European Commission to Ban cars from Cities
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  1. #1
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    Icon6 European Commission to Ban cars from Cities

    The European Commission has announced plans to bring in a Single European Transport Era, Enforcing a profound shift in transport patterns for passengers by 2050, mandating that 50% of all journeys above 186 miles should be by rail and zero cars, lorrys' on city roads.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/2...rk/#more-36847





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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    We could have a bit of a problem when we become part of Europe, which is what seems to be on the agenda of a lot of mixed up blue with yellow people who want us to emulate that model. There is a consensus that the oil will run out (by enough to cause BIG wars) by 2050 anyway, which means a shift to some other form of transport is inevitable. What is not clear is what will happen when oil really does get scarce. I'd be the first to start an old fashioned "working" horse stud! Just think! Your beer delivered by Draught Horses! Who'd of thought?
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    JBN
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    I am not really interested. In 2050, I would be 104 if I lived that long.

    Sounds more like a problem for the undertaker - hearse, train, horse and cart or just a backyard BBQ.

    John

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    Hmmm...that report has more that a hint of 'WTF' vibe about it, not particularly in depth. I'd like to know (a) whether the plan is coming from a credible source and (b) what its proposed goal is. As it is targeting fossil fuel powered vehicles, it appears to be pollution that is the target - so why add the seemingly unrelated (and random) 186 mile cap on long distance travel? Won't we have non-fossil fuelled long distance travel in the future? Sounds like a practical joke to me.

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    It's genuine, see
    http://ec.europa.eu/transport/index_en.htm

    and much in line with the trends in French car usage and hence design.
    It is an EU wish list which eventually could be used to formulate a European Directive to member States.
    Then it will need national legislation to locally enforce.
    It defines a scenario and strategy so that members can address the issues of how they possibly fund the infrastructure changes in public transport from sluggish economies.

    Europe is at least doing some scenario planning. Has Australia got an integrated transport strategy or any mechanism for creating one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Europe is at least doing some scenario planning. Has Australia got an integrated transport strategy or any mechanism for creating one?
    No - we still have political leaders that think if they cover their eyes and ears, all the climate problems will somehow go away.

    State Governments control roads and (most) rail. They are too busy looking over the border and claiming the other state got more money to actually plan a national anything. As proof - how long is it taking to develop a national school curriculum?
    Save the earth, it's the only planet with chocolate.

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Default Railways in 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by 2353 View Post
    No - we still have political leaders that think if they cover their eyes and ears, all the climate problems will somehow go away.

    State Governments control roads and (most) rail. They are too busy looking over the border and claiming the other state got more money to actually plan a national anything. As proof - how long is it taking to develop a national school curriculum?
    Successive state and federal governments have caved in over many many years to the interests of the Ansetts, Abeles and Fox's and others amongst us to successfully reduce railways in Australia to just a little bit better than a joke.

    Studying maps of the rail network in Victoria in the 1900's shows that there was no need for road transport to cover more than 80km in any direction from a rail depot before striking another rail depot. Since then, thousands of miles of critical infrastructure and more importantly, rail reservations have been given over to other public uses or worse still sold off completely.

    The transport moguls have crueled any chance of railways making a a comeback in this country, so that by the time oil runs out for road transport they'll be laughing at us. It's not improbable that the road transport industry would be protected whilst you and I will have fuel rationing. No further rail business is on the cards, so invest in horses!
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    If you want to appreciate the issues of multimodal urban transport, look at the situation in San Francisco
    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=NINOxRxze9k
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    Oh, it's a White Paper...who said this was serious?

    I'm transfixed by the '186 mile' stipulation? What happened to the metric system? Why 186 miles? Why not 187 miles? (EDIT: I see, initial news report was US - though I can't find a distance mentioned in the paper, or PAP-R).

    I would have thought by 2050, oil high oil prices would be almost welcome in Europe, as the most effective way (financial) of reducing heavy traffic and reliance on fossil fuels...especially given traffic congestion! Congestion is something a mass proliferation of trendy electric personal transport modules won't fix.

    Not that I'm bagging the concept, just the execution is a little clumsy.

    Additionally, what is an effective solution for Europe, is not necessarily a solution for Australia...you've obviously been here for a long time Gerry, it looks like Mad Max out here now.

    Anyways, Australia is the least of the worlds worries...what's India's transport solution? Compressed air Tata's?
    Last edited by degruch; 30th March 2011 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Edit added, and dig at India...again

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    Quote Originally Posted by degruch View Post
    Oh, it's a White Paper...who said this was serious?

    I'm transfixed by the '186 mile' stipulation? What happened to the metric system? Why 186 miles? Why not 187 miles? (EDIT: I see, initial news report was US - though I can't find a distance mentioned in the paper, or PAP-R).

    I would have thought by 2050, oil high oil prices would be almost welcome in Europe, as the most effective way (financial) of reducing heavy traffic and reliance on fossil fuels...especially given traffic congestion! Congestion is something a mass proliferation of trendy electric personal transport modules won't fix.

    Not that I'm bagging the concept, just the execution is a little clumsy.

    Additionally, what is an effective solution for Europe, is not necessarily a solution for Australia...you've obviously been here for a long time Gerry, it looks like Mad Max out here now.

    Anyways, Australia is the least of the worlds worries...what's India's transport solution? Compressed air Tata's?
    Curry power!
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    Icon12 Follow the buck, theres got to be something for them!!

    By that time I wont be worrying, but if we put all our scientists and inventors to work now, we'd have thorium fusion reactors minaturized for personal transport and in universal acceptance if they were untaxed to the individual using them.

    If we work hard now and tell the politicians to shove their taxes where the sun don't shine but I'll bet that the European commission would not go down that path, even if it was really saving the world for future generations.


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    Given that in 2050, most European governments will be Muslim controlled, France will be under a Caliph and have Sharia law, I expect the humble donkey will will makes its return.

    In Australia, I would expect a resurgence in coastal shipping, given that 90% of the population live along the coast. I expect the Pacific Highway will not have progressed much by 2050, judging on past performance. One could argue that in Australia we have never thrown too much money at the road network, perhaps because our politicians are far more astute than we realise, and knew they would be backing a dead horse anyway, when the petrol runs out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by degruch View Post
    Oh, it's a White Paper...who said this was serious?

    I'm transfixed by the '186 mile' stipulation? What happened to the metric system? Why 186 miles? ...
    300 kilometres = 186 miles

    Now, why 300km? 'cause it's nice round number?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Given that in 2050, most European governments will be Muslim controlled, France will be under a Caliph and have Sharia law, I expect the humble donkey will will makes its return.

    In Australia, I would expect a resurgence in coastal shipping, given that 90% of the population live along the coast. I expect the Pacific Highway will not have progressed much by 2050, judging on past performance. One could argue that in Australia we have never thrown too much money at the road network, perhaps because our politicians are far more astute than we realise, and knew they would be backing a dead horse anyway, when the petrol runs out.

    John
    Ahem.

    If anything, considering current demographic evolution in Europe it will be the UK govt that will be muslim (i.e. pakistani), not the french. The french govt will be formed by the english pensioners retired all over the country.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimOzSF View Post
    300 kilometres = 186 miles

    Now, why 300km? 'cause it's nice round number?
    Delfin Realty are planning on bringing urban sprawl to Europe, making most small cities 300kms across, Westfield to Westfield???

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    Default Nostadamus Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Given that in 2050, most European governments will be Muslim controlled, France will be under a Caliph and have Sharia law, I expect the humble donkey will will makes its return.

    In Australia, I would expect a resurgence in coastal shipping, given that 90% of the population live along the coast. I expect the Pacific Highway will not have progressed much by 2050, judging on past performance. One could argue that in Australia we have never thrown too much money at the road network, perhaps because our politicians are far more astute than we realise, and knew they would be backing a dead horse anyway, when the petrol runs out.

    John
    You're forgetting that a very large number of Muslim people live just a little north of Australia. Some time back we had to have a "Confrontation" to stop their expansionist policies. I was part of it. In the interim they haven't gone away. I never once suspected that politicians collectively were "astute". Maybe the odd individual, but Coastal Shipping? Well.... maybe in dugout canoes!
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    India's present issue is road finance and construction. They are expanding their private car fleet very late in the history of personal motorised transport. They are also, as heavy industry operators, suffering from serious urban pollution. Tata are not stupid and are exploring electric car design as they may well leapfrog fossil fuel car fleet expansion and go electric relatively early. This is similar to what happened as they switched to mobile phones, long before they had high penetration of fixed line phones. Making an electric car is a great technical college project but it is a long way from the multi billion dollar investments being made to scale up designs for mass production.
    Once again nuclear is the only existing practical technology for overcoming their chronic electricity shortage without intolerable pollution implications. The French are lobbying hard to get market share. We have to hope that there are some inland sites available well away from tsunami risks.
    For many years now, Agra, the site of the Taj Mahal has suffered from pollution that threatens the stone work and they have been building a public transport network of electric vehicles for a decade to protect a globally important monument. I quote from
    http://iguide.travel/Agra/Getting_Around
    <<
    Tongas, electric buses and electric tempos are readily available, and the best way to get to the Taj where no cars are allowed. Auto-rickshaws and cycle-rickshaws are available every where, remember to agree on fares clearly in advance.
    >>

    No, I haven't been back to Aus for 8 years and I suspect that our personal circumstances will prevent us from ever going back.
    I was amused to read how much faster around Bathurst a F1 car was relative to the US inspired Foldens. Sorry I wasn't there to see that.
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    Well, India did bring us the REVA (aka G-Wizz).

    Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, lapping Falcodores in an F1 car around Bathurst didn't drag the bogan dollar to the Australian Grand Prix, as hoped. Maybe they'll move the race from Albert Park to Caroline Springs for 2012?

    Always look forward to more news on the future of transport. Oh, did the Heliuez car finally die, or are there still hopes of reviving it? Seems to me as if the majors will overtake its development before release anyway.

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    After all the politicking died down, the company was split in two with separate ownership. Heuliez continues as a specialist coachbuilder.

    The electric vehicle range is now called Mia, has been restyled and is being managed in a separate enterprise 31% owned by the regional government controlled by Ségolène Royal.
    They hope to deliver 6000 this year starting in the summer. Customers include the car sharing schemes of La Rochelle and Nice.

    The CEO has a vision of creating an Apple like brand. Will it survive when mass marketing starts??????
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    Fellow Frogger! degruch's Avatar
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    That's encouraging! Shame they're maketing it as a 'fad' product though - but I guess it's the best way to make a start. Interesting, as it could be the first commercial realisation of in-wheel electric motors, something that has the potential to turn small car design on its head IMO.

    Will the tyres survive 40kg loads in regular useage???

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I am not really interested. In 2050, I would be 104 if I lived that long.

    Sounds more like a problem for the undertaker - hearse, train, horse and cart or just a backyard BBQ.

    John
    ... or your children....?

    "The child is the father of the man" quote Willie W.

    ALL of us, both young and old, have a responsibility for looking after our environment IMO.

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    We are stuck with the past but the future is up to us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by degruch View Post
    That's encouraging! Shame they're maketing it as a 'fad' product though - but I guess it's the best way to make a start. Interesting, as it could be the first commercial realisation of in-wheel electric motors, something that has the potential to turn small car design on its head IMO.

    Will the tyres survive 40kg loads in regular useage???
    I believe Le Tourneau earthmoving equipment made very successful use of wheel electric motors carrying hundreds of tons from about 1955. They subsequently switched to hydraulics for whatever reason but I have seen the diesel electric versions in the flesh working.
    Last edited by Kim Luck; 31st March 2011 at 08:24 PM. Reason: forgot I
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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    The product concerned is the Active Wheel of Michelin see
    http://objectifterre.over-blog.org/a...-25528711.html
    which is being made in China
    When I first saw it in 2009, I thought it would give a chance for small car manufacturers to enter the market. Since then the major global car makers have invested heavily in EVs and as they own the distribution networks, there is very little window open for new players.
    Perhaps Mia can find a specialised niche in communal transport and some new entrants in China and India create local markets. Perhaps also Mia could be bought out by a big player to short cut development but I guess that it is now a little late.
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    Fellow Frogger! degruch's Avatar
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    ^^^ That's the beastie! I don't suppose Michelin are giving them away? I'd love to add them to a car I'm working on.

    There's definately a future for the concept, if not the product itself. Ironic, it'll will bring back the split rim, for those who love nostalgia...I'm assuming you don't keep two 40kg spares onboard, changing tyres could be a bit of a chore.

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