2005 C5 2.2 HDi - Is it time to go

[Traev]

Hi guys - I'd appreciate any help or comments people are able to offer about my current cause for sleepless nights.

I've had my C5 a couple of years. It gave me a year of fantastic, trouble free motoring - but since then things have been going wrong on a regular basis and it's been costing money. It's been to three different mechanics and each one seems to have made the problems just a little worse. Repeated oil leaks, coolant leaks, new airflow meter, new thermostat housing - the car would get going again, but always seeming just a little bit rougher & a new problem would spring up a week or two later.

I was just in the process of getting a major oil leak (2 litres a week) from the rear crankshaft seal fixed when she overheated again. Got the "STOP" message from the computer. Topped up the coolant reservoir with about 6 litres of water. Next day it almost wouldn't start, ran very rough and blew smoke (or possibly steam) for 10k's before settling down. I got it into the mechanics who pressure tested and couldn't find a leak. I drove it home (20km's) and it was getting very hot. Checked the coolant & it needed another 6l or so.

Next day, it turned over but wouldn't start. Eventually, it stopped turning over at all (battery was fine).

Got it towed to a friend who was doing me a favour. He thought it would be a new head gasket and free up hydraulic lock of the pistons. Once he got the head off he told me it was seized and we'd need a new motor if the car was ever to cruise again.

So, I guess I have a few questions -

Should I try to get a new motor or cut my losses?
If I was getting a new motor, does anybody know where I could find a second hand one?
Is there any latitude for similar but different spec engines or does it need to be identical?
Does anybody out there have any use for an otherwise fairly good condition C5 ?

If you have any answers to questions I haven't asked but probably should have, feel free to stick your oar in too.

Thanks for taking the time to read & any assistance you can offer would be greatly appreciated

 

[David S]

Even if it wasn't seized, it's probably bent the rods after all that. There's a good chance it's been sipping on water for some time, so you might like to read this:
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/ci...ot-certain-looking-other-possible-causes.html
If you dismantle it further it could turn out to be repairable, but another complete engine of the same type (i.e. from a car with 4HX in the VIN) is the most pragmatic way to address the problem if you decide to repair it. It may be sensible to truck it to a mechanic with more specific knowledge of the model to get it back on the road and address the other problems that can arise with it. It's a good C5 model to own if a couple of likely problems are addressed.

 

[Traev]

Hi David - thanks for the reply. I haven't found any mechanics with specific knowledge near Coff's Harbour yet. The dealers in town certainly aren't the answer.....

It's pretty likely your suggestions in the other thread would be spot on - it's a shame I didn't land on that a week ago as I may have been able to rescue the situation. It certainly wasn't a clear cut head gasket - no water in the oil or oil in the water.

I'm not sure whether she's going to be worth repairing, even assuming I can find a mechanic with some specific knowledge. 8 years old, 185,000 km's - I think it's probably time to let go.

 

[David S]

It depends what you can justify, but the economics of the situation are not really favourable once these cars get to their current age and value. Parts are listed for it, but probably prohibitively expensive. One European vendor lists a set of 4 rods at about 500 Euro, but that's just the start. A set of 4 new pistons would be well over 1,000 Euro from the same source. If the bores and pistons are not damaged, then you might have some hope of a repair. It may even be possible to scavenge a couple of good rods from another damaged engine if that's where the damage turns out to be. However, if there is a lot of damage, then another known good engine is likely to be the best option.



Edit: A further thought. If you can turn it over with the head off, measure the distance from the top of each piston to the block surface. They should all be the same. A too low piston suggests a bent rod.

 

[Erikbm]

I would ditch it. I have a similar car, except it runs. At those kms no-one wants it and it is worth maybe $3k. If your really like the c5, then you can buy a lower km one for about $6k and for the $3k you might spend mucking around with a new engine you get a car that you can drive straight away and that has a good service record (hopefully) and will give you another 4 years of pleasure.

 

[Traev]

Thanks for the comments. Although the car's probably still just scrap metal in waiting, my friend has checked into the suggestions re the heat exchanger & that was definitely where the water was coming from. He reckons that it's just the number 2 rod that's bent & that there isn't any piston damage. He is reasonably confident that once that's been replaced it will run again.

When the original incident happened, my second worst case scenario was that the car was effectively scrap. My worst case scenario was that I spent a few thousand dollars on it & it was still scrap. Do you think the apparent extent of the damage justifies repair?

Does anybody have any ideas about where to source a 2nd hand replacement rod?

 

[Traev]

Forgot to ask - will I be able to use rods from and earlier/later engine, or does it have to be another 4HX?

I've found a replacement rod for about $150 on Ebay from Arcopiston - sounds pretty reasonable, but does anyone know if they are reasonable quality parts?

Hopefully I won't get into trouble if I post a link to the item - apologies if it's not the done thing here. I'll delete if required

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW...itroen|Model:C5&hash=item3f20215341#vi-ilComp

 

[David S]

It needs to be from a DW12TED4 engine as fitted to a car with 4HX in the VIN. The part number for the set of 4 rods is apparently not common with other engines. This may be worth considering:
PEUGEOT 2.2 HDi DW12TED4 USED CRANKSHAFT CON-ROD CONNECTING ROD | eBay
(Edit: I see you found new DW12 rods from the same vendor. You'd have to ask them if they suit, but you need exactly the same rod if replacing just one and not a set as supplied by the factory.)

You will need to find instructions on how to choose the head gasket (4 to choose from) as it will depend on the relationship to the block top face. The one in the engine now is probably safe and the number of holes in the end marks the thickness. Use a dial gauge and measure the piston crown relative to the block face at TDC for each piston. There will be a specification limiting the difference between pistons and specifying the range that is allowed for the set. If you ignore that, it may not run smoothly. You would also need to pay attention to ensuring the rod bearing suits any replacement rod as it will have been selected at the factory to suit the rod and crank being used. Perhaps, compare the bearing crush of the new and old rod?

The following document (about 8MB) will provide some information, particularly torque settings:
http://service.citroen.com/dtt/CDP/donnees/en_US/en_us_t3_2005.pdf

You should register at Citroën Service, where you can enter the VIN to find the parts for your car.

 

[jaahn]

Hi Traev,
A comment that may be relevant.
Your friend said the engine was siezed. You should look into this before spending money as that cylinder and piston may be ruined. The bore may be scored because the water was getting in or the bent rod may have caused scores. Check this first before proceeding.
Good luck Jaahn

 

[Traev]

Thanks for all that advice, it's been very helpful - I've bought the rod from Arcopiston off of Ebay, will post back when it arrives to let you know if it's any good. Interestingly, I couldn't find the part at all when I searched Ebay Australia, only when I went to Ebay UK, even though they post to Australia.

 

[doustk]

2.2 hdi

Martin Bray supplied 2 hand motor and new heat exchanger, apparently we are not the only sufferers. As new car ,so hope to resurrect, Martin is very good at finding bits to keep us following front wheels. On 0883836207 .doustk