F1 - German round - Spolier
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Thread: F1 - German round - Spolier

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Default F1 - German round - Spolier

    Qualifying for the German GP, Silver arrows first row, Red Bull second row and Ferrari third row, looks like Ferrari are going to have to pull their sock up to remain number two team.

    1/ Rosberg - 1:14.363
    2/ Hamilton - 1:14.470
    3/ Ricciardo - 1:14,726
    4/ Verstappen - 1:14,834
    5/ Raikonen - 1:15.142
    6/ Vettel - 1:15.315
    7/ Hulkenberg
    8/ Bottas
    9/ Perez
    10/ Massa

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    The only real surprise was how Rosberg blew the start and let Hamilton run away with the race. Williams seems to be struggling for pace. Has Red Bull taken over from Ferrari as the number two team?

    Good work by Daniel to come strong 2nd. Two Red Bulls on the podium.

    1/ Hamilton
    2/ Ricciardo
    3/ Verstappen
    4/ Rosberg
    5/ Vettel
    6/ Raikkonen
    7/ Hulkenberg
    8/ Button
    9/ Bottas
    10/ Perez
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    if you go by the points they're definitely 2nd.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63-1092 View Post
    if you go by the points they're definitely 2nd.
    True, 14 point lead is a lead, but given that win is 25 points, 2nd 18 points and third is 15 points, the final position is still far from certain.
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    My response is a reply without evidence. Surely an opinion.
    I feel that the Red Bulls have moved the pendulum of momentum in their direction. Just slightly at the moment, but Ferrari have lost Allison who may return to Renault / Renault.
    Red Bull look happy as a team. No one refers to the face saving Tag-Heuer engine any more.
    It's now Renault who are being commended for the power improvement, (despite it being not enough).

    Oh, and well done Daniel for a good drive, Max too to let him through to max*points.






    *Did you see what I did there?

    Oh, never-mind

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    Red Bull have improved though I'm a little surprised that Renault haven't.
    Good to see the Honda getting better though I think for them it may be to little and not enough towards the end of season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    but Ferrari have lost Allison who may return to Renault / Renault.
    Red Bull look happy as a team.
    Allison's wife passed away earlier this year and he spent some time home after the tragedy. The reason for his departure was given as his desire to spend more time with his children. I am aware of the Renault/ Red Bull speculation, but if the reason for his departure (wanting to spend more time with children after wife's death) is genuine, then I can't see him involved in any form of F1 for some time, as F1 is not going to be a 9-5 job. Ferrari were keep to retain him in some type of consultancy role, which does not appear to have succeeded.

    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    No one refers to the face saving Tag-Heuer engine any more.
    It's now Renault who are being commended for the power improvement, (despite it being not enough).
    Good point, but at least their reliability seems to be up from last year. regardless of who achieved it.
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    I know what you're saying and for a few laps last night the yellow cars looked good and then fell back. They obviously don't "work" as well as the top end cars do for as long.
    The drivers at Renault are new and on a "J" curve. I think they need an experienced driver next year or next to push their progress. I don't think keeping both drivers would be the best option, nor can I see Kimmi going back there!
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    I would not place too much weight on this years Renaults as they were largely developed last years cash strapped Lotus team. I will be very interested to see how they will perform next year.

    Kimi's contract at Ferrari has been extended for next year so I cant see his at Renault either.

    The McLaren seems to be improving both in speed and reliability, slowly. Alsonso's commitment to McLaren could be influenced by the progress they continue/or not, to make for the rest of the year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    I would not place too much weight on this years Renaults as they were largely developed last years cash strapped Lotus team. I will be very interested to see how they will perform next year.....................
    I agree, Renault have said they weren't interested in throwing money onto the 2016 Lotus car and were putting all their effort into the 2017 (Renault) version.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    If Renault don't want to throw money at the Lotus car, who's throwing money at the engine that's powering the the improving Red Bull which is the same as Renaults unit, is it not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63-1092 View Post
    If Renault don't want to throw money at the Lotus car, who's throwing money at the engine that's powering the the improving Red Bull which is the same as Renaults unit, is it not?
    The Red Bull Chassis is the difference, Mon Ami. The Renault engine is totally similar. Perhaps if Renault called their identical engine a Tag Heur they would perform better? Renault will need to use all their expertise to have an ace chassis again for 2017, and to provide a power pack that is as good or better than anyone else's.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Renault are obliged by contract (performance contract) to keep evolving the engine. Next years motors will be very similar so any development is not lost. Thats how I understand it anyway?

    Apparently the Reb Bull, Tag, Aston Martin partnership has something to do with access to the Merc IP. Something to do with ownerships shares between the two/three companies.

    And yes, the Red Bull chassis is a lot better than the Reno! Plus the drivers IMO are a step up..
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63-1092 View Post
    If Renault don't want to throw money at the Lotus car, who's throwing money at the engine that's powering the the improving Red Bull which is the same as Renaults unit, is it not?
    It would appear that Renaults engines woes started turning around after they started working with Ilmor Engineering

    Red Bull was right; Ilmor a big step in helping Renault | Formula 1 Blog

    Ilmor is only involve on the internal combustion side of the engine, so it's probably only part of the answer.

    It would appear they run the same engines

    Renault adamant of Red Bull engine transparency - Speedcafe

    There was talk during 2015 that Red Bull were going to further develop the Renault engines in house, but I assume it did not happen as I cant find anything on the issue. If I recall, the talk was Red Bull were going to get Ilmor in on their project, but as Renault came on board with Ilmor, I assume it never went ahead



    If you think that is complicated, read this re history of Ilmor, as the original Ilmor was involved with the Mercedes engine success in the 1990's. :- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmor
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