Historic Registration South Australia - Change in Age Eligibility
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Default Historic Registration South Australia - Change in Age Eligibility

    Hi Froggers, especially those in SA,

    Not sure if this has already been discussed on AF or not so here it is.

    As of 1st July 2012, the age eligibility for historic registration is being frozen to cars being manufactured before 1st January 1979 rather then the existing 30 year rolling date arrangement.

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    See the following link and look for regulation changes:

    http://www.sa.gov.au/subject/Transpo...drive+vehicles

    It looks like there is a small window of opportunity to get cars manufactured up to 1982 onto the scheme if you convert to historic registration before 1st July this year.

    This means that you will never be able to get a Citroen BX or anything newer on historic rego in SA until the regulations are changed. I think this will have a big impact on the younger members of our forum. I know that not all change is bad but I hope this doesn't spread to any other State of Australia. My sons have some BX 16 Valves which they would like to get on historic rego at some stage.

    Regards,

    Ken W

  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    that's the biggest load of utter sh!t I've heard in a long time I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this. There basically saying the cars I grew up wtih can never be considered as historic.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    there are people i know that have been pushing for that rule for at least 10 years in this state
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    Oh dear. Stupidity and old-fartism has taken hold in SA.
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Default Any response from Froggers South Australia

    I would like to know if this information has got to any Froggers from South Australia.

    Can South Australians please post a response?

    Is this already well known in SA?

    Can Froggers who know members in SA please PM them with this thread. They only have this window of opportunity for 1979-82 cars until the end of this month!

    Cheers,

    Ken W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    I would like to know if this information has got to any Froggers from South Australia.

    Can South Australians please post a response?

    Is this already well known in SA?

    Can Froggers who know members in SA please PM them with this thread. They only have this window of opportunity for 1979-82 cars until the end of this month!

    Cheers,

    Ken W
    I didn't know about it until your post yesterday. Thanks. I need to move fast to get my 504 in. $139 is a lot better than $686!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken W View Post
    I would like to know if this information has got to any Froggers from South Australia.

    Can South Australians please post a response?

    Is this already well known in SA?

    Can Froggers who know members in SA please PM them with this thread. They only have this window of opportunity for 1979-82 cars until the end of this month!

    Cheers,

    Ken W
    You must not belong to a worthwhile car club, cobber ... I've been aware of it for at least two or even more months.
    And BTW .. I just happen wholeheartedly go along with the proposed change(s) to the legislation.
    Yes, that's not necessarily what you & others might agree with, but then you're equally entitled to your own (and opposing) view to mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by petitepoupée View Post
    You must not belong to a worthwhile car club, cobber ... I've been aware of it for at least two or even more months.
    And BTW .. I just happen wholeheartedly go along with the proposed change(s) to the legislation.
    Yes, that's not necessarily what you & others might agree with, but then you're equally entitled to your own (and opposing) view to mine.
    I m curious... WHY?

    I oppose it because there are plenty of great cars that deserve the chance to become eligible in the future... What is your reasoning for supporting the proposed changes... genuinely curious regarding your reasoning...



    dino

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    Quote Originally Posted by petitepoupée View Post
    You must not belong to a worthwhile car club, cobber ... I've been aware of it for at least two or even more months.
    And BTW .. I just happen wholeheartedly go along with the proposed change(s) to the legislation.
    Yes, that's not necessarily what you & others might agree with, but then you're equally entitled to your own (and opposing) view to mine.
    If you'd checked Ken's location, you'd see he's in QLD, so whatever 'worthwhile' club he might belong to probably isn't as concerned about what's going on in SA as the people who made you aware of this. I thought it was good of him to raise it, given it's not an issue currently affecting him directly. Has anyone from SA, with earlier knowledge, raised it?

    As Dino asks, on what basis do you support the changes? It seems easy to be smugly supportive when something will not affect you as an owner of pre-war cars. Is the SA scheme one where you can use a car for 90 days on the plates? Or is it like NSW, where the club scheme allows conditional rego and use primarily at club events. If it's the 90 day system, then it's possibly an attempt to stop people abusing the system with cars built up to 30 years old that are almost as capable as many current models. I could see that as one argument. If it's like the NSW system, then the rolling 30 year rule has merit as it's less able to be abused within legal use.
    Last edited by David S; 4th June 2012 at 11:02 PM.

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    slightly on topic but as i sit in my shop on the newell i have seen increased numbers of older cars since the vic system was put into place

    now these are not single cars, these are convoys of cars enjoying the 45/90 day system

    people seem to be more in tune with their older cars and with the new system it seems that more cars are turning up to club events or there are more events being held due to people feeling safe knowing that their cars are going to be reliable as they are able to use them more often

    now isn't this a good thing and isn't this what car clubs are all about

    getting a little tired of the 'old' crowd staying in their ruts
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petitepoupée View Post
    You must not belong to a worthwhile car club, cobber ... I've been aware of it for at least two or even more months.
    And BTW .. I just happen wholeheartedly go along with the proposed change(s) to the legislation.
    Yes, that's not necessarily what you & others might agree with, but then you're equally entitled to your own (and opposing) view to mine.
    So what your saying is you believe this car ...



    My mothers 2cv should never be considered a classic, so never be eligible for club registration.



    And my stinky old CX that I've recently moved from full rego to a club permit recently should never be consider a "classic" worthy of being allowed on a club permit either

    I'd love to hear why a Citroen 2cv and Citroen CX can't be considered historic or classic and allowed access to classic registration permits

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    Shane L.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    So what your saying is you believe this car ...



    My mothers 2cv should never be considered a classic, so never be eligible for club registration.



    And my stinky old CX that I've recently moved from full rego to a club permit recently should never be consider a "classic" worthy of being allowed on a club permit either

    I'd love to hear why a Citroen 2cv and Citroen CX can't be considered historic or classic and allowed access to classic registration permits

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    And not just your cars Shane but 205 GTi's will also never become a classic
    Lets hope our pollys aren't as stupid as the old farts in S.A. Its a sure way to kill the old car enthusiasm and kill car clubs completely because 1979 was a long time ago and as these cars get older rust sets in, parts become harder to get and people (unless dedicated) give up.

    Clubs are struggling enough these days without idiot non car people making the rules.

    I heard one of the arguments against 90 days here in Vic was that people can have 4 old cars and therefore not register any. The club responce was so what we can only drive one at a time.
    David Cavanagh

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I just used those cars as examples. I think there trying to stop old falcons and commadores being stuck onto club rego as there "not classic".

    My points null and void either way. My generation grey up in those cars, why the hell shoudln't someone be allowed to put for example and old VB comadore onto a club permit if they wanted one ( most likely as they grew up being driven around in one).

    The club permit scheme in Victoria has transformed the "old car" scene. It's absolutely brilliant, the vast array of old cars you see plodding around the streets even here over the last few months is amazing A lot of which are club permit cars.

    One of the guys in the local martial arts was excitedly telling me about the car club they started a few weeks ago. His already put his old Camaro on it, not only did it only cost him only $66 to move it from full rego over to a club permit, they have just setup a member as the safety officer so you don't have the hasstles of Roadworthies (before everyone cries "that shouldn't be allowed" .... you should see the bloody car, it's better than when it left the showroom .... value is about $60,000 ). I told him to go read the ferral car clubs website a few months back. I guess he must have

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    I'm pleased to see the word classic being used within apostrophes.
    It underlines the seat of the issue, as one man's (or in the case of David, his mum's 19?? 2CV) "classic" is not another's.
    So you have to consider: should historic rego eligibility be via age alone? or by "merit". It's a minefield.
    Discussion on the changes here in SA has been going on for something like 12 months or more, and each accredited car club had a representative involved via the Federation of Historic Car Clubs. These are clubs entitled to issue log books (90 day) within their own club. Feed back was to the members at monthly meetings, and I'm surprised none of it had filtered up to Qld (apologies to KenW for overlooking his location).
    So at least 2 months ago I was aware of the final decision.
    Why do I accept it? Any one of us could make up a list of bog-boring 30 year old 1982 vehicles about which little merit other than age alone exists. Make up your own such list.
    And do be wary of having your own agenda$ creep into what you would or wouldn't allow.
    Our '89 2CV isn't, and won't be, eligible but I'm happy enough to live with that - I'm hardly going to rush out and swap it for an '82 model just so I can save on rego.

    The logbook/90 day system here is still open to abuse: a workmate of mine working 2 weeks on/2 weeks off (with annual leave we were in town a bit over 6 months) had a pair of log booked Humber Super Snipes which of course gave him wheels for the time down south. Not at all in the spirit of what historic rego should be about, but again, that's my opinion. If you want the system to stay with the 30 year cutoff forever and have "old" cars visible on the roads then that's your prerogative entirely. Just let me have mine.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petitepoupée View Post
    The logbook/90 day system here is still open to abuse: a workmate of mine working 2 weeks on/2 weeks off (with annual leave we were in town a bit over 6 months) had a pair of log booked Humber Super Snipes which of course gave him wheels for the time down south. Not at all in the spirit of what historic rego should be about, but again, that's my opinion. If you want the system to stay with the 30 year cutoff forever and have "old" cars visible on the roads then that's your prerogative entirely. Just let me have mine.
    This is the perfect use for a car on limited use registration. How could you possibly consider that rorting the system. You'd rather him have to fully register them so they can be driven a few days a year Yes I know, those old humbers should be rotting away in someones back yard with grass growing through them like most of the "less popular" cars have for the last 50years.....

    As far as I'm aware, it was the Victorian goverment that approached the clubs wanting to change the system (not the other way around). The idea is to get the vintage car fleet back on the road. Guess what, there acheiving there aims with great sucess.

    Why is everyone so scared people are "allowed to drive" there cars. I can't believe what narrow minded fools there are around. If he comes down and drives his cars 90days straight, then heads off north for the rest of the year. Good luck to him He gets to enjoy driving his cars without narrow minded bigots telling him he should only be allowed to drive them to "club gatherings" so all the other narrow minded bigots can try and control the usage of his car.

    Or are you trying to say a humber snipe isn't a classic car? Or they should only be allowed to be driven to club events. As obviously someone that owns a pair of 50+year old cars isn't a car person. There just trying to take advantage of the scheme to save a few dollars

    I'm certain none of these rules have anything to do with the cars, it's the few narrow minded control freaks among the clubs trying to "have power" over the other members.

    This is what I call a car club.... They sound like they have a bloody ball Narrow minded bigots are simply refused membership

    http://feralsportscarclub.net/CarClub.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by petitepoupée View Post
    Any one of us could make up a list of bog-boring 30 year old 1982 vehicles about which little merit other than age alone exists.
    Yes, but how many owners of such vehicles would be member of a car club and only be willing to drive it for club events or 90 days a year?

    You are confusing plain 'old' cars with those owned by club members who are enthusiasts and may have spent years restoring their cars and are only intending to use the vehicle sparingly.

    I think the rolling 30 year idea was easily the fairest scheme.

    There will always be those that abuse things. Get given an inch Take a Mile. It is an unfortunate part of some humans nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    Yes, but how many owners of such vehicles would be member of a car club and only be willing to drive it for club events or 90 days a year?

    You are confusing plain 'old' cars with those owned by club members who are enthusiasts and may have spent years restoring their cars and are only intending to use the vehicle sparingly.

    I think the rolling 30 year idea was easily the fairest scheme.

    There will always be those that abuse things. Get given an inch Take a Mile. It is an unfortunate part of some humans nature.
    As for the rorting bit .... The guy that started the club said to me "We can just fill in the month/year and keep the book on the seat beside us and fill in just the day if we get pulled over".

    He looked at me strangley when I laughed at him. I said "You'll end up with 2 entries in your log book for the entire year" Everyone I know who has gone onto the permit system since the new scheme has come in has found they don't need 90days..... 45 is far more than they needed. Everyone overestimated massively how often the car was driven. My car that's on a club permit is treated as a "second car". 6months down the track and I'll be buggered if even 20days of the log book are used. No I haven't rorted the system. I fill the book in like clockwork. It's just amazing how little these cars get driven. Sure it's not being driven to a club event everytime it's being used, but gee's I enjoy driving it everytime I hook the battery up and back it out of the shed. You have a bloody ball and realise so quickly how sh!t modern cars are in comparison to it.

    If you dont' use the car daily to drive to work, it simply doesn't get driven very often. In my case it's starting to look like 45days will do me for the entire year... I won't even need 90

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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  18. #18
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    If you look at English EBay for example, the pretty much set in concrete 1988 deadline for importing cars versus the old 15 year old rule has really cut Australian motoring enthusiasts off from some interesting 1990s vehicles. Even some mouthwatering later model CXs and XMs are pretty much off limits unless a personal import.

    Without making it a life's work I can't say I've seen many if any "bombs" on club plates. Most of what I've seen are very nice looking cars. Fingers crossed this SA idea does not gain currency elsewhere. When babyboomers all finally retire driving cars we're associated with and activities with other enthusiasts are going to be a part of the retirement plan. Having old cars sitting around not being driven doesn't make a lot of sense. If they're anything like their more modern cousins (my Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo for example), leave cars sitting for a month or two and a whole lot of symptoms present themselves. Noisy lifters where the oil has drained, flat batteries, etc.

    About to go onto club plates with our GS. With Vic you can get an initial 45 days then buy a second lot of 45 days if you need them. I'd be inclined just to buy 90. But as you can do 45 + 45 will do it that way.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by J'aime la vie View Post
    If you look at English EBay for example, the pretty much set in concrete 1988 deadline for importing cars versus the old 15 year old rule has really cut Australian motoring enthusiasts off from some interesting 1990s vehicles. Even some mouthwatering later model CXs and XMs are pretty much off limits unless a personal import.

    Without making it a life's work I can't say I've seen many if any "bombs" on club plates. Most of what I've seen are very nice looking cars. Fingers crossed this SA idea does not gain currency elsewhere. When babyboomers all finally retire driving cars we're associated with and activities with other enthusiasts are going to be a part of the retirement plan. Having old cars sitting around not being driven doesn't make a lot of sense. If they're anything like their more modern cousins (my Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo for example), leave cars sitting for a month or two and a whole lot of symptoms present themselves. Noisy lifters where the oil has drained, flat batteries, etc.

    About to go onto club plates with our GS. With Vic you can get an initial 45 days then buy a second lot of 45 days if you need them. I'd be inclined just to buy 90. But as you can do 45 + 45 will do it that way.

    John
    If you go 90days and find you only use for example 20days in the first year. Your renewal will automatically be issued as the full 90days. If you start with 45, then pay another 45 if required your automated renewel issued will be for the lesser fee

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    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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    I don't recall actually stating that, in my opinion, a mid-60's Snipe was not a classic?
    But I believe I did try to make the point that a "classic" can be anything, as long as it is seen as such by the proud owner.
    The above Snipe driver/owner, BTW had perforce to belong to a club in order to get his logbooks issued, but his only reason for having the two cars was to save on rego & insurance.
    That is not as I see it - (and you do not have to agree with this - as I have already pointed out) - in the spirit of the reason for the introduction of the logbook system in SA.
    Prior to that we had to purchase permits, which was a quite expensive process for a vehicle which might only be driven on the road for less than 10 or 15 days each year.

    Do I here detect some of the younger folk acting a little - er - reactionary?
    I thought it was only the old farts who resisted change.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petitepoupée View Post
    I don't recall actually stating that, in my opinion, a mid-60's Snipe was not a classic?
    But I believe I did try to make the point that a "classic" can be anything, as long as it is seen as such by the proud owner.
    The above Snipe driver/owner, BTW had perforce to belong to a club in order to get his logbooks issued, but his only reason for having the two cars was to save on rego & insurance.
    That is not as I see it - (and you do not have to agree with this - as I have already pointed out) - in the spirit of the reason for the introduction of the logbook system in SA.
    Prior to that we had to purchase permits, which was a quite expensive process for a vehicle which might only be driven on the road for less than 10 or 15 days each year.

    Do I here detect some of the younger folk acting a little - er - reactionary?
    I thought it was only the old farts who resisted change.
    Interesting, I don't see how paying the upkeep and running cost on two cars would be cheaper than fully registering one. The registration will be cheaper by far, the insurance will be pretty much doubled. Plus the upkeep of two old cars that are difficult to find parts for.

    I'd be happy to have four cars registered on club rego and not even run a modern car (my wife woudn't ). It's not going to save money though over one fully registered car. It will mean you spend your life repairing and fixing broken cars though

    seeya,
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  22. #22
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    Thanks Shane. Club permit application has gone off for 45 days. Thanks for the tip!

  23. #23
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    I agree entirely with you Shane!
    I wish we had your system down here.
    Closest we have is Special Interest rego which is just under $300 a year with a 52 day logbook.
    Also you must have a fully registered car in your name before you can qualify for SI.
    I'd almost move to Vic fr your system...nothing would make me happier than being allowed to have cheap limited use reg on 7 or 8 classics and drive a different one each day!
    As it is I have the cars but only a couple registered at a time because I can't afford it.
    Pugs Rule!

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  24. #24
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugnut403 View Post
    As it is I have the cars but only a couple registered at a time because I can't afford it.
    no one can

    i know the blokes i talk to in town here (who are part of the old crowd) say that if you want to use the car whenever you want just register it

    these blokes though are all self funded retirees with nice bank accounts so don't really need to worry

    they are also the old crowd that really believe that anything after 1960 is not worth club rego as it may have too much plastic in it or is far too modern

    this must be what petitepoupée is talking about as being stubborn to change
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  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! petitepoupée's Avatar
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    Don't know how I can get this through, but I'll have one more go.
    The issue of what constitutes a "classic" car is utterly subjective. It depends on the view (read - opinion) of the individual.
    What a "historic" car is is another issue: if you want to call a cut-of date of 30 years for conditional rego fine, but it's just something else which is entirely arbitrary. 30, 40, 20 ... who gives a toss?

    For the record here, convention has it that veteran is up to the end of 1918, vintage is from there to the end of 1930 ... after that we begin the rubbery stuff with "post vintage & thoroughbred" which some take to be to the end of '45 (don't ask me why) but which also tends to involve toffy pommie cars such as Lagondas, etc. (read $$$ & snob value).
    And when we come to "classic" - well ... goodnight all. It's past my old fart's bed time.

    1974 D Special, 2015 Fiat Panda Twinair turbo 85hp (), 2011 VW biturbo camper.

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