Automotive Plagiarism
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View Poll Results: Has Lexus copied Mercedes styling with the LS430?

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    17 94.44%
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  1. #1
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Default Automotive Plagiarism

    The Japanese have been lambasted here in the past for being unoriginal.

    Below is the latest Lexus LS430. I personally think it looks awfully Mercedes like, gee they've even tried to copy the tail light treatment. Do you agree? Vote in the poll.


    What are some other examples of automotive plagiarism? It doesn't have to be styling, it can be pieces of engineering, etc.

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    It looks big and boring, true to lexus form. Mercedes are far more aesthetically pleasing...
    Tim

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    rek
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    At the time the new Lexus LS was introduced, a number of Mercedes higher-ups were not at all impressed at what they saw as shameless copying... let's face it, they have a reputation:

    old Lexus LS <--> old Merc S-class
    new Lexus LS <--> new Merc S-class
    Lexus SC <--> Audi TT (that's let itself go in middle age)
    Lexus ES <--> Peugeot 607

    All too often, Lexuses seem to be either obvious tart-ups of their more modest Toyota equivalent, or a ripoff of another (usually high-end European) companie's design. The only really unique car they have is the IS series.

    In my politically incorrect mind, Lexuses (Lexi?) are for pretentious people who can't afford a BMW

    Irony Corner: Lexus introduced the whole "Altezza style" rear light craze, which a number of companies (including BMW of all, in the 3 compact..) have ended up 'adopting' :>
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    Renault Scenic - Daewoo Tacuma

    Volvo c70? coupe-Holden Monaro

    Peugeot 604-Alfa 164 (same designer incase u cant tell from the side profile )

    Peugeot 307-Honda Civic (not sure which came first)

    AU Falcon-Baboons butt

  5. #5
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    Some good examples there.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Volvo c70? coupe-Holden Monaro
    Ding, 100% Correct. Gee I never knew you were such a Volvo expert

    I still remember on aus.cars someone calling it the Volvo Monaro, but it was released quite a few years before. Back in 1996 actually!

    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Peugeot 307-Honda Civic (not sure which came first)
    The Civic was released first, but bear in mind with long design lead times, I don't think Peugeot had time to copy the design for the 307.

    A few of those boxy Japanese micro cars all look the same.

    Honda Accord Euro & the Mazda 6 have awfully similar noses (Mazda 626 released first).

    Mazda 626 & the Renault Safrane (626 released first)

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    Mini drivetrain layout copied by 75% of cars on the road today.

    The Mazda Bongo motor is a shameless ripoff of a Renault 10 motor.

    BTW, I agree about the AU Mistareno.
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    The reality is the design of these cars is set in stone well before the other models are released.

    I certainly do not think Lexus are for poor BMW aspirants. On the contrary, Lexus appeal to people who couldnt really care much about their cars but want some class, reliability, and good customer service.

    In any case I doubt the LS430 represents a credible threat to the S-Class given the fact that since its launch the new A8, XJ, 7-Series, and even the new Range Rover have appeared on the block. The LS430 is not really all that competitive, partly because of its styling is so anonymous I reckon.

    If you saw the two cars next to each other you'd be left in little doubt as to the cars family heritage.

    I think Lexus need to develop a nice family image.
    Tim

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  8. #8
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    Will Toyota ever consistently come up with original designs for their cars??
    All the Lexii are shameless ripoffs of other luxury cars, usually of German origin. The exception being the ES300, which is an uglified remake of the nicely done Camry. The only cars which show a hint of flair and originality in their current lineup are the Camry and Celica.
    The new (Freddy) Kluger is practically a clone of the Subaru Forester.
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  9. #9
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    suzuki swift-holden barina..

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    well....where do i start.......ahhh hell...there is just so much of it happening (plagarism), its just not funny anymore....

    but toyota (something thats been happening since early crown days and their straight six motor) seems to be the worst offender....it has made their cars much better though in procces....its just a shame they r not copying merc ideals and thinking...rather they opt for straight out design copies...which more than ofen than not look much worse than original....

    i m an architectural designer by trade but i think i have a good eye for little details so here are some things to look out for to give the game away (in my opinion)....:

    door handles (merc style) copied by many.....their mid mount brake light (toyotas is almost identical)...merc lights (evolotionary),u just need to look at some hyundais for this....rear tail lights with strips of integrated reverse lenses have been copied by subaru (forester) and in the earlier models (think 300d) by crown...then there were the double bumpers....their (mercs) tail treatment where the numberplate sits has been copied by many as well but again toyota are worse offenders....hell even the roof line has been copied since the early 450 coupes....

    the latest car that is probably going to become an integration of more ripp-offs than some is the new subary (yes the one with integra headlights) and bmw/audi rear end....look at this car and SEE how many other cars u see in it???


    As for misteranos list...well its spot on..could not be more right...
    its interesting though how toyota ha gone about this....bit by bit they have integrated some of the merc styling and since they ve been doing it for so long they probably FEEL some kind of ownership over these design clues....but its sad really....i remeber one of my proffesors (obviously clueless about cars)who teaches design saying something like:..."well these days even the mercedes LOOKS like a TOYOTA"....sad but true...ie many people will obviously give credit WHERE IT IS NOT due....

    cheers

    dino

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    actually...now that u ve bought up the little suzuki.....AM I the only one who thinks that this car would never have come into existance if it were not for the 205gti....just look at it closely next time (older model with grey bumpers)....always freaks me out...surely the pininfarina guys and gals werent copying the suzuki????


    cheers
    dino

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    don't forget the 405 and the ford telstar/mazda 626

    also the suspension under the rear of the first of the wide body camrys are 405 as well and they admitted to copying it even though it was 10 years after the 405 was released

    the new megane and ford anglia is another one that comes to mind
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  13. #13
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    The Ford GT (was GT40 in the 60's) designers bought and pulled apart 2 Ferrari 355's just to see how they worked - so although they don't look alike - why re-invent the wheel ?

    - XTC206 -
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    hmmm...although to their credit, i think the corollas (especiallylate 80s hatch) was pretty original (ugly but original) looking vehicle....what do u guys think of the headlights on the new AVALON...holly crap....geeezzz...its like even if u tryed to stuff it up more...u couldn t....maybe in some cases it makes more sense to copy...ie...if u cant beat them, ...join them...


    cheers
    dino

  15. #15
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    Hi,

    Peugeot tried to sue lexus for the copy of the peugeot headlights in the new camry and lexus. I don't know how they got on???

    Nick

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    suzuki swift-holden barina..
    I think that's a bit of an unfair example - badge engineering doesn't count. Otherwise we could then say Holden Commodore & Toyota Lexcen, Toyota Camry & Holden Apollo, Toyota Corolla & Holden Nova, Nissan Pulsar & Holden Astra (80's one), Nissan Pintara & Ford Corsair, etc, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    also the suspension under the rear of the first of the wide body camrys are 405 as well and they admitted to copying it even though it was 10 years after the 405 was released
    Untrue.

    The 405 has the traditional Peugeot torsion bars & trailing arms setup.
    The 'Widebody' Camry has the ever so boring MacPherson strut based setup at the rear.

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  17. #17
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    As blatantly obvious as it is - with no effort to conceal it on any parts.

    Daihatsu Copen V Audi TT

    They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and I'd say that Daihatsu really wanted to flatter Audi the day they designed the copen. So amazingly similar that it almost doesn't even warrant mentioning.

    Nick

  18. #18
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    Presenting the Kia WRX


    Rush to your Kia dealer now for the Kia Rio Sport-Pac, $3038 including GST plus fitting.

    To think the people that distribute Citroen downunder came up with this

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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ....old lancer gsr meets previous four door honda meets wrx.....they go for a coffee, a quick shag and the above is the resultant bastard child.....sad....

    nice pic....thanks justin..havent seen one on the road yet....what do u think about the new subaru? can u post some pics of it....?


    cheers
    dino

  20. #20
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    Remember alot of cars come from the same designers....

    The XM, Xantia and Daewoo Espero were all from bertone
    and there are noticable similarities there....

    The 405, 164, 605 were all pininfarina....hence their similarities too
    Last edited by DTwo; 19th November 2003 at 03:01 PM. Reason: 605 not 604 :D ......espero not espiro :)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    nice pic....thanks justin..havent seen one on the road yet....what do u think about the new subaru? can u post some pics of it....?
    Which new Subaru? I'm thinking Liberty, is that the one you want?

    I don't think I could ever get a Kia like that, wouldn't you just feel like a wannabe twat driving a think with the "When I grow up, I want to be a WRX" body kit?

    Then again, you have all these bloody ricers around. There must be a market for it I guess, fortunately I haven't seen one out on the road.

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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    yes, the liberty....have a good look at the back of it especially....see what u think...seems like audi/volkswagen is influencing many...beemers have gone their own way and i think some are scared to follow....

    cheers
    dino

    PS. i d love to see a photo of a year old outback minus the subaru badging....paint it silver (classy merc colour) and put a merc star in the middle and FROM BACK ONLY it (to me ) looks like a merc that was never made but should have been...ie midsize merc4wd...

  23. #23
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    The bongo motor has an alloy (two piece) block and cross flow head so I don't see how it is a copy of the R10 motor. The 16TS is a bit closer. but bigger of course.

    Graham Wallis

  24. #24
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    yes, the liberty....have a good look at the back of it especially....see what u think...seems like audi/volkswagen is influencing many...beemers have gone their own way and i think some are scared to follow....
    Good to see though .. to many "safe" copycats, you may not like the new Megane .. but you can't help but notice it's different !

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  25. #25
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    Good to see though .. to many "safe" copycats, you may not like the new Megane .. but you can't help but notice it's different !

    - XTC206 -
    check out a ford anglia and tell me the megane is new and different
    it's a direct copy
    you will see why when you see an anglia
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