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Thread: Improved Production Racing

  1. #26
    Fellow Frogger! Bluey's Avatar
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    I've been told by competitors in the class that if you can get an EG or EK civic to 1000kg, you are doing well.

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    Cam - I already got approval from the NSW category manager for the 205 to run 'early' class because the car was first sold, (albeit in Europe) pre-86.

  2. #27
    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    The Cox car was run over the scales and from memory was closer to 900kg than 1000kg. The AE86 was 825kg
    I have a 205 shell in the shed which may end up an IPRA build.
    I have been told I can only run as an early model as it was Group A homologated Pre-86.
    I have bought the Group A homologation docs as the local guys read it as Australian introduction date.
    Bathurst______2 57.22 Sandown______1 35.29
    Mallala_______1 22.90 Phillip Island___1 56.41
    Winton_______1.43.90 Collingrove______38.08
    Wakefield Park_1 09.46 (Parry's car)

    http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/frogstomp_racing

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Frogs...40210462834261

  3. #28
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    "I think theres also concessions for older cars (pre 87) to run a lighter weight. Our 87 race car 'may' slip into this rule when and if we get into IPRA."


    Is there? Can't see that in the ...

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  4. #29
    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    Early model has no lower weight limit.
    Late Model has a weight vs capacity table if you do an engine change
    Bathurst______2 57.22 Sandown______1 35.29
    Mallala_______1 22.90 Phillip Island___1 56.41
    Winton_______1.43.90 Collingrove______38.08
    Wakefield Park_1 09.46 (Parry's car)

    http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/frogstomp_racing

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Frogs...40210462834261

  5. #30
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Oh I read that as no lower weight limit for 3J, unless you change the engine, then all have a weight limit.

    So you could have an R10 with a modern engine and be as light as you dare?

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    So you could have an R10 with a modern engine and be as light as you dare?
    Yes, within the regs. There's a fair bit of restriction about which modern engine you could put in, which I haven't really looked into in depth, and there a fair amount you aren't allowed to remove like glass, some trims etc, but you can certainly get quite light.
    206 GTi 180 - Cat Cams, Remapped Group N ECU, AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg fixed camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Yokohama A050, PeugeotSport Baffled Sump, Powerflex Engine Mounts & Bushings, Setrab Oil cooler, Quaife diff, Velo seats.

    Sandown - 1:31.5
    Winton - 1:45.6
    Phillip Island - 1:58.4
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

    Previously, 2x 504 Wagon, 505 Wagon, 505 STi, 405.

  7. #32
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Well then, I'd say we nearly have a duty to stuff modern Clio engines into old things and scoot around at the back of a pack

    But regardless, you guys scooting around in that class, good on you!
    Last edited by bowie; 17th March 2017 at 12:01 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  8. #33
    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    So now Peugeot has bought Vauxhall I can put a Commodore 6L from the VXR8 into my 205?
    Bathurst______2 57.22 Sandown______1 35.29
    Mallala_______1 22.90 Phillip Island___1 56.41
    Winton_______1.43.90 Collingrove______38.08
    Wakefield Park_1 09.46 (Parry's car)

    http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/frogstomp_racing

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Frogs...40210462834261

  9. #34
    Fellow Frogger! Bluey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I have been told I can only run as an early model as it was Group A homologated Pre-86.
    I have bought the Group A homologation docs as the local guys read it as Australian introduction date.
    This is where running a particular make & model of car gets tricky in IPRA. You really need to get approval from the appropriate people to run a car. For example, it took a long time to for S15 Silvia's to be approved as they were already racing in Marque sports. Then there are cars like the XR6 turbo, which aren't allowed to run because their capacity calculation is over the 6L limit for the class (4L+turbo).

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    So now Peugeot has bought Vauxhall I can put a Commodore 6L from the VXR8 into my 205?
    No. You are not allowed to fit an engine with more cylinders than the maximum number the car came out with.

  11. #36
    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    Forgot that one. Got a mate that wants to put a Barra straight six in Mk3 Cortina which would comply.
    Bathurst______2 57.22 Sandown______1 35.29
    Mallala_______1 22.90 Phillip Island___1 56.41
    Winton_______1.43.90 Collingrove______38.08
    Wakefield Park_1 09.46 (Parry's car)

    http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/frogstomp_racing

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Frogs...40210462834261

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    Forgot that one. Got a mate that wants to put a Barra straight six in Mk3 Cortina which would comply.
    Would the front wheel ever remain in touch with the ground?

  13. #38
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    i am guessing it would be great on Conrod, and a bitch through The Dipper

  14. #39
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Whats a Barra? (ducks)

    But still reckon this class, and collection of cars is the.. fun..

    Right, I need $8k a year to spend on myself.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  15. #40
    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    Barra = XR6 Falcon engine naturally aspirated
    Bathurst______2 57.22 Sandown______1 35.29
    Mallala_______1 22.90 Phillip Island___1 56.41
    Winton_______1.43.90 Collingrove______38.08
    Wakefield Park_1 09.46 (Parry's car)

    http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/frogstomp_racing

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Frogs...40210462834261

  16. #41
    dvr
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    Rules and regulations for the class.

    http://docs.cams.com.au/Manual/Race/...-3J-2017-1.pdf

    I read that as no weight restriction for cars manufactured before 1986. But they are disadvantaged and must use narrower wheels with higher profile tyres than the post 1986 cars. Also smaller diameter rims so can't fit brakes as big as post '86.

    Finally they are restricted to 5 speed boxes whereas the post '86 can run 6 speed boxes if originally available.
    Last edited by dvr; 18th March 2017 at 04:15 PM.

  17. #42
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    That's only replacement boxes. If your pre 86 car had a 6sp you are fine. Not that I can think of a pre 86 car (that I can afford) with a 6sp.
    Last edited by bowie; 18th March 2017 at 08:20 PM.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #43
    Fellow Frogger! Bluey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvr View Post
    I read that as no weight restriction for cars manufactured before 1986. But they are disadvantaged and must use narrower wheels with higher profile tyres than the post 1986 cars. Also smaller diameter rims so can't fit brakes as big as post '86.
    Its only an issue if you choose to run a large car like a Falcon or Commodore. Everything in early model that is competitive weighs close to or less than 1000kg, i.e. Escorts, AE86, RX7, etc. So 225/50R15 is plenty for that weight and there is no tangible disadvantage. Same for the brakes. Plenty of calipers that provide competitve stopping power fit under a 15" rim.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Its only an issue if you choose to run a large car like a Falcon or Commodore. Everything in early model that is competitive weighs close to or less than 1000kg, i.e. Escorts, AE86, RX7, etc. So 225/50R15 is plenty for that weight and there is no tangible disadvantage. Same for the brakes. Plenty of calipers that provide competitve stopping power fit under a 15" rim.
    How do the rules deal with forced induction? That AE86 was turbocharged. Can you bolt a turbo on anything as long as its the same number of cylinders as factory?

    Kinda surprised no one has dumped a turbo LS V8 in a Torana...

  20. #45
    Fellow Frogger! Brett's Avatar
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    6 litre max engine size and turbo has a 1.6 multiplication factor to standard capacity
    Bathurst______2 57.22 Sandown______1 35.29
    Mallala_______1 22.90 Phillip Island___1 56.41
    Winton_______1.43.90 Collingrove______38.08
    Wakefield Park_1 09.46 (Parry's car)

    http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/frogstomp_racing

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Frogs...40210462834261

  21. #46
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Just build a Honda Civic K20/K24 and accept reality.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  22. #47
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Edit.

    Yep

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  23. #48
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    But fffff wining. Id wanna do this as cheaply as possible and win awards for being a tight arse.

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  24. #49
    dvr
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    Current Clio 1.6 turbo engine in an R8? Under 700kgs maybe? Max the boost to whatever you can get through the 36mm restrictor.

  25. #50
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    Stop trying to go fast everyone!

    -NA
    -1300~cc
    -Individual throttle body injection like a Volvo S40 Touring car so it like back fires all the time and things catch fire, Click
    -Enough compression
    -Cam that makes it sound like a Datsun 510 with P plates at the McDonalds drive through
    -In a dirty 8/10/12 what ever has that late 10, early 12 bell housing that takes the K4j

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

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