Those Asian frogs
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Default Those Asian frogs

    In a TV news clip on the Shanghai Show we were introduced to the head of the Shanghai design office of PSA. She was a very serious Chinese young lady who seemed to have little French. This office apparently had significant input into the DS5.
    The Frenchman responsible for Chinese sales, with a map of sales by province on the wall behind, announced that with local production at 400,000 cars per annum they lacked capacity and were now building a second factory to assemble another 400,000.
    Meanwhile at our local Easter Fête the car dealers showed their latest offerings. The Renault line up was headed by the Latitude. It was a demonstrator for sale at 30,000 Euros against the list price of 40,600. As it was a low kilometrage one has to wonder why they are taking a 25% hit. It is to prime the market ? or is it, as I suspect, that luxury car are getting no easier to sell here because of consumer pessimism about the economic outlook?
    It gave me a good chance to have a look at the interior. It is pretty basic for a top of the range car, with typical Korean love of chrome plastic, as the only thing to break up the black on black. That said it looked very well put together but not as classy as the C5 on show in the other camp.
    The Pug team were pushing their 3008 with no price compromises. I see more of these on the road than DS3 which is probably because I live in a town not traffic challenged and so there is no great need for citadines, however smart.
    On the other hand I had to vist the Paris 16th earlier in the month and had a short walk between the Embassy I was visiting and a main road to get a taxi. If you had been a tourist you might well have concluded that the downsizing is a myth and that the most popular French car was a black C6 which was neck and neck with equally black Mercedes. That quarter really highlighted the dangers of jumping to conclusions about car popularity in France as seen from a short Paris tour.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    What is the PSA offering for China?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    "Peugeot presented at the Shanghai Motor Show its new 508 model developed specifically for China, following the success of the European version, which exceeds by 20% sales targets. Peugeot said that one of every two units of its 508 model will be industrialized and marketed in China, bringing annual sales of this car in China market at 65,000 units."

    "The 508 joins a host of other new Peugeot models that have recently been launched onto the Chinese market: Peugeot 207 (hatchback and sedan), 207 CC, 308 CC, 308 SW, 408, 3008, and very soon the Peugeot RCZ. "

    "Shanghai January 10 (Gasgoo.com) French automaker Citroen's Chinese joint venture with Dongfeng Motor Corp. has achieved its full-year sales target for 2010 thanks to demand for the Citroen C5 Saloon, and plans to launch seven new models in China in the next five years, the Beijing News reports, citing the company's General Manager Wei Wenqing.

    Dongfeng Citroen, part of Dongfeng Peugeot Citroen Automobile Company Ltd. (DPCA), expected to sell 200,000 vehicles last year, and was pleased to have received orders for more than 220,000 vehicles as of December 31. That is 37.5% higher than last November and 60% than last October, and even doubled the 2008 figure, Wei said.

    In the first eleven months of 2010, Dongfeng Citroen saw its vehicle sales grow 42.4% from a year earlier, in excess of the industry average of 32%, he said, adding the company's optimization of product line-up has contributed to the good performance.

    Asked if the company has any plans to launch new models in the future, Wei said Dongfeng Citroen will focus on strengthening its core technology in the long run, and will put seven models on the domestic market before 2015."

    "The cooperation between the PSA and the Changan Automobile Group produced a series of premium model in the city, or DS9 is one of the cars: The components of the same design developed for the Citroen model in China, “said Olivier Gregoire Automotive News China, however, he did. that nothing about this model will be ready when and if it is relevant for the European market.

    A seven-speed transmission of dual-clutch gearbox. V6 driving the front wheels, while the 40 hp electric motor kW/55 (effectively increasing rapidly “” 95 horses) moving the rear wheels. This system worked together on the machine or separately. Metropolis can run in a little town in traffic a mile and completely free of emissions."

    etc etc etc
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    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Your in the epicentre there Gerry.What do you make of the 508?

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    Fellow Frogger! degruch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    What is the PSA offering for China?
    Blue Tata utes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Peugeot said that one of every two units of its 508 model will be industrialized and marketed in China,
    Hi Gerry
    What does this mean - have they invented a new word for built? what happens to the other 50% are they to be sold into world market in general or do they have particular targets. I've just been in Asia and ran across the NAZA - with Engineered by Peugeot slapped on its bum. is this part of the Chinese expansion or a totally different exercise by PSA?
    Those people that say I know - generally don't.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    I think we've already been through the "who made this car" routine on another thread. The sad or not so sad fact is that design houses do design cars that are made by people other than themselves and I think that is not a bad thing. I drive a car designed in France, engineered in Japan and built in Korea, but it still has a Diamond badge on it. What more could I ask? That it was built in Brazil, maybe? Like a Mercedes Benz?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney View Post
    Your in the epicentre there Gerry.What do you make of the 508?
    No comment; the epicentre is apparently Shanghai, which is nearer to you.
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Boulton View Post
    Hi Gerry
    What does this mean - have they invented a new word for built? what happens to the other 50% are they to be sold into world market in general or do they have particular targets. I've just been in Asia and ran across the NAZA - with Engineered by Peugeot slapped on its bum. is this part of the Chinese expansion or a totally different exercise by PSA?
    I assume that they mean assembled. As in the French factory the components come from global purchasing tempered by price/transport costs trade-offs. Generally speaking these large companies have got pretty smart at imposing their quality standards anywhere on the globe. I have lost that illuminating image of the C5 that showed the major component sourcing.
    The NAZA group includes Peugeot in Malaysia; for the story see
    http://www.naza.com.my/
    In India I rode in a Logan assembled by Mahindra with a Renault lozenge at the front and a Renault badge at the rear. I see the same car on the roads here, where it is now badged Dacia on the front and Logan at the back with "by Renault" in small letters.

    It is all marketing and logistics. With PSA the core management decisions are made in France while the car designs and implementation are done where the business dictates. In Renault it is similar but with some Japanese sharing of strategy and perhaps Daimler Benz now having a say.

    Now, the DS - that was a FRENCH car !
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  10. #10
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    How is your Insight going Gerry?

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    It is a complete non event. I get in, turn the key and let it drive me where it thinks I ought to go. So far (11,000k) no service, no repairs, no warranty claims. I will have one though, when I get around to it. One of the gas struts on the rear door has a plating fault at the top of the rod and some spots of corrosion are starting to break through. The first service is one year or 30,000, whichever comes first.
    No oil consumption, no coolant loss and very low brake wear, as I usually predict well enough ahead that the regenerative system does the work. In spite of all the computer management of acceleration and braking in the congested traffic that is a feature of nearly all my travels, it is not spectacularly economical. It has averaged 5.8 l/100k over the total ownership time, running on low octane unleaded or E10.
    The voice recognition on the phone system is a bit iffy. It doesn't like my Aussie accent when I speak French and when set to English it handles the numbers OK, but the address book, which is mostly French names it struggles with.
    It can be driven for fun but it is rather pointless, better to buy a sports car and forget the ecological footprint.

    Meanwhile, Panahrd restoration proceeds slowly but will happen.
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post

    [...]

    In India I rode in a Logan assembled by Mahindra with a Renault lozenge at the front and a Renault badge at the rear. I see the same car on the roads here, where it is now badged Dacia on the front and Logan at the back with "by Renault" in small letters.

    [...]
    All Logans sourced from Romania have that badging. Or at least all of those I have spotted in Germany/Austria.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    It is a complete non event. I get in, turn the key and let it drive me where it thinks I ought to go. So far (11,000k) no service, no repairs, no warranty claims. I will have one though, when I get around to it. One of the gas struts on the rear door has a plating fault at the top of the rod and some spots of corrosion are starting to break through. The first service is one year or 30,000, whichever comes first.
    No oil consumption, no coolant loss and very low brake wear, as I usually predict well enough ahead that the regenerative system does the work. In spite of all the computer management of acceleration and braking in the congested traffic that is a feature of nearly all my travels, it is not spectacularly economical. It has averaged 5.8 l/100k over the total ownership time, running on low octane unleaded or E10.
    The voice recognition on the phone system is a bit iffy. It doesn't like my Aussie accent when I speak French and when set to English it handles the numbers OK, but the address book, which is mostly French names it struggles with.
    It can be driven for fun but it is rather pointless, better to buy a sports car and forget the ecological footprint.

    Meanwhile, Panahrd restoration proceeds slowly but will happen.
    According to the local Honda website you must be a flagrant leadfoot, as they list urban consumption at 4.9L/100km! Some 15% better than what you are getting. If the same goes for the CO2 grammes per whatever it's not looking good for the old Honda Instep! A small weight penalty of a few tonnes of battery probably doesn't help in spite of the excitement created by the media produced small ecological footprint. I think your current car would be struggling to beat a plain ordinary 70kw diesel in performance, fuel economy and longevity, don't you think?
    Last edited by Kim Luck; 28th April 2011 at 11:26 PM. Reason: forgot something....
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! degruch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    It can be driven for fun but it is rather pointless, better to buy a sports car and forget the ecological footprint.
    Get rid of the plastic coated Honda lead box, drive your Panhard, and the environment will thank you.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    According to the local Honda website you must be a flagrant leadfoot, as they list urban consumption at 4.9L/100km! Some 15% better than what you are getting. If the same goes for the CO2 grammes per whatever it's not looking good for the old Honda Instep! A small weight penalty of a few tonnes of battery probably doesn't help in spite of the excitement created by the media produced small ecological footprint. I think your current car would be struggling to beat a plain ordinary 70kw diesel in performance, fuel economy and longevity, don't you think?
    That is what they claim here, but the press agrees with me. I am anything but lead footed, running the car in its economic mode and limiting acceleration where possible to the optimised level on the speed regulator. The test cycle is far removed from real traffic conditions.
    Last edited by gerry freed; 29th April 2011 at 04:56 AM. Reason: typo
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by degruch View Post
    Get rid of the plastic coated Honda lead box, drive your Panhard, and the environment will thank you.
    The Panhard is too valuable to use for everyday transport and the Honda does it so much better.
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  17. #17
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I'm guessing Gerry you wouldn't buy another one then?

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney View Post
    I'm guessing Gerry you wouldn't buy another one then?
    My strategy was to hold onto the C5 until I could buy an EV, as my last car. The C5 became uneconomic to maintain and just not reliable enough, so it had to go before they were available.
    The Honda is of such a quality that I believe it will last the 10 year battery warranty without serious repair costs. As that is about my life expectancy as well, it fits nicely. It is very unlikely that I buy another new car. It is the easiest car I have ever driven and as my reflexes slow and sight dims it is proving a smart choice but far removed from the fun of throwing a DS through the virages.
    I might buy another Panhard as they are a definite French motoring experience of the 1950"s or even a DS.
    The insurance renewal for my old vehicles came yesterday and I was delighted to see that my two VeloSolex are covered for towing a trailer up to 750 kgms. Maybe this is an answer to my low cost reliable transport needs.
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