McLaren show of it's new V8
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Default McLaren show of it's new V8



    September 22, 2005 Formula One is set for a major shake-up next year when the three-litre V10 engines of the last decade will be replaced by 2.4 litre V8 engines and the technological prowess of Renault, Mercedes, BMW, Cosworth, Ferrari and Honda will be tested to the max in the most expensive, ongoing, combatitive sport man has ever known. On Tuesday and Wednesday at the Silverstone GP circuit in the UK, the 2006 season Mercedes-Benz Formula One engine was tested on the race track for the first time. Pedro de la Rosa was at the wheel of the interim Team McLaren Mercedes MP4-20B, a modified version of the 2005 race car which has been adjusted to fit the new engine. Pedro completed 38 laps on Tuesday and 40 laps on Wednesday and achieved a best time of 1:22.974. Champion-elect Fernando Alonso in a Renault with V10 engine posted the fastest lap of the test with a 1:17.018.

    The Mercedes-Benz V8 engine's debut came almost exactly three months after the first dyno run. Since that day the engine has completed a couple of thousand test kilometres on the dyno. The new V8 engine generation will have about 200 HP less than the currently used V10 engines.

    The new V8 Formula One engine FO 108S has been designed and built from scratch. The new engine rules place tighter restrictions on the manufacturers than before. Mandatory are: the V-angle of the cylinders (90 degrees) and the use of a maximum of two inlet and exhaust valves each (until now the rules have stated only the number of cylinders and a limit of five valves); an engine minimum weight of 95 kilograms; a maximum cylinder bore of 98 millimetres; the position of the engine's centre of gravity. Alloys for the manufacturing of engine components are also defined exactly. The biggest challenge for the engineers was and still is the vibrations which are completely different from the V10.

    Work on the new engine began in the autumn of 2004 when a team of engineers drew up the first concepts. The designing process lasted from Christmas to spring, a period during which the engineers also built one-cylinder models to test pistons, connecting rods and valve drives.

    The V8 engine will also significantly influence the design of the Team McLaren Mercedes MP4-21 for the 2006 season. The V8 is smaller than the V10 and the new engine also needs less air than before. Therefore there will be accordingly significant modifications to the aerodynamics for next year's car.

    Pedro de la Rosa: "The last two days of testing have gone well and we are on schedule with the development programme. There is obviously a big difference in power between the Mercedes-Benz V10 and the V8, and therefore I had to adjust my driving style. In between runs over the last couple of days, the engineers have been analysing the data and making changes to the car. It is positive that we were testing with the new engine without problems and long delays. During this test we have also been looking at the difference in vibration between the Mercedes-Benz V10 and V8 engines; however we didn't find anything we had not expected."

    Norbert Haug, Vice President Mercedes-Benz Motorsport: "We had an uneventful track debut with our new V8 engine. With Pedro de la Rosa at the wheel we gained first basic experiences with the new engine on a race circuit and we completed our programme as planned. The data we collected during over 400 test kilometres will be analysed at Mercedes-Benz in Brixworth and will help us to develop the engine further as planned. The première was OK and everything goes exactly according to the plan we have set for ourselves."

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    taken from:
    http://www.gizmag.com.au/go/4634/
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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! 306XT's Avatar
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    With that much restiction, the difference between manufacturer will be reliabilities of their engine as well as trying to make them bullet-proof under continuous high revs (20000rpm )

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    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    i can see a mc domination next year.. - chris
    ... ptui!

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    Fellow Frogger! 306XT's Avatar
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    Me too!
    Ferrari will continue to stuggle.
    I see button beating Ruben
    Renault will have very tough job
    Very testing time for Williams (very much like this year, but without the expectation)
    Midland will offically become the suckiess team of the pitlane
    Redbull & BMW will be the midfield runner
    Ralf finally winning a race for Toyota & Toyota fighting for the constructor Championship!

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    Fellow Frogger! Pate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 306XT
    Toyota fighting for the constructor Championship!
    Hope not! But with the biggest budget they have it is coming sooner or later
    That year will be called "the year when boring car was champion".
    Last edited by Pate; 23rd September 2005 at 05:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate
    Hope not! But with the biggest budget they have it is coming sooner or later
    That year will be called "the year when boring car was champion".
    Will be interesting to see the camerys, avalons, corollas and echos (yaris next year) have a sticker : "built with F1 technology" or "Inspired by F1 technology" !!!!!
    Last edited by J206GTI; 23rd September 2005 at 05:43 PM. Reason: wrong term used in message
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    bah - so why exactly does it look like next year will be a mc domination? I think in 1988 they had the only engine designed specifically for that years new rules... next year (almost?) every team will be running new engines - BMW and Toyota started track testing back in July and the Fez got their kit out back in August...

    Remember Mclaren will need an even more reliable engine than the others for Wreckinnen to even have a chance at the title

    interestingly in recent history - Jenson's Buttons departure from a team has preceeded a considerable improvement in performance. 1st for Williams and then for renault, so given that BAR were looking to step up to be serious contenders next year - but alas it will be more of a wait for Honda yet. But given all the whoohaa it's almost like he's been to Williams and left again (well contractually I guess he has) so maybe Williams will be on the money next year!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate
    Hope not! But with the biggest budget they have it is coming sooner or later
    That year will be called "the year when boring car was champion".
    Toyota NOT exciting? Tell me how many crashes Ralf have in the past few years! Maybe they can have
    "The safest car on earth, as tested by Formula Driver Ralf Schumacher"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 306XT
    Toyota NOT exciting? Tell me how many crashes Ralf have in the past few years! Maybe they can have
    "The safest car on earth, as tested by Formula Driver Ralf Schumacher"
    You are on the wrong forum pal. Your comment is strange.

    Safest cars are Renaults and that has been proofed by
    http://www.euroncap.com/content/safe...troduction.php and even Peugeots and Citroens are safer than cars made by worlds richest car maker toyota.

    If Ralf is no good driver in F1 or Michelin tyres didn't suit Indianapolis' high speed curve that doesn't make toyota any more exciting.

    There is so little toyota (or japanese stuff) on their toyota f1 car that you can't believe it.
    The team is german (based on the Cologne), team boss Howett is englishman, the engine has been designed by italian Luca Marmorini, the engine electronics are Magneti Marelli, technical director is Mike Gascoyne, they even has finnish race engineer and so on... but main thing is what that toyota f1 car represents ->

    booring!


    There could be a chance that toyota infects their boringness F1 racing:
    Ferrari Boss said "We have to be careful that we don't end up with the team that spends the most money being the team that wins everything. Then it's just a spending contest and not an engineering and driver contest. I wish them every success but I hope Toyota don't end up as the Chelsea of Formula One."

    Toyota, one aim! (Spend more money than anybody else to win in F1).


    Renault team manager Flavio Briatore said "I honestly don't want any bigger budget for Renault F1 team. I don't have any idea how to spend that extra money".
    Last edited by Pate; 25th September 2005 at 02:08 AM.

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    There is so little Italian stuff on a Ferrari F1 car that you can't believe it. The team boss is French, they've had ex-Honda staff work in their engine department. Their technical director Ross Brawn is English, their chief designer is South African Rory Byrne... they have a German and Brazillian driver and many of the engineering staff aren't even Italian.

    Oh.. and until Toyota came along they always had the biggest budget.

    Boring!!



    I can't believe... well actually I can believe... Ferrari having a whinge about Toyota spending too much money in F1

    Gee.. having your own private test track and being the only team to break the voluntary test day restriction must be a real heart-breaker for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug-a-lug
    There is so little Italian stuff on a Ferrari F1 car that you can't believe it. The team boss is French, they've had ex-Honda staff work in their engine department. Their technical director Ross Brawn is English, their chief designer is South African Rory Byrne... they have a German and Brazillian driver and many of the engineering staff aren't even Italian.

    Actually a lot of the staff at Ferrari are Italian. I did have a listing of the staff from 2003/4 (I buy the Italian magazine Autosprint from Italy) and there is a large percentage of Italians. It just so happens to be that the men higher up in the food chain are mostly non-Italians, so everyone has this misconception that it is no longer an Italian team. Similar story was with Prost in the latter years..



    I've seen some testing videos of de la Rosa with the new V8 engine. It's obviously noticeably a different sound but it sounded a bit better than what I had aniticipated.

    Still, the best sounding engine I've ever heard was the V12 Ferrari from 1995, screaming at 16krpm, it was fantastic.
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    Pug-a-lug, you are right about Ferrari but my main point was focused on toyota and toyota worshippers.

    My favourite team is Renault of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate
    and toyota worshippers.
    what are these? have they bought some?

    Ferrari are just a race team that also builds road cars so they have good reason to make exciting and intersting road cars...

    The rest of the F1 manufacturers are pretty boring - I am somewhat biased but I think the general population would credit Renault with at least being different.

    BMW and Mercedes - with the exception of the Msport stuff and the AMG goodies - also just taxi manufacturers (infact they possibly with even less varieties than the japanese makers - which I don't know if that is better or worse) You could give mercedes credit for the SLR but it's mostly a mclaren and beside to the average punter is looks like a big shiny sports car like a supra :O

    Honda's type R performance models add some flavour to their lineup.

    Toyota have done plenty of motorsport history that deserves respect - although it doesn't change the fact they do produce ALOT of very boring cars. At least they put in some effort in the MR2, Celica and Supras - and we could even mention the AE86 ( - maybe the most exciting boring car of all time! or is that the most boring exciting car ever?).

    F1 is a sport and a business and has almost nothing to do with building road cars - whether they are interesting or boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate
    You are on the wrong forum pal. Your comment is strange.

    Safest cars are Renaults and that has been proofed by
    http://www.euroncap.com/content/safe...troduction.php and even Peugeots and Citroens are safer than cars made by worlds richest car maker toyota.

    If Ralf is no good driver in F1 or Michelin tyres didn't suit Indianapolis' high speed curve that doesn't make toyota any more exciting.
    All I'm getting is that Ralf gets in unfortunate accidents (Huge write-offs) every once in awhile. Yet still gets out alright. Its suppose to be a joke Everyone know racing cars are completely different things to the cars we drive.

    But you have to admit he crashes alot, Melbourne 01 & 02, Monaco qualifying 05 just to name a few. Dont get me wrong I like the guy, but he arent worth what he's paid to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate
    and toyota worshippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy
    what are these? have they bought some?
    My thoughts exactly

    BTW I think you are being a bit harsh on the other manufacturers though. McLaren have built the finest road car that will ever be made. It is the sort of car Ferrari should be making, but they are too gutless, and stuck in their ways of fleecing millionaires for over-priced and under-performing cars that they don't have the imagination, creativity, or guts to take risks.

    Williams also made the fastest Renault Espace ever Wasn't it a mid-engined Espace with a detuned F1-engine?!?

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    Just something I've been thinking about the last few days...

    Renault could end up trumping everyone next season.

    They have been suppying V8 engines to the GP2 boys all year.

    The GP2's race on the same circuits in the same conditions as the F1 boys so Renault would have been recieving valuable feedback all year...

    The engine in the GP2 cars are a 600 hp 90 degree V8 and at some tracks have been within a few seconds of the F1 cars...

    They don't rev as high and are a bigger capacity, but they would probably make good research and development mules considering they are rebuilt (by Renault) every 5000k...

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    I noticed that you guys are talking about Toyota, Ferrari and etc has the biggest budget in the F1 competition. But, please be reminded when Peugeot re-entered the WRC competition, it also had the biggest budget out of all the manufacturers.

    And I also remembered once Peugeot and Renault had F1 stickers plastered to the back windows of their new cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug-a-lug
    BTW I think you are being a bit harsh on the other manufacturers though. McLaren have built the finest road car that will ever be made.
    Actually I do not consider Mclaren to be a "manufacturer" - they are a racing team like ferrari (or perhaps an engineering company) - I'd give BMW some credit for the McLaren F1's engine, and Mercedes for the SLR too. But I'm sticking with my opinion that the great majority of the stuff both of these make is boring! solid and well built but boring.

    Interesting info about renaults involvement in GP2 - I didn't know anything about these...

    It will be interesting to see how Peugeot go getting back into sports cars with all their motorsport money pulled from the WRC....

    I hope to see exciting and successful race cars in F1 and LMP-what-ever from Renault and Peugeot too!

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    I think Cosworth will be a suprise to most next year. Cosworth has the history of producing a great V8, but beyond that they have alot of recent experience in build high performance V8s for IRL (or is it CART? I always get them confused). They where the first to demonstrate their F1 V8 this year, going above 20,000RPM (and playing a nice marching tune after that), so they can only improve from there.

    So if Williams can actually produce a decent car, I think they will be up there, if not winning races, at least scoring constant podiums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BW205
    But, please be reminded when Peugeot re-entered the WRC competition, it also had the biggest budget out of all the manufacturers.
    Emphasize the word "had". Peugeot hasn't got biggest budget in 4-years.
    Well, actually not entirely true since Peugeot owns both makes: Peugeot and Citroen so from that point of view PSA has had biggest budget 5-years in a row, since year 2000. But biggest budget per car has been someone else last years...

    Maybe Ford... or even Subaru since it is almost one car team.
    Last edited by Pate; 29th September 2005 at 03:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Just something I've been thinking about the last few days...

    Renault could end up trumping everyone next season.

    They have been suppying V8 engines to the GP2 boys all year.

    The GP2's race on the same circuits in the same conditions as the F1 boys so Renault would have been recieving valuable feedback all year...

    The engine in the GP2 cars are a 600 hp 90 degree V8 and at some tracks have been within a few seconds of the F1 cars...

    They don't rev as high and are a bigger capacity, but they would probably make good research and development mules considering they are rebuilt (by Renault) every 5000k...

    A good point regarding GP2.

    However, the GP2 cars are around 10-15 seconds slower than F1 on almost every circuit.
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