Widening wheels
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Thread: Widening wheels

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    Default Widening wheels

    Hi all.

    I saw quite a few examples of widened wheels at the French Car Day in Balwyn. I've been thinking about this for quite some time for Binky (my 404). So I'm just wondering if anyone can recommend a place to have this done (around Melbourne), and what sort of price I should expect. I'm also wondering if there is an optimal centre offset to aim for, or how I can calculate such?

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    Many thanks, Binky.

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    Fellow Frogger! DjB8V's Avatar
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    A friend had some wheels widened quite significantly by a place in Melbourne but its not exactly cheap. Such a shame 404s don't have a more common PCD.

    Ill check with my mate as to where and how much next I'm chatting with him.


    Chris

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjB8V View Post
    A friend had some wheels widened quite significantly by a place in Melbourne but its not exactly cheap. Such a shame 404s don't have a more common PCD.

    Ill check with my mate as to where and how much next I'm chatting with him.


    Chris
    Hi Binky,

    When you widen wheels you must replace the rims and fit the existing centre to the new rim. Not all rims are suitable. To get the correct offset you need the dished area to be wider than usual in most cases. For example, Holden 14 inch rims are not suitable as donors for a 404 conversion.

    So, in most cases you are looking at a new "blank " rim which when fitted to your existing spun down centre works out around $90-$100 per wheel.

    In the old days it was acceptable to cut an existing rim and weld in a piece of rolled steel to widen the wheel. This is now banned for on road use.

    You can try :

    Ajax Wheel Repairs
    Cnr Exley Drv & Ewar St
    Moorabbin
    VIC, 3189
    Australia
    Contact Details
    Ph: (03) 9555 7737

    Neway wheel repairs.
    11 Beatrice Ave,
    West Heidelberg
    Victoria
    9457 3141

    I have used Ajax and have found them excellent, owned and run by two "Grumpy Old Men", who are prone to taking long weekends and short days but who know the wheel industry backward.

    cheers


    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    Hi all.

    I saw quite a few examples of widened wheels at the French Car Day in Balwyn. I've been thinking about this for quite some time for Binky (my 404). So I'm just wondering if anyone can recommend a place to have this done (around Melbourne), and what sort of price I should expect. I'm also wondering if there is an optimal centre offset to aim for, or how I can calculate such?

    Many thanks, Binky.
    Leave the inner side of the rim as is and widen outwards.
    6 inch rims and fit 195 65 tyres.
    Graham

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    Thanks all


    Binky

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Wide wheels

    G/DAY Binky
    Rob i used Holden 14"x 5" rims on my R10 by reversing the rims welding up the valve hole and drilling a new one in the other side, Would this give the right offset for the 404?
    Cheers Peter.

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    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
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    Years ago my dad cut the centres out of 403 rims and welded them into 14x6.5 Falcon rims. Looked fat on 215x55R14s.

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    My Supermodel 63-1092's Avatar
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    I just picked up last month a wheel i had made up for my Floride, a R10 insert they cut out, had it chromed and welded onto a six x fifteen inch chromed rim, which cost $250. I had it done in Lilydale, but can't remember what their called and someone asked me on Sunday about mine so i gave him their card.
    John
    Александър Кристоф Шанел

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J Kent View Post
    G/DAY Binky
    Rob i used Holden 14"x 5" rims on my R10 by reversing the rims welding up the valve hole and drilling a new one in the other side, Would this give the right offset for the 404?
    Cheers Peter.
    It may work. But 14 inch wheels on a 404, even with 205/65 give about a 10% percent reduction in gearing.

    This makes an already under geared car worse for cruising - great for rally work 'tho.

    I will run 14s because I have a 5 speed which has 20% overdrive on 5th gear. Even then I'll go for a high profile an 75 or 80

    Most of the wheel works don't want to dick around with used rims or filling up valve holes.

    For a highway car with standard gearbox I'd go for 185-70 (or75)-15 which gives a similar rolling circumference to the original cross plys which car was fitted with. With a 2 litre engine, provided you can accommodate the higher profile within the guards, the higher the gearing the better. The rears guards are the problem and using a jack to splay guard outs has been done more than once.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    It may work. But 14 inch wheels on a 404, even with 205/65 give about a 10% percent reduction in gearing.

    This makes an already under geared car worse for cruising - great for rally work 'tho.

    I will run 14s because I have a 5 speed which has 20% overdrive on 5th gear. Even then I'll go for a high profile an 75 or 80

    Most of the wheel works don't want to dick around with used rims or filling up valve holes.

    For a highway car with standard gearbox I'd go for 185-70 (or75)-15 which gives a similar rolling circumference to the original cross plys which car was fitted with. With a 2 litre engine, provided you can accommodate the higher profile within the guards, the higher the gearing the better. The rears guards are the problem and using a jack to splay guard outs has been done more than once.
    Good point Rob. I might need to do some maths to calculate rolling circumference (eek! I've got an humanities brain - maths scares me!!!) As you say, with the 2 litre engine, I could definitely drive a larger circumference comfortably. With the stiffer springs which I like to call "Robmac specials" the car sits a bit higher, so might accommodate a larger circumference. But after the body work I've had done, there is NO WAY I'll be pumping guards!

    BTW Rob, do you still have any 404 outer sill panels available? I'm cashed up and looking



    Cheers, Binky.
    Last edited by Binky; 5th May 2011 at 10:27 PM.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    Good point Rob. I might need to do some maths to calculate rolling circumference (eek! I've got an humanities brain - maths scares me!!!) As you say, with the 2 litre engine, I could definitely drive a larger circumference comfortably. With the stiffer springs which I like to call "Robmac specials" the car sits a bit higher, so might accommodate a larger circumference. But after the body work I've had done, there is NO WAY I'll be pumping guards!




    This calculator is as good as any.....http://miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html


    If you go wider wheels you need to address the front wheel geometry too. You can do it by packing the caster bars or re-drilling the top three bolt holes on the strut.

    Really wide tyres on a 404 without adjusting camber/caster makes the car far too twitchy to drive.

    I expect GW will post and tell us the drilling details.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Binky's Avatar
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    So I finally got around to contacting Neway wheels in west heidelberg. He says he can fit an aussie 15" rim, but he'll have to put it around backwards, offering the dished "back" of the rim to the outside. I don't see this as a problem though...


    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Leave the inner side of the rim as is and widen outwards.
    6 inch rims and fit 195 65 tyres.
    Graham
    Having a close look at the car, the guy said that we may be hard pressed to fit the wheels inside the rear guards if we only widen outwards. But then the tie rod ends at the front don't give much clearance on the inside. He wasn't keen on varying them from front to rear, as this would alter the track from front to rear - a hesitance I agreed with.

    So I've left him with one rim, and he's gonna have a play. Then I'll take the car around again and we'll see how the clearances look.

    Will keep y'all posted...

    Binky.

  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    Default wheels

    using 15 inch centres machined to suit 14 " or 15" rims is the go . by the way need to trouble shoot a problem in floride .have power at starter & regulator but NO power @ dash / ignition whatsoever . any clues please thx les

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