Bureaucracy gone mad...
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  1. #1
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Default Bureaucracy gone mad...

    From another forum, posted by a woman who looks after kids (daycare)...

    The world has gone stark staring mad!!!!!!

    You know - I have to have a sari in my dressing up box for the kids (regulations - pah), I have asked what the hell a sari is doing in there along with a postman Pat suit, a batman suit, a fireman sam suit, a Bob the Builder suit and fairy outfits - but I just get told that in order to promote cultural awareness I have to have a sari!!!!! I also am supposed to feed them chinese meals once a month and let them eat with chopsticks! They get into enough mess with spoons and forks for heavens sake! (the full timers who eat lunch are only toddlers after all) Political correctness? farcical most of it.
    Sound familiar?

    Post your better examples below...

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    This one's not bad.
    A 94 year old grazier had some pen pusher who was not going to allow him to let him take his cattle over Crown Lease land. Only problem was, the water was on the other side of it.


    http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/c...55E952,00.html

    Where do they find all these idiots? Do they keep a database of them so they know where to look for them? I can't believe it could be possible to find so many stupid brainless bloody idiots without actuall either having a database or going out specifically to look for them.

    I had a local one though. I found my land had been zoned "Rural" which by the Town Plan means by definition that I have to be 40 Ha. The problem is that by having this zoning means that anybody can do on a 5 acre lot that which is allowed on a 100 acre block so you get all these weirdos coming along with all kinds of bright ideas.
    We approached Council to rezone it to where it should be as per their own definition (ie) Rural Residential....2 Ha lots but were told the State Government wouldn't allow it as they were trying to limit the number of 2 Ha lots that were to be devloped. I wrote to the Local Govt Minister & got a reply that they had nothing to do with it, it was the Council that put the wrong zoning on it & the Council had to correct it. Council's response "it's alright for the Minister to say that but the officers won't allow it." Back to the minister who couldn't figure all the drama & suggested they just submit it via the Ministers Office & it would happen. Response from Council "We will have to totally redraft the entire Town Plan." When asked why were told due to all the 5 acre lots it would create. Asked where. Response was "In the area where you live>" When asked why because they were already all in 5 Acres were told "It just would; everybody would want to cut their blocks into 5 acre lots." Response: ..." but if they're already in 5 acre lots, how can they suddenly become more?" Response:- "You just don't understand; as soon as we do this, it will open the floodgates; we'll have 5 acre lots everywhere out there." (By this time, we had reached the point of a Private meeting between the Mayor and most of the Councillors, all the senior Officers; CEO, Town Planner and a few other wannabe important types mainly there to give their mates moral support and all that was happening was this character talking us round in circles & insisting that the Government wouldn't let them do it (even though we had a letter from the Minister to the contrary) that if they zoned an area of 300 lots each 5 acres to effectively a 5 acre zoning, all of a sudden all these lots would multiply and that they'd have to redo the entire Town Plan for the entire place; 2500 square klms. Naturally, it was only a matter of time before I blew a fuse.
    Above all the cross chatter and side talk came a voice sounding remarkably like me
    How much do they pay you a year? $150K - $200K? AM I RIGHT?? Well how can anyone this F**&^^&*(g stupid justify a salary like that? Can YOU tell ME? You could have heard a pin drop, but after all the "Hey calm down mate"s had passed, it was then decided it wasn't all that hard to do after all.
    It all comes down to emphasising the point and pointing out some crucial facts obviously.



    So if you sometimes wonder why I seem like a cranky old b@$+@rd at times; now you know why. These are the types I often have to deal with.


    Alan S

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    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    How much do they pay you a year? $150K - $200K? AM I RIGHT?? Well how can anyone this F**&^^&*(g stupid justify a salary like that? Can YOU tell ME?
    Alan .. you'd love the goings on at the local Joondalup Council try $200K+ per year for a man with fake qualifications

    - XTC206 -


    http://www.thewest.com.au/20031202/n...sto116500.html


    Joondalup council under seige

    By Amanda Banks

    ANGRY Joondalup ratepayers took over a special council meeting last night refusing to leave the council chambers and sparking a tense stand-off with councillors over escalating problems surrounding controversial chief executive Denis Smith.

    The meeting failed to start after about 250 ratepayers refused to leave the chambers and 10 of Joondalup's 15 councillors refused to attend until the packed gallery was emptied.

    Ratepayers filled the councillors' 10 empty seats at the invitation of mayor Don Carlos and called for Mr Smith to be sacked and Local Government Minister Tom Stephens to intervene.

    "Denis Smith should go," a resident, Kim Young, said.

    State Government intervention seems almost inevitable as a Thursday deadline set by Mr Stephens looms without any clear resolutions to the issues surrounding Mr Smith's appointment and ongoing employment.

    Questions about Mr Smith's qualifications have dogged the council for more than two years, prompting an Upper House parliamentary inquiry and bitter council infighting.

    Last night ratepayers showed their overwhelming support for Mr Carlos who has been a vocal critic of Mr Smith and repeatedly called on him to show his qualifications.

    Mr Carlos received a standing ovation from the crowd who formally acknowledged his backing in a motion.

    As each of the boycotting councillors' names were read out - including five councillors who called the special meeting last week - the crowd booed and hissed.

    The meeting, which was adjourned last Monday, could not continue because there was not a quorum.

    "(Councillors) have made it quite clear that they are not going to come into this chamber while you (the ratepayers) are here," Mr Carlos said.

    "I do not intend to ask you to leave. You may leave of your own accord but that is up to you.

    "As a democratically elected mayor I believe that you should be here to listen to everything that goes on. "If we are going to pay out a large sum of money you should be here to hear details of this."

    In a separate statement released last night, Mr Smith said seven councillors were available and waiting to attend the special council meeting once the chamber was cleared.

    "As this did not occur, the legal advice given to the elected members was that the meeting could not proceed and that they should not attend the chamber," he said.

    Mr Stephens has given the council until Thursday to resolve its problems.

    A failure to restore good governance will result in the council's suspension or a State Government inquiry.

    Mr Carlos last night acknowledged that factional fighting meant the council was dysfunctional.

    He said councillors were becoming increasingly worried about the situation and their financial security after a Supreme Court writ was lodged last week against the council and himself by Mr Smith seeking damages.

    A working group of seven councillors set up to resolve the conflict has failed to reach any decisions.

    At a meeting of the OVER 86 lns, 256 mmsgroup late yesterday council lawyer Neil Douglas refused to present a report in the presence of Denis Smith, citing a potential conflict of interest.

    Mr Carlos said the five elected members present at last night's meeting had intended to call for Mr Smith to be stood down.

    In an e-mail from councillor Chris Baker that was circulated at the meeting indicated councillors were concerned for their safety and requested extra security.

    "I am aware that many councillors are concerned about their physical safety at tonight's meeting particularly given the various threats that the mayor's gang of goons have been recently making to councillors," Cr Baker said in the e-mail.

    "I regret to advise that unless there are proper security arrangements in place for tonight's meeting I will not be attending.

    "I am sick to death of the violent, threatening and intimidating behaviour of the mayor's gang."

    A Department of Local Government representative attended last night's meeting but is understood to have left after about 45 minutes.

    After the meeting was opened to public discussion ratepayers raised concerns that councillors were understood to be discussing paying out Mr Smith between $300,000 and $1.3 million.

    It is also understood councillors have discussed a possible legal action against Mr Carlos to recoup the money.

    Mr Carlos said he believed if ratepayers had not taken a stand last night councillors would have voted for a big pay-out to resolve the issue.

    Mr Carlos also outlined six alleged mistakes in the curriculum vitae Mr Smith submitted to obtain the Joondalup position, which is worth $236,000 a year.

    He said he had met Mr Stephens late yesterday but the minister said he would not give an indication of his decision on the council until Thursday.

    Last night's meeting was adjourned until 7.30pm tomorrow (subs: Wed) and ratepayers vowed to return.

    A full council meeting is also scheduled for tonight.
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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    Cal
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    Too many public servants = too many bureaucrats.

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    A person here in Southern Tasmania moved here a few years ago from the Mainland after he had to process a writ (he was a lawyer) against his clerk for calling a "personhole" a manhole. He was already fed up with political correctness after processing a writ against somebody for calling a "huntsperson" spider a huntsman spider.
    He decided he would rather live in a Tasmanian village and bake fruitcake instead.
    Last edited by Alan S; 3rd December 2003 at 11:44 AM.
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Pugnut403
    A person here in Southern Tasmania moved here a few years ago from the Mainland after he had to process a writ (he was a lawyer) against his clerk for calling a "personhole" a manhole. He was already fed up with political correctness after processing a writ against somebody for calling a "huntsperson" spider a huntsman spider.
    He decided he would rather live in a Tasmanian village and bake fruitcake instead.
    Good move...

    As long as he doesn't decide to chop down a tree.

    That's when he finds out that the stand of trees in his backyard is protected as 'original forest' or something, despite the obvious signs that it was logged time and again over the past century and a half.

    There's problems everywhere... when will it stop?

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugnut403
    A person here in Southern Tasmania moved here a few years ago from the Mainland after he had to process a writ (he was a lawyer) against his clerk for calling a "personhole" a manhole. He was already fed up with political correctness after processing a writ against somebody for calling a "huntsperson" spider a huntsman spider.
    He decided he would rather live in a Tasmanian village and bake fruitcake instead.

    I've called a few Politicians & Pubic Servants "Arseholes" but that should be alright as that's not "Gender specific" and neither am I...I"ve called both male and female the same.


    Alan S


    *NOTE* Pugnut 403...I accidentally hit "edit" when I tried to hit "reply" which is why your posting shows it "edited" by me. Sorry, all restored back to normal.

    A.S.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted in shock by Alan S
    *NOTE* Pugnut 403...I accidentally hit "edit" when I tried to hit "reply" which is why your posting shows it "edited" by me. Sorry, all restored back to normal.
    Ah, so you're glad I quoted him?

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    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I think we all should refrain from attacking public servants and turning this into a witch hunt..

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Nah, wasn't that serious Ray; it's just that my answer ended up in the middle of his posting. Could have had everybody reaching for their glasses (or putting them down)


    Alan S

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    I think we all should refrain from attacking public servants and turning this into a witch hunt..
    .........................and you're a member of which department?
    Nobody's pickin' on them, we're just talking about what they've done. If it's so embarrassing, then all they have to do is start acting normal.

    Anyway Daniel, check the spelling; I didn't call anyone a pubLic servant; I've gotta much better description.


    Alan S

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    UFO
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    Perhaps we should differentiate between bureaucrats and public servants?

    When you look at the workforce, perhaps 50% are public servants - that might be a little high but not too far off. In that you include the likes of myself as a long term public service employee, but also defence, law enforcement, teachers, uni lecturers, hospital employees (nurses, doctors et al) and a myriad of others.

    It is when people go "off" at someone at the RTA etc who may have an interpretation of the rules that either you do not agree with OR you strongly believe (and can sometimes prove as I have done) that their interpretation of the rules is wrong and THEN they are labelled as bloody bureaucratic public servants.

    Well hang on a sec - I've dealt with private sector employees who are just as bad at times. How often on AF have we had great rants at Insurance Co call centre staff who said "this and that and they're bloody idiots yadd yadda". Funny, no one ever calls THEM bureaucrats. Dealt with a phone company recently?!

    I agree that there are some silly rules around BOTH in public and private sector, but be fair, all organisations have some whacko rules and people interpreting them.

    The thing in WA with the Council GM who is stuffing up - yeah, hang him if he is proven to be a fraud. But I bet HE won't walk with a massive payout like certain other failed private sector directors do when THEY stuff up.
    There, my

    Thanks for the support Daniel. Many other public servants on AF should thank you too. There's a few I could name.
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    To be honest, I thought the thread (which I started...) was about stupid rules... not about the people...

    Now the final decision on rulemaking doesn't rest so much with the bureaucrats as with the legislature. But it's the bureaucrats who follow them through.

    Yeah, you're right, I launched an attack on some public servants...

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Oh there you are.....wondered where you'd got to.


    Let's just not turn this into a slanging match, but hey, as I said, we aren't talking personal here, we're talking about what was done, not who it was that did it.
    When I sit there looking at someone whose being paid out of my tax dollars to the tune of multiples of the average weekly wage & he tells me that I can't have my land zoned to what it is due to him zoning it to something he shouldn't have that doesn't fit the description, and the reason is that he thinks that me & my neighbours are going to subdivide our existing 5 acre lots into even more 5 acre lots (please explain) and not only is he talking through what he's sitting on, he's proven wrong by his Minister, private consultants and senior Government policy advisers even using primary school maths (300 lots @ 5acres = 1500 acres - 1500 acres = 300 X 5 acre lots) and still wants to argue everybody else is wrong & he's correct and this action of his is affecting the lives of 200 families, financially, emotionallly and in the long term and if he were to get the flick, he walks off with a fat cheque for his Super, Long service and if within the term of his contract, a golden handshake & we're left with the mess, I sure as hell am not going to back off on him & presumably neither would you.
    And when I report mangroves getting bulldozed & 2 years later almost to the day I get a call from the "Officer" concerned who opens the conversation with "I understand you reported someone bulldozing mangroves..." and then wonder why I get rather sarcastic with the response "Yes, that's correct, but I don't think they're there now; if you'd like to hold the line I'll go down & take a look just in case!!"
    Or the claim form I was given to copy and return only to have it rejected and when I follow it up I'm told because the ink was the wrong colour.
    Or the boat trailer I was told had to have a roadworthy (prior to them being compulsory) by a girl in the office & as I was totally p!$+ off at having to drive all these miles home I bolted the number plate where it made it impossible to be used but she didn't notice, or the time I go in to get a licence renewal for one of the boys who had an expired licence with his photo on it & we were told we had to still produce his birth certificate AND something with his photo on it to prove who he was, the previous licence which naturally included a photo didn't count apparently, or the testing officer at the Transport department who used to put a stop watch on the indicators of the motorbike before we went for a driving test & if it blinked less than 1 per second declared the bike unroadworthy & wouldn't go out, but couldn't understand that with the engine running the indicators worked faster due to the power being generated & that the speed when stationary was immaterial......I could keep going if you like, but the point is, if any of this kind of crap happened in Private enterprise, they'd be for the long jump, but in the Public service, their mates will defend them & the same stupid people will continue to do the same stupid things over & over again. And when do the department heads get rolled in State & Federal departments? Immediately after an election when there's a change in Government political colours; nothing to do with competence, all about politics.
    Not all Public Servants/Bureaucrats are ding bats, but the ones that are sure are bloody lulus and unfortunately the most frustrating part is that when one screws a member of the general public, you soon find out what the statement "It's a long way to the top" really means.

    Alan S

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    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    I have to say, I agree with a lot of what Alan says. I say this because I work for an organisation that was once a government department (SBS), and most of the people who work here are public servants, employed from the old days.

    The problem is when people have power without accountability. It's almost impossible to fire a public servant without giving them a big fat redundancy cheque. So, people become complacent. This is not true of everybody, there's just some who ruin it for the rest.

    Just as bad, I've found, are some people working in the admin of universities and TAFEs. Absolutely frightening, some of the experiences I've had.

    Once at TAFE I had to take a form to the records office within 2 days to have my record updated, so I could enrol for the next year's course. I dutifully filled in the form and took it to the office. The woman there refused to do it, saying that the procedure was that she wasn't allowed to do it until after a certain date, which happened to be 3 days later. I told her I wasn't going to waste a whole extra year to do the course because her procedures said she must do the 10 seconds work on the computer in 3 days time, not now. She still refused. I badgered her for 15 mins, explained that 10secs of her time would save 1 year of mine (A note for the mathematically incline: do TAFE employees really think their time is approximately 3153600 times more valuable than mine?). Eventually I said I wasn't leaving until she did it. And I meant it. She did it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LookingforMi16
    Just as bad, I've found, are some people working in the admin of universities and TAFEs. Absolutely frightening, some of the experiences I've had.

    Well you know what TAFE stands for.....

    "Try And Freakin' Enrol!!"



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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    Mr Carlos also outlined six alleged mistakes in the curriculum vitae Mr Smith submitted to obtain the Joondalup position, which is worth $236,000 a year.
    John Howard only gets $240K (base) doesn't he? No matter what you think of him, he should get ten times what that Joondalup councillor gets...

    Stuey
    (City of Joondalup ratepayer, Public Servant, and thrillseeker)

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    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Now the final decision on rulemaking doesn't rest so much with the bureaucrats as with the legislature. But it's the bureaucrats who follow them through.
    And we are fast becoming one of the most over legislated countries on earth. A privilage I pay 49c in the dollar tax for.

    I work in the recruitment industry. People who work in the public service are considered to be completely different creatures within the industry I work in. I didn't make it that way, they did it to themselves through complacency, laziness and incompetence. Naturally that is not the case for all. It is however considered to be the case for the majority. I don't expect to make any friends with that statement, but they haven't been making friends with me for years. BTW, I once worked in the public service and thought it was a joke. From my experience, there were 3 people to do the job one could have. If you are a hard working public servant, I applaud you and apologise if this is insulting to you. If this is the case, please walk over and kick the first lazy colleague you come across. I'm sure you won't have to walk far.

    Cal.
    Last edited by Cal; 5th December 2003 at 12:56 PM.
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    A good example of idiocy with governments going the other way is the rather stupid farmers in Victoria who want to sue the DSE for the bushfires wiping out their farms. They reckon that the DSE should have burned all the forests so they wouldnt burn..... And they are complaining that the huge force of mostly volenteer firefighters didnt do enough to protect the farms.

    This is Australia. We are extremely prone to bushfires, and you might as well ask the rivers to stop flooding and the droughts to never return. It is a fact of life here and if they're not used to it by now they may want to consider a career move.
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    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    John Howard only gets $240K (base) doesn't he? No matter what you think of him, he should get ten times what that Joondalup councillor gets... Stuey (City of Joondalup ratepayer, Public Servant, and thrillseeker)
    As a rate payer in that council you could attend one of there meetings .. they are VERY interesting at the moment ... see you on channel 10 - just wear an Aussiefrog T-Shirt so we can spot you !

    - XTC206 -
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