Ford Falcon to be axed...
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  1. #1
    RJB
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    Default Ford Falcon to be axed...

    Ford Falcon to be axed...and Holden Commodore to go front drive...

    Thats what the March 2011 Wheels mag has suggested....

    The Falcon Wagon is gone already along with Fairlane and LTD... and changing consumer habits, rising fuel prices and lack of money in the US owned car manufacturers means the Ford Falcon could be long gone before the decade is over....

    The job loses in Oz are dissapointing but otherwise you can just buy a Mondeo and maybe Holden can build the next gen version of the Opel Vectra in Adelaide....

    Even the Yanks will have to down size with the proposed 2016 US CAFE standard where a range of cars have to average 6.6 litres per 100km or better..... after allowing for a few Ford F350 sales this would effectively mean everyone else would have to buy manual diesel Fiesta's.......

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    Fellow Frogger! degruch's Avatar
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    Australians have had almost 20 years to form a love affair with Mondeo's and Vectra's...don't think they'll be a replacement for anything.

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    Not surprising considering consumer demand is for smaller cars.

    Incidentally, yesterday i had os visitors who hired one of these new G??? Fords to drive around Australia. Leather , auto etc. big enough to live in it (not that they will). At home he has an Audi A6 turbo diesel but he thinks the Ford is a really good car.
    Had a drive around town and it is good and not wrong wheel drive but just not my type of car. I think they are good value for a big car.
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    There was a similar suggestion following the termination of the Green cars program (less payments to local car manufacturers).

    As tastes change, hard to imagine those 2 large cars seeing the same business as they used to.

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    Maybe they will all come to their collective senses and start making Renault 10s again...

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    Fellow Frogger! denxm's Avatar
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    Default falcadores

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    JBN
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    It is funny how the trend is towards smaller cars, but larger people.

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    i dont think axing the falcon is part of a trend to smaller cars. the mondeo doesnt seem significantly smaller. rather, the problem is the significant and completely wasted development costs of having an australian-only car.

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    1000+ Posts Renomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by degruch View Post
    Australians have had almost 20 years to form a love affair with Mondeo's and Vectra's...don't think they'll be a replacement for anything.
    I read an article in the paper over the weekend that said the medium car market is shrinking.
    People are either going to small cars or to SUVs, not the medium cars inbetween, such as Mondeos and Vectras........except for the Camry!
    It will be interesting to see how the Holden Cruze fits in once local production starts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    It is funny how the trend is towards smaller cars, but larger people.

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  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! degruch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    i dont think axing the falcon is part of a trend to smaller cars. the mondeo doesnt seem significantly smaller. rather, the problem is the significant and completely wasted development costs of having an australian-only car.
    I'd say you've hit the nail on the head there Alexander. It doesn't seem that Ford considers the Falcon a solution on their worldwide markets, so local sales alone couldn't possibly justify development of a 100% Aussie Falcon in the future.

    Statesman, LTD and large wagon sales would now be going to the SUV market (or pinched by Lexus), but I don't think the big family sedan sales market is declining - I doubt Toyota is struggling to move Camry's. God help 'em if Ford try foist that horrible Taurus thing on us again though!

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    XTC
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    A base model Foulcan is 4.0ltr & almost 200kw ... and people complain about fuel costs??

    Well perhaps if they didn't expect the performance of a sports car in a family sedan then we'd see the kind of engines Europe has ... they don't have an issue selling a family car with a 2.0 or 2.2ltr diesel.

    If Ford tried that here with the Foulcan they'd be laughed out of the marketplace - by owners and the print press. See Wheels/Motors headline now ... "Ford Shocker ... new Falcan 2 secs slower than old model" - cause we all need to tow a boat or horse float and win traffic light drags.. right?

    There is a place for large fuel efficient family cars and wagons ... it's just our fuel prices are so ridiculous low compared to Europe we've been unwilling to change our habits or expectations. Time will change that, but it might be too late to save our large car industry sector.

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    RJB
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    Default 4 cyl Falcon

    ... there is a 4 cylinder (petrol) Falcon coming out soon... Ford marketing calls it "ecoboost"
    but A diesel would work better

    and remember the 4 cylinder Commodore.. the 1.9 litre used in the VC and VH in the early 80's... Holden hoped it was forgotten

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    XTC
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    Well I do hope it succeeds and isn't universally panned like the 4 pot Commodore was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    ... there is a 4 cylinder (petrol) Falcon coming out soon... Ford marketing calls it "ecoboost"
    but A diesel would work better

    and remember the 4 cylinder Commodore.. the 1.9 litre used in the VC and VH in the early 80's... Holden hoped it was forgotten
    good point.. the Econoboost motor was discussed here over a year ago, and it seems it is a turbo charged, direct injection, 2.5l motor, with at least the same power and torque as the 4.xl 6cyl, but with signficantly better fuel economy. as far as i could see, it isnt just a marketing thing.


    separately, however, is the mondeo a medium sized car? having seen one my impression was that it is virtually the same size as a falcon, with not dissimilar styling, so it seemed like an obvious replacement for the falcon. and without the space limitations of the transmission tunnel or diff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    separately, however, is the mondeo a medium sized car?
    When I looked at a Mondeo wagon a little while ago the dealer had it on ramps next to a Falcon. They looked almost identical in exterior dimensions.
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    Who actually buys a Commodore/Falcon besides fleet buyers (who won't be remorseful to move on to something else) and people who buy the go-faster versions? Not actually many, I would suspect.
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    We considered a Mondeo before we decided on the C5. The car is quite large inside - party space in the boot!

    Pajamas has the 2.5 turbo model and I have driven it. What a car!
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    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    I can understand Ford scrapping the Falcon when they are building the same size vehicle in the Territory. Why build two large vehicles?
    Now that the Territory is getting a diesel motor, surely this is the optimum vehicle for the taxi industry to turn to?
    If the territory is based on the Falcon surely they could also fit the diesel motor in the Falcon to stem the tide of oilers from other manufacturers?
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  20. #20
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    re: who buys commodores & falcons. when i last saw the breakdown from about 3 years ago, the commodore was the biggest selling car in oz IF you treat the 2wd and 4wd hilux as different cars. so a fair few real people buy them

    re: the ford Territory. without in any way justifying consumer behavior, the territory is a somewhat taller, heavier, crossover SUV and most are 4wd. so there is plenty of difference there in the world of car purchasing. given the choice i would think anyone would logically go for the territory, but fuel consumption may be a bit higher.

    re the mondeo dimensions: i did have a bit of a look and the latest dimensions i could find show the mondeo the same width as a falcon, about 100mm shorter, and in the vicinity of 100kg lighter. the weight difference would almost all be in the extra drivetrain, i would reckon. which does make me think the obvious successor for the falcon.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Ronhic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    re: who buys commodores & falcons. when i last saw the breakdown from about 3 years ago, the commodore was the biggest selling car in oz IF you treat the 2wd and 4wd hilux as different cars. so a fair few real people buy them

    re: the ford Territory. without in any way justifying consumer behavior, the territory is a somewhat taller, heavier, crossover SUV and most are 4wd. so there is plenty of difference there in the world of car purchasing. given the choice i would think anyone would logically go for the territory, but fuel consumption may be a bit higher.

    re the mondeo dimensions: i did have a bit of a look and the latest dimensions i could find show the mondeo the same width as a falcon, about 100mm shorter, and in the vicinity of 100kg lighter. the weight difference would almost all be in the extra drivetrain, i would reckon. which does make me think the obvious successor for the falcon.
    I can't back this up yet, but I believe that the Territory sales are fairly evenly split 4WD/Rear wheel drive...with a leaning towards rear wheel drive...

    ...also, without the Falcon, there will be no Territory as it is based on the Falcons platform and basic running gear....

    ....and lastly, the Territory, whilst slightly taller than a Falcon wagon is actually shorter...

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Default Towing capacity and boon docks repairs...

    SWMBO has her sights set or a cabriolet (I pushing for a Frog, Peugeot preferred) but my aging EF Foulcan wagon probably needs an update first.
    Whilst I currently don't tow a tandem with race cars on them it will happen in the next couple of years so I want something that can do it and still be half civilised in the daily grind.
    Fuel consumption is not a big issue as the round trip to work is 30 km but I like the 2300kg towing capacity of the Falcon wagon and/or Territory. Not fussed if they are diesel powered and as I'm not made of money second hand is the go.
    This narrows it down to a 4WD Territory with a 4 litre 6, not cutting edge but OK. Heavy weight 4WD's leave me cold as they are just so inefficient due to the bridge girder construction and the driveabilty of a old agricultural equipment.
    The other point is parts and repair when your away from home, I'd rather not risk being stuck just because I can't get a windscreen or a waterpump. Also the cost of normal consumables is so cheap it's not an issue.
    Yes I love my 504 and it will be used but more for touring not towing and it would kill me if I had to use it as a day-to-day hack and is damaged/crashed into or broken because I don't have a vehicle I can treat as a 'hack/whitegood'.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronhic View Post

    ...also, without the Falcon, there will be no Territory as it is based on the Falcons platform and basic running gear....
    ..
    you may be right in saying the above, but i wouldnt have thought that axing the falcon necessarily meant axing the platform. ford could still realise considerable cost savings by simply not having to develop the full vehicle which sits on the platform, without ditching all of it.

    i note that the WP entry on the Territory says this: "While many suspected that it would replace the Falcon wagon, the two models co-exist because the Territory is bought mainly by private buyers, the Falcon wagon by fleets.", which supports what was said above about fleets buying falcons.
    Last edited by alexander; 22nd February 2011 at 09:52 PM.

  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    This can't be a good thing surely ?? What else is as big inside as a falcan/commadore wagon, has really cheap parts, anyone can fix them ........... And the can tow more than a matchbox toy legally? Eg: those shitty window winder mechanisms fitted to modern cars. Would you rather < $200 for a falcadore or $700+ for a Citroen ?

    I just googled "mondeo tow capacity". 1200kg simply a joke... Given it's sold in Europe it'll probaly have 50kg or something equally insane as the towbar downweight. Another useless car. Give me the falcon wagon any day of the week. Lets not forget the weazy petrol motor they have in a car that's the size of a falcon wagon. Wow CX fuel economy without the performance. My old CX will do far better than 10L/100km on the highway Really 200Nm of torque in a huge wagon ?? To put this into perspective my 26year old stinky CX has about 300Nm ... But doesn't have to drag around a huge loaded wagon.

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    I did my appreticeship with Ford back in the late 70's and I remember the word was out when the XD was released (about 79/80) that it was going to be the last Aussie Falcon, from here on they would be US imports. Nothing to do with how good or bad the car is, market trends and anything like that, just simply, our population is just to small to justify a one off model.

    To my surprise it kept going, they did try to sell us that horrible US built Torus thing in the 90's and that was said to be the Falcon replacement but no one wanted it.

    From what I understand, unlike GMH who started exporting to the Middle east, UK, USA, NZ and South Africa Ford US wouldn't allow Ford Aust to export (except to NZ) so the Falcon as we know it is doomed.
    I'm really surprised it keeps going. If they rebadged the Mondeo as a Falcon I wonder how many would notice, probably the headlines would read first Aussie built hatchback.
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