New P- plate rules
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    Default New P- plate rules

    I am very annoyed at the new vic P - plate drivers rules that were introduced on dec 1, for those unaware P platers like me will now only have 5 demerit points. This means loss of license after two traffic infringements, and that includes a $300 fine and loss of 3 demerit points for P plates not be displayed correctly, do this twice and for that stupid "offence" you have lost your license- some people will be p platers for a long time I'd say.

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    Fellow Frogger! seesully's Avatar
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    This is not true. I think that you might have misread or have been fed incorrect information.

    If you hold a learner permit or probationary licence and get five or more demerit points in a twelve month period you may lose your licence or permit. If you hold a full driver licence and get twelve or more demerit points over a three year period, you may lose your licence.

    So in a nutshell, you have twelve points on your licence, but if you stuff up and lose 5 of those in any twelve month period while being on your 'P's', kiss it goodbye for a while.
    Losing 3 points and a $300 fine for not displaying you P plates is not a new thing either. That was the rule back when I got my licence 11 years ago.

    Sorry to say that they are the rules and we can't do anything about it. Just don't do anything stupid and you won't have to worry about losing any points off your licence!

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    unless they have changed the rules here in NSW provisional holders can only loose 2 points and they say bye bye
    which i think is great
    only thing is they never seem to catch any of the idiots when they are doing something to endanger the lives of others on the road
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    Fellow Frogger! seesully's Avatar
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    Not having a go at you at all Dave, but PugRambo is right...I've seen some amazingly stupid things done in cars controlled by P Platers.

    Just remember that the laws are there to help save the lives of all of these teenagers out on the roads with deadly weapons in their control, not to upset them all about the prospect of losing their licence!
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! dave from bendigo's Avatar
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    Thanx for the comments, I understand what you are all saying, but I also believe that there should be new rules set for p platers regarding vehicle power. I know there are rules regarding engine size, but seriously what does that mean, and turbo four these days will outrun an old big eight, and I see plenty of p platers driving (often very dangerously) around in skyline gtst's, turbo silvias, Gtir pulsars etc. I know of one p plate driver near me with a Gtir running 3 second 0-100 times, this is the sort of thing that should not be allowed. There should be new power to weight ratio rules brough in for p platers instead of just engine capacity.

    cheers, Dave
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! seesully's Avatar
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    I agree 100%

    Those japanese rockets are out of control! I have no idea how a teenager with all of a few months driving experience can controll one of those things, let alone afford to insure them!

    I agree that the rules need to be changed. Perhaps we should campaign for all new drivers to not have a choice in what they drive abd be put into one of the greatest tanks of all time, a 504.
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Dr. 306's Avatar
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    You have P plates for a reason! You should dispay them and not complain about them. It gives others on the road a chance to avoid the unexpected.
    '99 306 XSi Black Metallic

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    I know of one p plate driver near me with a Gtir running 3 second 0-100 times,
    Got 400hp+ does it? Otherwise, I'd say he's having you on.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey
    Got 400hp+ does it? Otherwise, I'd say he's having you on.
    and here in lies the all time killer of our teenagers on the roads
    those that tell a story about what their car can do and some one goes and tries to top it, instead they top themselves, and maybe someone else along the way
    peer pressure it's great isn't it
    or should we call it mine is better than yours see if you can beat it ????
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  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. 306
    You have P plates for a reason! You should dispay them and not complain about them. It gives others on the road a chance to avoid the unexpected.
    Don't you remember when you used to have P's ?? If only the bloody things would stay in the windows, and not drop off all the time !!!!

    Mine used to fall off all the time, I'd have been seriously p!$$ed if I'd been booked for it

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    Dave

    The correct regulations for NSW P platers are at

    http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/index.html

    As you will see in NSW P1s (red) can only accumulate 3 demerit points

    P2s can only accumulate 6 demerit points.

    Remember too that all drivers who have done the right thing (or not been caught doing the wrong thing) have ZERO points. It is only when you are pinged that you accrue demerit points. Therefore a NSW P2 can only accrue 6 demerit points at a time maximum.

    My stepson lost his licence for three months some years ago now because he:

    a/ Did a U turn over double lines around the corner from the cop shop (DUH!!) 2 points
    b/Wrote off Deb's Telstar and got a neg drive charge. 3 points.

    Total 5 and (at that time) NSW P platers could only go four points.

    Once again, as others are already stating, don't break the rules and you won't get into trouble. If I exceed the speed limit and I get nabbed, well it's my own fault.

    Mind you, I would love to be able to be a cop for a week or at least take pics and email them in - like the people who do u turns over double lines in a school zone, or talk on a mobile while speeding in the rain down a freeway while displaying P plates on their Hyundaecrapboxshitheap.

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  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Well last night I was driving home and passed a 'P' plater doing 45km/h in a 70zone. I could see the phone in his hand lit up as he was staring at the screen. Next roundabout I'm not stopped but rolling slowly though it (as I had to giveway). Tires lock up behind me and he skids to a halt mm's off my towbar....

    Tell you what, it requires no imagination to realise where I would've shoved that phone if he'd bent my car Cops be buggered, after you've shoved the phone "where the sun don't shine", and beaten some sense into them, then you take there license number & hope like hell there insured

    There's no doubt in my mind, the d!ckhead was sending text messages. There is NO WAY ANYONE can possibly safely send text messages while driving, I don't car how much you try to convince me otherwise

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Don't you remember when you used to have P's ?? If only the bloody things would stay in the windows, and not drop off all the time !!!!

    Mine used to fall off all the time, I'd have been seriously p!$$ed if I'd been booked for it

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    mine never fell off once
    they only "fell" off when i wanted them to
    never got nabbed for it though as i tended to leave one on somewhere
    when i had mine they weren't allowed to be in the windows, they had to be on the outside of the car as close to the number plate as possible
    i used to just wedge mine in behind the plates
    i had the same P plates when i got my blacks as when i started on my P's
    never ever lost one
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  14. #14
    XTC
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    All these P plate regs sound like a good idea .. I'd also vote for having to re-sit both written and practical license tests if you lose your license (P plater or not).

    Licence - a privilege, NOT a right !


    - XTC206 -
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    As I submitted to the Travelsafe committee, there's no point in having a system of incentives for provisional drivers & then making them a target for every wet behind the ears fresh out of the Academy probationary constable who has been told by the shift Seargent to "Go & write a few traffic tickets" which is exactly what far too many of them do.
    Better off just not driving for the first period until the low available points are not applicable to give yourself a fighting chance because by the sounds of it, with little stings there such as "properly fitted "P" plates" that's just basically saying "we'll get you one way or the other." My argument was that a driver should be jdged on his/her merits not made a target out of and this kind of brainless legislation does just that. Staged licences for sure with certain restrictions based on reality but not some academic theory.
    This of course does nothing for Road safety but then again, it's not supposed to; just more of the same "Treasury based Road safety Legislations." I'll bet quids, the state Budget will include an allowance for increase in revenue from provisional drivers, not that the Politicians will admit to it.
    When Queensland put out last years budget, they allowed for a 26% increase in revenue from Traffic offences. I wrote to the Treasurer and Transport Minister, and asked for an introduction to their clairvoyant unless this was a case of creating violations rather than detecting them; I still await their respomses.

    As far as the performance of the Skyline goes, I can tell you that the only way one would do those figures is down a well after being fired out of a cannon. How do I know? Well a Gt-R V spec within spitting distance of where I'm sitting told me so.



    Alan S
    Last edited by Alan S; 5th December 2003 at 07:21 PM.

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    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    When Queensland put out last years budget, they allowed for a 26% increase in revenue from Traffic offences. I wrote to the Treasurer and Transport Minister, and asked for an introduction to their clairvoyant unless this was a case of creating violations rather than detecting them; I still await their respomses.
    Don't you LOVE minsterials .. they HAVE to answer .... and I know how much of a pain they are ... I used to write replys for them ... not fun

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Here's something that was common knowledge up here at the time.

    Why and when did Queensland abolish "P" plates?

    Back in the '80s after they changed the rules as to who had to display them. These included anyone who had lost their licence due to losing all their demerit points, anyone convicted of drink driving, anyone charged with a serious driving offence and they had to be dislayed I think in these cases for a period of 6 months.
    Plenty of "people in high places" were among those with the "P"s and whilst on these, they had only 3 or 5 points to play with. The Premier received an avalanche of complaints from 'the big end of Town' from people who claimed it was impossible to get off "P" plates even as an experienced driver mainly due to being continually targetted by the police and they were continually being pulled up even if not booked, as a result, "P" plates were abolished, however, we now have a brains trust of "experts from down South" lobbying the Transport department to reintroduce them & no doubts thsy'll stand a chance of being accepted "based on advice from the Treasury."
    But as old Joh said, "I'll fix this; don't you worry about that!" so it will take a massive effrort to get them once again removed, after all, teenagers don't have much voting clout & don't contribute money to political parties.



    Alan S

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i take note of pretty much every car on the road doing something stupid and at least 80% of the time i look and find a P plate on the car
    when i say stupid i mean flying down a main street in town here at speed
    all you need is some person to walk out from between 2 cars which here are parked at 45 rear to curb (of which everyone must have failed geometry at school) and get hit by a flying idiot
    they think it is COOL to speed and hit the round-a-bouts as quick as they can
    this is only one example i see everyday of how clever they are
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  19. #19
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    i take note of pretty much every car on the road doing something stupid and at least 80% of the time i look and find a P plate on the car
    And 50% of these are Excel/Accent owners who's cars brake and handle about as well as a shopping trolley ! ... no wonder there is 10+ Hyundia "write-offs" per week on average here ! Forgot the Volvo driver there is a new breed now.

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  20. #20
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    The point that I made to Travelsafe Committee is that I have no roblems with "P" plate drivers being penalised he same as anyone elde who is a menace on the road, but when I see Governments setting budgets to proposed revenue from fines, that tells me that whether they want to admit it or not, they set quotas and these are then made an easy tardget.
    It is discrimination of the highest order & in my opinion no better than racial discrimination. Why do Xenophobics panic about the number of Asians in Australia or "black communities?" It's not because they are in the majority, it's because they are easier to identify due to not having our anglo saxon features and this is also why anyone with a "P" plate will always stand out against someone without and give the impression of being in the majority.
    Breached for being stupid shouldn't be the sole domain of the identifiable provisional driver.
    Oh & in case anyone has ambitions of trying to interperit this into a sublimical racially motivated post, I'll send you some happy snaps of some of my friends; very few fall into the typical anglo-saxon mould I speak of. More like a meeting of CHOGM.

    Alan S

  21. #21
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    Alan S, due to its own laws, all Governments must publish General Purpose Financial Reports. Surely you know this. In order for these to be accurate they must *predict* (thats what a budget is afterall) their revenue from speeding fines.

    While a 26% increase is only a fair prediction if they intend to be far more vigilent with their policing, I really cannot see how it amounts to descrimination.

    As a Victorian P driver I also received the package from the transport minister about these laws. The punishment for driving without P-plates displayed seems a bit tough to me. The ones you buy are such poor quality. I think I've owned about 5 sets in one year. They stick fine until someone else uses the car, then they never go back on again! GRR
    Tim

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    XTC
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    I'm not out to crucify, victimise and generally harass P platers (after all I was one at one stage). But P plates are like an apprenticeship ... you are still learning and require more supervision ... you should also be given tighter boundaries but also given guidance. If you can't "behave" on the road then you need to be "re-educated" ... a longer apprenticeship so to speak. And those that continue to "mis-behave" perhaps should re-sit their apprenticeship.

    What people don't want to see is a P Plate being the equivalent to a red rag to a bull (which is a fallacy as bulls are colour blind - but you get my drift).

    - XTC206 -

    PS: Anecdote ... last night (05/12/2003) about 10:30pm while travelling along the freeway (Kwinana for those in Perth) a "P Plater" in a Mitsubishi Mirage flew past me doing something like 120-130 in a 100 zone. About 5kms later this same car (not far past Canning Hwy), had ran off the road and hit a light pole dead front ... the light was snapped off at the base and strewn over one lane and the emergency lane. 1/2 dozen cars had already stopped so I drove on, but there didn't seem to be another car involved (but I can't be sure). It could have been mechanical (or alcohol) induced - but I guess speed and inexperience probably played a part in this ... As for the condition of the occupants? not sure There wasn't time for the ambulance to get there yet.
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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  23. #23
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    I think of P plates as a lisence to learn by ones self.
    Tim

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Last night in torrential/driving rain, I had my son on his learners permit getting some experience in when we were tailgated for about 30 klms by a motorcycle with his light on high beam right in the rear view mirror. He slowed to allow him to pass but he didn't, he pulled into the left lane at divided roads & reduced speed to allow him to pass, but he didn't and when we moved off the main drag onto the branch road to our place he still stayed stuck to the tail of our car with lights on high beam. As we were driving the BX and this was getting quite annoying, I suggested he hit a few decent potholes so as to spray some shitty water all over this clown to "encourage" him to pass which eventually did the trick and as he passed, a reflective sign on the back of his bright yellow rain jacket read P.o.l.i.c.e. Now am I being picky complaining about this lout or had the car been carrying "P" or "L" plates would he have pulled us up for any small excuse? See what I mean? If it was a copper on his way home from work, who would have known the difference? It still makes him an @r$#ole in my books doing what he did, but I couldn't have classified him.
    Oh & Serge; yes I do know what Government legislation is all about & I do know what "General Purpose Financial Reports" are too. I also know that they aren't budgets which are in fact as you say "estimates" of proposed income whereas the "General Purpose Financial Reports" are issued after not before these funds are generated, therein lies the difference.

    Alan S

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    This is true

    But the idea is still the same. They have to predict revenue for the coming year for their budget. They cannot KNOW how many people will speed, such a suggestion is absurd imho.

    I guess the difference in what we are saying is that you see the forecast of a 26% rise in camera revenue as a target, whereas I see it as a prediction

    Maybe I'm just not as cynical as you
    Tim

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