimated cost to replace was $600) the lady owner reluctantly gave up on it - $180 for a replacement clutch had it back on the road and its still going, but like me feeling its age!!

    I think Jo would confirm similar stories with his series of cars, and the one enduring theme of course is the robust forgiving nature of the engines.

    In my early Fuego days a garage owner that had taken over another business asked me if I knew of an owner that might want a motor as he had five (perhaps more) sitting out the back and couldn't sell them. I told him that no one would need them as I had been told the motors were virtually indestructible!! Seems these days they would be needed...

    Regards

    Ken

  22. #22
    COL
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    Ken

    If the owner is going to keep the car for at least the next 5 years I think the investment in the motor would be worth it. I know its a lot of money up front for a car that is not really worth a lot of money on the open car market, but spreading that money over 5 years with peace of mind that only thing that you will need to is change oil and filter at regular intervals. I'm also assuming that the rest of the car is in good condition so that he will benefit from the money invested.

    The other way to look at it is the money spent on the motor will be far less than the depreciation spent on replacing the car.
    Regards Col

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