Tyres - Michelin v Bridgestone v ?
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  1. #1
    UFO
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    Default Tyres - Michelin v Bridgestone v ?

    At the risk of starting a tyre debate, I'm going to request feedback from AFers...

    The C5 is soon in need of new tyres. It has the 18" wheels, running Michelin Primacy 245/45/R18s 100W, so an unusual tyre size for the Aus market. Lucky me...

    I was walking past a Beaurepaires the other day and got a price on Dunlop something or others of $480 each - try not coughing when you get a quote like that.

    Anyway, today I phoned trusty Tempe Tyres and asked Zac for a price on the Michelin Primacy. He asked if I was sitting down - which I was. $530 each fitted.

    Anyway I also asked what else he has available and he mentioned a basic Bridgestone at $250, Kumhos at $180 and Bridgestone Potenza RE050A at $380 - a more reasonable price I suppose.

    Pirelli don't seem to have anything in that line, I've never been a great fan of Goodyear, I can't quickly find anything useful on Continental Tyres' site and I have used them in the past too (non Cit) and was not impressed.

    Now you may have guessed I am leaning towards the Bridgestone Potenza and I noted that the DS3 we leased in France last year had the same type of tyres. Apparently Citroen have got a bit jack of Michelin's pricing and I can understand why.

    The funds are in credit in the lease account attached to the C5, so there is enough to cover either the Potenzas or Michelin Primacy, but I just need to be convinced which way to go.

    I now (bravely) open the discussion...

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    The VE SS comodore runs the same size tyre (not sure about the load rating), so choice and price should be OK.

    Check the tyre placard and see what the minimum load rating is.

    I can't see a C5 weighing more than a Commodore???

    These could be an option for $1000 for a set.

    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Yokohama-Adva...item43a3d85f93

    I had these on my BMW for a while and they were far better than I expected, particuarly the ride side of things. (these are in America but are available locally)

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-NEW...Q5fAccessories

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    I've got Bridgestone Adrenalin RE0001 on my Focus and they are the best tyres I've ever driven on. They are available in 245/45R18 100W. I've not heard a screech from them... and they grip very well in the wet.

    The RE050A is the next step down but I think the 207 GTi and GT came with them as one of the potential supplied tyres when new.

    I would go the Bridgestone...

    At that price, have you considered buying from the US and getting them delivered? RE050A in 100W are $252 each in the US. I believe shipping would be another $200 or so. I'm not sure how this 'credit in the lease account' works.
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...er=18&x=52&y=2

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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Wow, I thought I'd seen it all

    Anyway, I have RE050As on the 207 - on to my second set and will probably go for a third soon. The first two sets were made in France, for what it's worth.

    For info, Bridgestone market the Adrenalin as high performance and the RE050 and 050A as ultra high performance, so not a step down according to them, but I've never tried the Adrenalin. I think they are a bit cheaper and don't have as many "weird" sizes, I suppose. They are certainly well spoken of.

    I wouldn't say the RE050A is a particularly quiet tyre (especially post-30k, where it develops a bit of a rumble at low speed) but it's a tyre I'm happy with, it doesn't squeal around corners and nowhere near as noisy as a Pirelli usually is.
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    The Potenza RE050A was Bridgestone's flagship sports road tyre (not including track tyres) and was designed to compete with the likes of Dunlop SportMaxx GT, Michelin Pilot Sport 2, Pirelli P Zero, Toyo Proxes T1 Sport, etc. It has since been replaced by the Potenza S001 in 2010 but that shouldn't diminish their performance.

    The Primacy HP is more of a normal road tyre. Bridgestone's equivalent would be the Turanza ER300, or Toyo Proxes C1S.

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    I have a set of the 001 Adrenaline tyres, and they're on the set of rims we use least often. Good in the dry, great in the wet, horrendous on loose surfaces. Comparing to Michelin Exalto PE2, they're a lower spec tyre. (the PE2 sat under the PS2, which were both under the pilot sport cup range - but both have now been replaced with the Pilot Sport 3)

    Tyres are something that usually end up being "reassuringly expensive" - but it really depends what you want from them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    At the risk of starting a tyre debate, I'm going to request feedback from AFers...

    The C5 is soon in need of new tyres. It has the 18" wheels, running Michelin Primacy 245/45/R18s 100W, so an unusual tyre size for the Aus market. Lucky me...

    I was walking past a Beaurepaires the other day and got a price on Dunlop something or others of $480 each - try not coughing when you get a quote like that.

    Anyway, today I phoned trusty Tempe Tyres and asked Zac for a price on the Michelin Primacy. He asked if I was sitting down - which I was. $530 each fitted.
    At equal risk of ridicule, I'm finding the cheapest Bob Jane Specials go pretty well on the CX. I think the last ones were under $100 each, fitted. Recently I put some expensive Pirellis on the BX (about $125 each I think). My only concern is reasonable stopping on wet bitumen, the main risk in Perth.
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    We too are blessed with a car that has a not so common wheel size....

    Ok, its a Viva wagon and I wouldn't even pretend that it's anywhere near the same league as the C5, but when the Hankooks were getting to the best before date, we replaced them with BFGoodrich....which is owned by Michelin...

    They are noisier than the Hankooks, which were particularly quiet, but they do hang on well and provide a good ride and grip....

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    Whilst enjoying my morning cornflakes, I checked out one of my usual haunts - Autoexpress.co.uk....

    ...and you wouldn't believe it, but they've tested 225/40/18's....very close in size to what you're after Craig....

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product...tyre_test.html

    Interestingly, the Hankooks do very well in all tests accept aquaplaning....noting that this is a British test and they don't tend to have corse chip surfaces like we do (which drain better), they could be worth a look....and they come in the right size

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    Does anyone else wonder why a car such as a C5 with a whole 120kw/340nm and 0-100 time of 10.2 seconds needs ultra high performance tyres?

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa View Post
    Does anyone else wonder why a car such as a C5 with a whole 120kw/340nm and 0-100 time of 10.2 seconds needs ultra high performance tyres?

    ...especially in a country that is mainly speed limited to 110kmh...




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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Were talking big heavy diesel slugomatic right ??

    Go the Kumhos, I've used them a few times in the distant past and was more than impressed. Is there really a "poor" tyre made these days ??

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    Fellow Frogger! Stuart Dammery's Avatar
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    Shanes point about no bad tyres, seems pretty sane to me. WTF??????

    The Xantia came with Michies, cool I guess, and the CX runs ( as did my last CX) with cheaper, slightly smaller profile tyres than recommended purchased and fitted for $120 each from Jax.
    They have stopped in the wet perfectly...more due to the awesome car and driver

    As I don't give two hoots about tyres I have nothing more to add.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronhic View Post
    Interestingly, the Hankooks do very well in all tests accept aquaplaning....noting that this is a British test and they don't tend to have corse chip surfaces like we do (which drain better), they could be worth a look....and they come in the right size
    I have just replaced the front tyres on my Xantia with some Continentals (Comfort Cushion 5 - $189). The previous Korean/Taiwanese/Chinese Roadstone tyres DID aquaplane. My criteria for tyre selection is based on safety rather than longevity, coupled with what I can afford.

    1. Doesn't aquaplane - usually has wide, deep longitudinal grooves
    2. Grips well in both dry and wet conditions
    3. Has a short stopping distance
    4. Not noisy
    5. Not a harsh ride
    Not interested in wear rates. Generally quicker wearing tyres are grippier. Those that last forever may end up with poor roadholding as the rubber ages and hardens. The cost of tyres compared to panel beating, hospital costs or funeral expenses is relatively cheap.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Dammery View Post
    Shanes point about no bad tyres, seems pretty sane to me. WTF??????

    The Xantia came with Michies, cool I guess, and the CX runs ( as did my last CX) with cheaper, slightly smaller profile tyres than recommended purchased and fitted for $120 each from Jax.
    They have stopped in the wet perfectly...more due to the awesome car and driver

    As I don't give two hoots about tyres I have nothing more to add.
    Having owned a CX which ran both Michelin XVS and Michelin TRX tyres, I can asure you there is a vast difference between their performance, usually at just the time you don't need to know.

    I appreciate that you don't care about tyres and have nothing to add. Actually, R.I.P. is usually added by someone else.

    John

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    Fellow Frogger! Stuart Dammery's Avatar
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    I do care about silly comments

    I had to come to an immediate halt last winter....wet road, not much space and on a slight curve.

    The CX stopped on a dime!

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Dammery View Post
    I do care about silly comments

    I had to come to an immediate halt last winter....wet road, not much space and on a slight curve.

    I think I saw you on the side of the road just after it happened, waiting for the tilt tray.
    Jo

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    Fellow Frogger! Stuart Dammery's Avatar
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    good memory Jo....unfortunately that was the connector points LOL
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I've fitted the cheapest tyres I could find to the CX and Xantia ... due to the wierd size they use and the HUGE cost of the tyre. You know, other than the first set on the CX having "firm" sidewalls.... They were actually very good.

    The last time I put michelins on a CX ... I swore "never again". The most expensive yet mediocre tyre I've ever had under a CX. You know it's been 15years and I've so far succeeded in never again buying michies for the CX.

    Now the BX, I put michelins under that (as it's a common size tyre so they weren't insanely expensive). They were no better than the worn out tyres on the car. The new Toyo's that replaced them were vastly better in everyway.

    I'm not someone that's gentle on tyres either

    One of the wort tyres I've ever driven on is the TRX that people rave about. I reckon a racing slick wouldn't have much less grip than one in the wet.

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    As a suggestion have you tried a slightly different size. Depending on the state, you can change the size of the tyre by a small amount to get a "common" size. Our original fitment Conti 205/55R17's became Pirelli P7 215/55R17's recently which (in Queensland anyway) is perfectly legal and saved us around $250 a corner. The original Contis were slightly cheaper than the 2011 version - but were also discontinued a couple of years ago.
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa View Post
    I would go the Bridgestone...

    At that price, have you considered buying from the US and getting them delivered? RE050A in 100W are $252 each in the US. I believe shipping would be another $200 or so. I'm not sure how this 'credit in the lease account' works.
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...er=18&x=52&y=2
    Side question, DeKa: would your vehicle inspection laws allow for tires intended for the US? We all know Bridgestone isn't going to make tires to specs that are wildly different between markets, but we also know that laws and regulations can cause a bit of head-scratching.
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    Hotrodelectric,
    I don't know, but I do know 4 or 5 people who have imported tyres, taken them to a tyre shop here and had them fitted. The more expensive the tyres, the better off you are.

  23. #23
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    Good thread Craig as I'm looking for 17 inchers for my 308

    I did the phone arounds and Jax were the best with Michie HP Premacy at IIRC 285 each.

    But over the road from my work they sell secondhand tyres. So I ambled over there and they have a set of Potenzas RE050 for $100 each fitted and balanced.


    The tyres are from Germany or Japan and according to the guy they're a 'season' old. The original oweners put the tyres on for summer and get newies when winter comes and another new set when winter arrives. Bunkum or not???? He showed me some winter tyres and they certainly are different.

    He said tyres were 10% used. I thought they were a little more gone but at least a third the price of new ones and with 80% life left seems good valuel

    I usually wouldnt look twice a used tyres but my son bought a set of Pirellis P400 about 3 years ago from this store and has had no trouble.
    Anyone else bought secondhand tyres?

    I am still deciding...might go over and give the set a good once over and compare dotcodes for similar batches


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Anyway I also asked what else he has available and he mentioned a basic Bridgestone at $250, Kumhos at $180 and Bridgestone Potenza RE050A at $380 - a more reasonable price I suppose.
    AUD 380 is a decent price for the RE050A (must be because 245/45 R18 is used by Commodores) and you can tell by comparing the price on Tire Rack. If you add shipping (USD 250 to 300) and local fitting costs, the difference isn't too great, so I think you're getting it at a decent price, especially considering our dollar is still at parity with the U.S.

    Ridiculously, the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport is available in 245/45 ZR18 (100Y) XL. The brackets around the load and speed index means the tyre has a maximum speed in excess of 300 km/h, and is probably the ultimate road tyre at the moment, so if you're going to blow $$$ on Michelins, it might as well be these.

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEEE View Post
    I have a set of the 001 Adrenaline tyres, and they're on the set of rims we use least often. Good in the dry, great in the wet, horrendous on loose surfaces. Comparing to Michelin Exalto PE2, they're a lower spec tyre. (the PE2 sat under the PS2, which were both under the pilot sport cup range - but both have now been replaced with the Pilot Sport 3)
    Michelin have altered the hierarchy a bit. The replacement for the Pilot Exalto and Pilot Preceda, is the Pilot Sport 3 (which is like a PS2 but with improved wet performance). And the replacement for the Pilot Sport PS2 is the insane Pilot Super Sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronhic View Post
    Whilst enjoying my morning cornflakes, I checked out one of my usual haunts - Autoexpress.co.uk....

    ...and you wouldn't believe it, but they've tested 225/40/18's....very close in size to what you're after Craig....

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product...tyre_test.html

    Interestingly, the Hankooks do very well in all tests accept aquaplaning....noting that this is a British test and they don't tend to have corse chip surfaces like we do (which drain better), they could be worth a look....and they come in the right size
    They liked the way the Bridgestones felt and handled in the dry and wet (even though it wasn't the fastest) and came 3rd in braking in the dry and wet, which is impressive. Aquaplaning was decent enough, but was penalised for its high rolling resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa View Post
    Does anyone else wonder why a car such as a C5 with a whole 120kw/340nm and 0-100 time of 10.2 seconds needs ultra high performance tyres?
    It's just the nature of the tyre size (245/45 R18). And I wouldn't categorise the original tyres as "ultra high performance", but it turns out that "ultra high performance" tyres happen to cheaper. Win/win.

    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    ...especially in a country that is mainly speed limited to 110kmh...
    You don't have to be travelling beyond the national speed limit to notice any differences in performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Is there really a "poor" tyre made these days ??
    More than you might think. Chinese tyres and wet performance are mutually exclusive at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Side question, DeKa: would your vehicle inspection laws allow for tires intended for the US? We all know Bridgestone isn't going to make tires to specs that are wildly different between markets, but we also know that laws and regulations can cause a bit of head-scratching.
    As long as the tyres are approved by any one the following bodies - DOT (U.S.) or ECE (E.U.) or ADR (Australia) - then they can be used here on public roads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decca View Post
    But over the road from my work they sell secondhand tyres. So I ambled over there and they have a set of Potenzas RE050 for $100 each fitted and balanced.

    The tyres are from Germany or Japan and according to the guy they're a 'season' old. The original oweners put the tyres on for summer and get newies when winter comes and another new set when winter arrives. Bunkum or not???? He showed me some winter tyres and they certainly are different.
    In certain parts of Central and Northern Europe it's standard practice, except that they keep their summer tyres on their alloys, whilst the winter tyres are on steels - they don't throw away their tyres at every changeover (how costly would that be!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Decca View Post
    He said tyres were 10% used. I thought they were a little more gone but at least a third the price of new ones and with 80% life left seems good value

    I usually wouldnt look twice a used tyres but my son bought a set of Pirellis P400 about 3 years ago from this store and has had no trouble.
    Anyone else bought secondhand tyres?

    I am still deciding...might go over and give the set a good once over and compare dotcodes for similar batches
    As with all used items, it's the history that matters. Unless you know what to look for I suppose it's just the luck of the draw, though if they aren't that old or haven't worn much, then maybe they're less likely to be dogdy.

    Make sure that whatever tyre you buy has the same load index as specified on the placard.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decca View Post
    Good thread Craig as I'm looking for 17 inchers for my 308

    I did the phone arounds and Jax were the best with Michie HP Premacy at IIRC 285 each.

    But over the road from my work they sell secondhand tyres. So I ambled over there and they have a set of Potenzas RE050 for $100 each fitted and balanced.


    The tyres are from Germany or Japan and according to the guy they're a 'season' old. The original oweners put the tyres on for summer and get newies when winter comes and another new set when winter arrives. Bunkum or not???? He showed me some winter tyres and they certainly are different.

    He said tyres were 10% used. I thought they were a little more gone but at least a third the price of new ones and with 80% life left seems good valuel

    I usually wouldnt look twice a used tyres but my son bought a set of Pirellis P400 about 3 years ago from this store and has had no trouble.
    Anyone else bought secondhand tyres?

    I am still deciding...might go over and give the set a good once over and compare dotcodes for similar batches


    Decca
    I have. Usually from wreckers (search out the spares) and have had zero issues.

    Our local Jax has a stock of tyres which are "too good" to scrap. I choose the 25% worn style and pay $100 a pair fitted and balanced. Last purchase was some top line Toyos for my daughters Honda Integra.

    The problem is getting 4 matching tyres. I've purchased twice now for my children's road hacks and matched tyres on axles and similar grip/performance front to rear.

    It makes sense provided you make an informed choice, especially for a car which is strictly transport and not particularly well loved with a youthful driver.

    I believe a good name brand secondhand tyre is better value (and far safer)than grip-less chinese rubbish.
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