The problem with Renault...
  • Help
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location
    Posts
    1,578

    Default The problem with Renault...

    ...is they're not differentiating themselves sufficiently. Instead of trying to muscle in on a market that's already cornered why not market themselves as a genuine alternative?

    Renault pushes the "we create cars" theme but I don't see anything creative there. They really need something revolutionary ala the R16 or "just plain practical" like the R12. Or something like the smart car would be welcome here. Was the Scenic supposed to fill that niche? OK maybe it does - but what else you got? Surely they're not putting their entire punchline on just one model? With all that advertising glitz comes a certain public expectation. Jo Blow expects a whole fleet to emerge with all these new smarts that truly differentiate them from the rest. But I don't see anything in their lineup that's really much different to what Peugeot/Citroen have on offer.

    Advertisement


    Toyota has had enormous success with their "oh what a feeling" campaign. That's got everything to do with emotion and bugger all to do with cars. "Sheer Driving Pleasure" is another one. Notice these taglines are not tied to a particular model or design.

    "We create cars" is a big claim - and in Oz the average guy doesn't buy it (literally!). Better to push the emotional shit on an undiscerning public methinks.

    Peugeot and Citroen will always do alright in this country because they have a loyal following and they're trusted brands. I think much of that is due in no small part to WRC successes - but don't discount little things like the Redex rerun - a marketer's dream!

    Just my two cents. I drive a R12 daily and I love it. I really want to see Renault succeed here.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! mi16_weapon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    croydon, sydney
    Posts
    295

    Default

    graham...

    i agree but i dont.

    i grew up with an r12 paddock basher in the family my second car was a funny little worked r12, followed by a 20. i loved em all!

    I believe renault make brilliant cars, and i for one think the new megane looks fantastic, i think its a beautiful car! Renaults' main problem is not itsa "tag" line. they do create cars, the rx4 scenic was something very different (for the time anyway), as is the new megane (in looks at least). The big problem is, that car technology is advancing so quickly at the moment, that even if you do something new and different, your competitors are copying and bettewring your idea in a couple of months time. Thats ok for brands like toyota and honde etc. because they have a large loyal following in australia, who eagerly await the next model. Renault does have a loyal following but its only small.. not enough to get them out on the streets and selling themselves.

    Nissan is a highly succesful manufacturer in oz. why arent renault pushing the fact that all the new nissans are also, in essence, renaults.

    if renault used the (ihate the thing but-) 350z as its hero car, they would sell a ton more cars.
    1992 mi16
    Toyota aware driver
    there are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots..

  3. #3
    Administrator
    mistareno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,926

    Default

    I think that Renaults main problem in Australia is supply.

    They release a new model in Europe, that recieves rave reviews and sells like hot cakes, but it then takes upto 18 months for that model to land over here.

    The Scenic is an obvious case.

    The Scenic was a pioneering model when it was released in Europe. It was a car that was without a direct competitor. This being the case, it had 2 years to build up market presence.

    By the time that vehicle arrived in Australia, within months we had the Mazda Premacy, Daewoo Tacuma (ripoff) and Holden Zafira all competing for the same market share.

    The same could be said for the Laguna II. If it had arrived in Australia within a few months of its Euro release, it would have been a new kid on an old block over here. Instead, due to the delay, it arrived within months of the Mazda 6 ( A car that Renault should be using as the premium price model in the Laguna segment IMHO)

    Clio is an old model that, due to marketing and reputation, continues to sell well in Europe, despite it's age.

    Unfortunately, in Australia, depite being at the pointy end of the mini field in most aspects, it is lost in a sea of cut-price competitors.

    Then there is the Nissan Australia problem. Do they really want to be competing directly in price with Renault? Do they want a $19,990 Megane Sedan in the showroom nextdoor? (BTW - It will be very interesting to see how the "renault style" Pulsar sells when it lobs here next year.)

    Perhaps they intend to establish Renault as the premium brand and keep Nissan as the Budget brand? If that is the case, I hardly see the 350Z as a vehicle produced by a budget manufacturer. I also dont see the value in selling a smallish hatchback like the Megane deep into Camry/Commodore/Falcon/Magna territory.

    I think the main problem Renault faces is a brand problem. I am a Renault nut, and could probably afford a Clio Sport, but I have nightmares of the 80's when Renault changed distributors several times and eventually pulled out all together, leaving owners of the then super expensive Renault 25/21 without dealer support and in possesion of a depreciating nightmare.

    Renault is going through a tough time in Australia at the moment. This was always going to happen. How they deal with it is going to be interesting.

    What would I do if I was at the wheel of Renault Australia?

    Pricing -
    I would establish (and market as such) pricing parity across the range with Holden or Toyota.
    Clio = Echo or Barina
    Kangoo = Barina Combo
    Megane = Corolla or Astra
    Laguna4 = Camry 4
    Laguna6 = Camry 6 or Vectra
    Renault is a bread and butter brand in Europe, why should that change overseas, the competitors are still the same.

    Marketing -

    More brand based advertising.
    Let Australia know that Renault is the biggest selling brand in Europe.

    Promote the fact that Renault has been behind many engineering advancements (turbochargers, seatbelts, F1 etc)

    Save money and use the Euro ads such as the Wallace and Grommit Kangoo ads.
    (the big butts add is a good start i suppose )

    The next year for Renault will be critical. Will the MeganeII be recieved well by the Australian Public? I think it will. Will they pay a starting price of $25,000 in a toughening economic climate? That remains to be seen.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! mi16_weapon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    croydon, sydney
    Posts
    295

    Default

    the thing i really dont understand, is why renault find it sooo hard to sell cars here, when honda, toyota, mazda, every bloody japanese carmaker, can market their cars as "euro styled" and even badge them as a euro (that new accord thing relly pi$$es me off!) and sell them on that!

    why dont reno use a tag line such as:

    "the original euro"

    or

    ""the real euro"

    or

    "the euro that u think is pretty funny looking right now, but in 2 years when all the jap cars look like this, ul think they look new and exciting"

    grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.



    Better yet, they could give me a new megane turbo, and ill make it my full time job to cruise around and sell them on the streets!!


    please??


    any renault reps out there??....
    1992 mi16
    Toyota aware driver
    there are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots..

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    4,778

    Default

    i think renault has come up with some pretty original vehicles as mentioned,..i like them....i had look at the new megane this morning (they r right across the road from work)....and the megane "seems" better built than the c3....seems like a fine car....renault should do well with it....

    I still believe that renaults main problem is the OLD reputation.....2 many people are scared to make such an investment without very strong reliability/service/etc
    backup.....ie...many still think they r 2 expensive to maintain...parts are costly...depriciation is poor.....etc....etc
    peugeot....which was never quite as adveterous as citroen and renault seems to
    be benefiting now because of its more conventional aproach (both design/engeeniring wise)....
    at work...when i get asked what i drive...i constantly have to battle with these types of attitude.....i usually try and tell them to at least consider taking one of the french marques for a drive...and find out what a real car feels like.....but response is usually..."i would...but they r expensive to service".....

    Best thing peugeot renault or citroen could do is to offer FREE drive days (yes i m serious)......throw in a mix of cars and let potential customers thrash them.....maybe throw in some free driver training (compoleteley obligation free) etc.....hell even if they dont sell any the word of mouth would do a lot more than some clio spinning on stage for 3 sceonds during the wheel of fortune......i wonder how much renault has spent on advertising and how much they ve actually made from cars sold in au.

    better still.....simply tape the grins after they get out of their cars...make a montage or maybe do paid editorial via a current affair......people seem to swallow everything this show dishes out....

    cheers
    dino

  6. #6
    Administrator
    mistareno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,926

    Default

    For those interested, here are UK prices for comparison

    UK Prices
    Small Hatch -
    Toyota Echo (Yaris)1.3VVTi 5 door GBP 10700
    Renault Clio 1.4 5 door GBP 9100 (almost $1000 cheaper)

    Medium Hatch -
    Toyota Corolla 1.8VVTL-i 5 door GBP 16000
    Renault MeganeII 2.016V 5 door GBP 13800 (more than $2000 cheaper)

    Large Saloon -
    Toyota Camry V6 (top of the range) GBP 26560
    Renault Laguna V6 Dynamique GBP 26200 (300 cheaper)


    Australia Prices
    Small Hatch -
    Toyota Echo 5 door $15990
    Renault Clio 5 door Expression $19990 (4000 more expensive)

    Medium Hatch -
    Toyota Corolla 1.8VVTi 5 door Ascent - $19990
    Renault Megane 1.6 base 5 door - $25990 (6000 more expensive)

    Large Saloon -

    Toyota Camry v6 Azura - $48990
    Renault Laguna v6 Priv LX - $57990 (9000 more expensive)

    Why is it that when Renaults are cheaper than an equivelent Toyota product overseas, there is a 20% mark up by the time they reach our shores?

    I realise that there is some added fruit in some models, but the Top of the Range Camry has everything including the kitchen sink in it (leather included) and your still getting a bigger car with the Camry (and Toyota's percieved reliabilty )

    If Renault is trying to get exclusivity as one of their brand traits, they're going the right way about it. I dont see a $31990 base 2.0L Holden Astra. The 2.0L Astra (also fully imported BTW) can be had for $20K flat from most dealers.

    Come on Renault, get serious, stop with the elevated price BS and give us a base 3 door Clio1.4 with air for under $15K and a base 5 door with air for $15990.
    And please explain to me why a Megane is suddenly 20% more expensive in Australia than a Corolla which is a more expensive car in the UK....

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Melbourne (or touring)
    Posts
    1,152

    Default

    Now, exactly WHERE was Japan relative to Australia (vs UK), and where is France relative to the UK (vs Australia) again

    This could explain some of the difference ...

    MY99 206 GTi
    Clio 1.4L auto

  8. #8
    Administrator
    mistareno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,926

    Default

    Just to completely blow your theory out of the water, 3 and 5 door Yaris models sold in the UK and Europe are manufactured in.....drum roll please ..................... FRANCE

    Their Corollas are built in the UK (I think ours are too from memory)

  9. #9
    XTC
    XTC is offline
    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    8,566

    Default

    I think they (Renault) make some really unique models .. Megane II, Clio, Scenic, Laguna .. nothing looks quite like them. Everyone i've talked to don't like the fact there is 1 dealer here (WA) ... and they are well know for charging like a wounded bull. Pick a Toyota, Ford, or Holden, not only do you have the choice of dozens of dealers, you also have many alternatives for servicing (eg.. Automasters, Repco, etc) and there is a much wider choice of non-genuine spare parts.

    TCO = Total Cost of Ownership, is just as important as the purchase price, and when it comes to resale - everyone is happy to buy a secondhand Corrolla cause they know what they are getting into (hell I got $2100 for an average maintained, 1.8ltr 1988 Camry, manual, no electrics, manual steering and 250,000kms on the clock).

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  10. #10
    XTC
    XTC is offline
    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    8,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Their Corollas are built in the UK (I think ours are too from memory)
    Wasn't it South Africa for our Corolla's

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  11. #11
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,876

    Default

    The only Corolla i know of being made in South Africa is the 141kw Sportivo!

    Cya Stalled
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

    2004 Citroen C3 1.4 80th Anniversary (RIP)

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    371

    Default Overpriced Renaults in Austalia

    Come on Renault, get serious, stop with the elevated price BS
    ________________________

    This overpricing of Renaults in Australia has been going on for over 40 years now & sadly these days you have to be pretty brave to spend your own cash to buy a new one.

    I have a mate who worked for Renault Australia as an Accountant in the early 1970s. (In those glory days of Bob Watson's rally wins and the R12 being car-of-the year). Renault Australia was not a franchise but a subsiduary of Renault Fr.
    When they 'purchased' the car-kits from the parent company for local assembly they paid sustantially more for them than you would pay if you had walked in and bought them out of a showroom in Paris!! Money was siphoned out of Australia to R. at a very greedy rate, and perhaps that attitude persists.

    As an odd comparison Peugeot seemed to price their 404 ($2000) & early 504's ($3000) very well in Oz and built substantial brand loyalty which has lasted up to now. This was odd because our local Pugs were also assembled & sold by Renault Australa.

    Anyway - with RA dicking around with prices, it was bound to turn to sh1t.
    They gave up and went home and R. as a brand hasn't recovered here yet!
    ( Pity, I used to love to see those R17 gordinis being thrashed by the Renault execs on there way to work/home or girlfriends whatever!!)

    PS: I has a brialliant R12 for a few years - only bits that broke were the 'local content' crap that was made in Australia
    So many projects - so little time.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Yarrabilba, Queensland
    Posts
    2,760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mi16_weapon
    the thing i really dont understand, is why renault find it sooo hard to sell cars here, when honda, toyota, mazda, every bloody japanese carmaker, can market their cars as "euro styled" and even badge them as a euro (that new accord thing relly pi$$es me off!) and sell them on that!

    why dont reno use a tag line such as:

    "the original euro"

    or

    ""the real euro"

    or

    "the euro that u think is pretty funny looking right now, but in 2 years when all the jap cars look like this, ul think they look new and exciting"

    grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.



    Better yet, they could give me a new megane turbo, and ill make it my full time job to cruise around and sell them on the streets!!


    please??


    any renault reps out there??....
    I agree 110%
    As hashappened pften in the past, a Euro brand sets the bench mark only to have their thunder stolen by a Jap or other asian brand. Take the Espace/Tarago market. Toyota would have all the world believe they invented the people mover!! Yes after Renault built the Espace.

    What they do and where they go will depend on how they market their product. May-be they need to get out on the street and find out what is lacking in todays cars apart from originality(they have that sewn up at Renault....at least the Megane looks like a Renault should. Not like a 307/Corolla clone like most of the market)
    If they can find something that is lacking and may-be create an advert around their answer to that!

    Good Luck Renault

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! jfn180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    725

    Default

    well i work for a big dealer ship in sydney and we do sell renaults ,they said that they are up from last yrs salles by about 35% they are selling alot of clio`s and clio sports


    just a bit of the topic, i was talk to one of the renault salle guys at my work today and they said that the V6 clio sport may not be cameing to australia,
    97`black 306 style sold JFN 306
    04 Black 206 GTI 180 JFN 180 FOR SALE
    I HATE V8 LANDCRUISERS


    WEST TIGERS= PREMIERS 05

  15. #15
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,876

    Default

    It would be nice to see the Clio V6 in Australia but realistically how many of them would be sold? It would be a nice flagship/hero model tho!

    Cya Stalled
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

    2004 Citroen C3 1.4 80th Anniversary (RIP)

  16. #16
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    14

    Default

    The biggest problem is THEIR dealers. We recently went shopping for a new Megane to go along side the Clio sport, and the way we were treated by the dealer sales drone has put me off from buying one here in Canberra. (Shame, as their service guys n gals are pretty good).. Its like the dealers dont give a flying f**k about you as a potential new renault car buyer.. I mean, the sales person couldnt even say renault properly

  17. #17
    Member 205NFI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Mount Gambier
    Posts
    43

    Default

    need a new age renault 5 Turbo!! that would be nutso ^_^
    (purplepugWA)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •