FormulaOne make-over in 2008
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Default FormulaOne make-over in 2008

    The FIA in 2008 are planning to introduce a new look rear wing for FormulaOne cars, mainly to decrease turbulance and encrouage overtaking

    here is the new look F1 car:

    Appoligies if people have already seen this posted in a ermm ahh BMW forum...

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    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
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    Looks like they are leaving a hole for a jet motor in the middle!

    I dont see why they need to go to the expense of designing a completely new rear wing type. All they need to do is regulate where teams can put aerodynamic devices.

    This could be easily done by setting sizes for front and rear wings, banning all the other little things and maybe - just maybe bringing back under-floor aerodynamic effect.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by gti138
    Looks like they are leaving a hole for a jet motor in the middle!

    I dont see why they need to go to the expense of designing a completely new rear wing type. All they need to do is regulate where teams can put aerodynamic devices.

    This could be easily done by setting sizes for front and rear wings, banning all the other little things and maybe - just maybe bringing back under-floor aerodynamic effect.....
    I'm already seeing how Red Bull team will decorate their cars...they'll just slap two of those wings from the ad to make the car fly instead, and go supersonic
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    Quote Originally Posted by J206GTI
    I'm already seeing how Red Bull team will decorate their cars...they'll just slap two of those wings...
    Red Bull, gives you wings

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    I am all for any improvements encouraging closer racing and more passing. By all accounts, it seems that the design changes to front wing ride heights introduced by the FIA this year have made things worse - the turbulence created by the leading car upsets the aerodynamics of the trailing car so much that passing becomes impossible.

    Having a split rear wing raises some interesting possibilities. Maybe it is possible to have more angle of attack on one wing over the other, for example on the inside wheel to load it up more on corners. Do you think that (a) this would work, or (b) the asymmetry would lead to instability on the straights? Interesting...
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    I was just reading on grandprix.com and they believe that the biggest impact of the "new wing" is to team sponsors. The elements of the rear wing are about the most visible area on cars and all the teams use them to get their sponsor's product out there.

    The two smaller wings dont give nearly as much exposure...
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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gti138
    I dont see why they need to go to the expense of designing a completely new rear wing type. All they need to do is regulate where teams can put aerodynamic devices.

    This could be easily done by setting sizes for front and rear wings, banning all the other little things and maybe - just maybe bringing back under-floor aerodynamic effect
    I agree with this one. F1 cars look like bloody stonefish (http://www.avru.unimelb.edu.au/avruweb/stingin.htm).
    Cheers Simon
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    Yeah I am not a fan of the new proposed wings either.

    interesting diagram showing how the turbulance differs on each design:



    The first visual confirmation that motorsport's governing body is preparing to 'go radical' in its ambition to spice up Formula One appeared over the weekend, with images of a two-piece rear wing that could form part of the 2008 regulations.

    Following its consultation with fans over what they would like to see in future Formula One rulebooks, the FIA was made well aware that what they wanted more than anything else was overtaking - some 94 per cent of respondents put it at the top of their wish-list in the FIA/AMD survey - leading to the initiation of a programme to improve the situation in time for the introduction of new regulations in two years time.

    Most aerodynamic research has aimed to improve car performance when running in 'clean' air, but, in race conditions, that is hard to find as cars follow each other closely, with the wake of the leading car significantly reducing the aerodynamic performance of the chasing cars, making overtaking difficult and, often, impossible.

    With the general rule that the better the aerodynamic performance of a car running on its own, the worse the effect on the car behind, the FIA responded to the results of its survey with a research programme designed to improve the aerodynamic performance of a car when trying to overtake. The objective was to produce regulations for a car shape which would create a wake in which a following car would generate more downforce with reduced drag, leading to increased overtaking opportunity.

    With the help of technology partner AMD, the research team reached a preliminary conclusion called the 'CDG - or Centreline Downwash Generating - Wing'. The idea will be presented to the Formula One Commission at its next meeting, scheduled for London today [Monday 24 October], but the FIA clearly intends that the radical split design, which has individual wings behind each rear wheel but nothing between them, will form part of the new rulebook, along with a return to wider wheels and slick tyres.

    Indeed, it has been suggested that, with the support and collaboration of the teams, it may be possible to introduce these changes as early as 2007.

    "This new research is important for the future of Formula One," FIA president Max Mosley said, "By introducing the CDG wing we can give motorsport fans exactly what they have asked for, wheel-to-wheel racing with much more overtaking.

    "It is our hope that the teams will collaborate with us in the optimisation of this radical new idea so that the aerodynamic benefits can be introduced into Formula One in 2007, rather than having to wait until 2008."
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    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    I think they should allow for more mechanical grip with full slick tyres, smaller barge board, smaller overall wings; and no rear vision (only side vision) mirrors, and passing will increase. But alas the faster cars will still be at the front etc. - Chris
    ... ptui!

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    Fellow Frogger! PLAYLIFE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSpecial1
    Having a split rear wing raises some interesting possibilities. Maybe it is possible to have more angle of attack on one wing over the other, for example on the inside wheel to load it up more on corners. Do you think that (a) this would work, or (b) the asymmetry would lead to instability on the straights? Interesting...

    This has already been done. Ferrari at Long Beach in 1982 with the 126C2 had a 'split rear wing' where one half was moved forward. Not sure if it worked, but the car was disqualified because the wings were too wide. I assume it improved the performance otherwise they would not have done it I suppose.

    This is just a model but I will try and find a real picture.


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    Last edited by PLAYLIFE; 25th October 2005 at 01:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    I think they should allow for more mechanical grip with full slick tyres, smaller barge board, smaller overall wings; and no rear vision (only side vision) mirrors
    And while they are at it, re-introduce clutches and 'h' pattern gear changes.
    Cheers Simon
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    The above 126C2 is a good example on the aero direction to take. Ground effects with limited skirts (or ban skirts completely) with very thin front and rear aerofoils.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLAYLIFE
    The above 126C2 is a good example on the aero direction to take. Ground effects with limited skirts (or ban skirts completely) with very thin front and rear aerofoils.
    Call that ground effects! This is ground effects:
    http://8w.forix.com/fancar.html
    Cheers Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Call that ground effects! This is ground effects:
    http://8w.forix.com/fancar.html

    Indeed what a car, the BT46B, but wasn't revolutionary by any means. It was simply a Formula 1 version of the Can-Am Chaparral 2J from the early 70's.


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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    That's what I call a blower-vac!
    Cheers Simon
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    Whenever I used to see that car in GT4 I could never concentrate. Its like driving behind two washing machines bolted together, which somehow manage to make the car go forward very fast.

    Interesting changes for the cars though. I like what they are trying to do. But the point regarding sponsorship space the teams can auction on their cars is a good one. Esp in the post tabacco advertising world...

  17. #17
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    It looks a bit different, but obviously they have done a bit of work on it. From the wake diagram, it may also cut down on spray in the wet substatially too, which would be a good help.

    Whatever they do should include banning the “wing-on-a-stick” add-ons that a few of the teams had this year! I would have thought that going back to single element wings and restricting the camber of the wing sections would allow a large advertising area with a big cut in downforce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    And while they are at it, re-introduce clutches and 'h' pattern gear changes.
    Oooh.. now that would be very interesting. But I just wan't to see passing not more mistakes. But, I suppose anything that seperates the men from the boys

    Here is something for you all to think about:

    - Valentino Rossi in an F1 car for 2008!

    - M. Schumacher tried a MotoGp bike and was over 40secs of pace, were as Rossi's best lap a Fio was within 5 secs, again rumours but hey just about anything connectec to F1 & the FIA ussually is.

    - M. Schumachers first bike once in F1 was a Ducati Monster, fast forward several year what does he still ride????...... a Ducati Monster. How's this relate to this thread & AF well... i own one, so I'm being a little smug,..ok?

    http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/051024/2/ejcq.html

    http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/ind...html#msg380306

    - Chris
    ... ptui!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    Rossi's best lap a Fio was within 5 secs, again rumours but hey just about anything connectec to F1 & the FIA ussually is.

    - Chris
    Chris, I heard (rumours of course ) that Rossi's times around Fio' were much quicker then just 5 seconds off the pace. Maybe 5 seconds after the first couple of laps but then much quicker after he got warmed up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    But alas the faster cars will still be at the front etc. - Chris
    one would hope ...



    Im not sure the split wing is a good thing though. The traditional look of the F1 car (and any other sportscar) is with a single rear wing. Surely it wold be easier for FIA to provide one wing (controlled device) that looks like the old wing but creates neutral or positive pressure behind it. then the sponsors still have a large billboard cost of that one development goes down but I still can help but think some geniuses in the aerodynamics department will still find a way to create a sizeable downforce by creating turbulance before the wing that will perfectly match the wing shape... (better mousetrap).
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by n b j
    Chris, I heard (rumours of course ) that Rossi's times around Fio' were much quicker then just 5 seconds off the pace. Maybe 5 seconds after the first couple of laps but then much quicker after he got warmed up.
    ... so what did Rossi start his motorsport carreer in???? can any one tell me!!! anyone???,..... - chris


    ps id back myself to get whithin 5 of MS in his car too... infact Niki Hayden & Micheal Andretti did the swap keys thing too. Niki too out the Champ Car and got within 7 Seconds of Micheals time. Were MA losst bout 25 secs... but interesting never the less.... pps thats all from 1st hand memory so... grain of salt.
    ... ptui!

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    ... so what did Rossi start his motorsport carreer in???? can any one tell me!!! anyone???,.....
    A kart.
    Cheers Simon
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    yeah, obviously Karting
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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n b j
    yeah, obviously Karting
    If you're not racing karts by the age of 5 you can forget about being world champion.
    Cheers Simon
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    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    If you're not racing karts by the age of 5 you can forget about being world champion.
    So are you saying it's too late for me? Way to wreck a dream
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