French cities to ban cars.
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Default French cities to ban cars.

    An experiment is to be tried in 2012 in which SUV's,4X4, older diesel vehicles and other disproportionate polluters will be banned from 5 urban centres. These will be Paris, Lyon, Aix, Clermont and Grenoble. The details are open to public debate.

    Should encourage electric car rentals!

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Brilliant.

    Lets try that in Melbourne

    No wait, sorry - wont work. Too many dickless wonders who like the power trip and believe cars have no impact on the weather anyway...
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Germany has adopted for some time a system which limits access in the cities by Euro polution standards. The level has gone up and right now, only cars satisfying the latest Euro standard are allowed in the "city". Soon cars with Euro four (?) or less are not going to be allowed anywhere in the major cities. The aim is to have zero emission vehicles only in the cities soon.

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    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    Brilliant.

    Lets try that in Melbourne

    No wait, sorry - wont work. Too many dickless wonders who like the power trip and believe cars have no impact on the weather anyway...
    Ban SUV's and 4X4's in Melbourne and the roads would be empty.
    David Cavanagh

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  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    That's OK, I'd just find myself a nice maichonics converted converted CX petrol turbo to drive then .... Possibly a SM or GTA Turbo or two as well.

    Perfect for ramming mega slow pretend electric cars out of the way with (especially when there batteries are flat from trying to heat or cool the cars interior on a warm or cold day ).

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    JBN
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    No problems for me. I'll just bolt the pedals back onto the 2CV.

    John

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    Jeez, John,

    Could you handle the increase in power?

    Seriously, I must stop putting shit on the mighty 2CV, or the Memsahib will give me a flogging.

    Regards,

    Fento

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    The aim is to have zero emission vehicles only in the cities soon.
    Thats a great ideal.
    How do the goods and services that feed the city operate in such design??
    Like, how does maccas or a big pub or the asian food court get its tons of fresh produce back and forward in such a city.

    Jo

  9. #9
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Thats a great ideal.
    How do the goods and services that feed the city operate in such design??
    Like, how does maccas or a big pub or the asian food court get its tons of fresh produce back and forward in such a city.

    Jo
    Obviously the "great electric truck company" will save the day and create a fleet of electric trucks. Then they'll come up with all these stories about how trams/light rail that many Euro cities have installed in the past 10 years are bad for public transport because if one breaks down.....

    Oh, hang on.... dejavu
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    They will make exceptions for delivery vehicles even if they pollute more.
    The pubs’ emergency deliveries of beer kegs will get police escorts.
    2003 C5 2.0i AL4 205,000 km 76372389

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    Clogzz,

    Mate, for a while I was becoming a little worried - but if the police will ensure pub beer keg deliveries then I can relax.

    Onya,

    Fento

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    and wont everyone be cheering when 5 years later, cars older than 10yrs old are banned, and 4 seater cars for those without children, then anything with a petrol motor, and later, anything old at all anywhere will be mandatorily crushed.

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    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    The first fleet purchases now being made are delivery vehicles. The centre of Paris has restricted large trucks for many years. They introduced a 'blue zone' that limited the maximum size of truck to just less than the H van footprint. CitroŽn responded with a "blue"version of the van with narrower fenders that fitted. Each time I drive in I have the problem of where to park because officially my van cannot be parked on the road in inner Paris and the off road or multistorey car parks won't handle the height. Most pub and restaurant deliveries are done between midnight and 6 am in trucks under two tonnes.
    My local National Inter Rental outlet offers electric vans by the day or hour.
    Someone is going to be surprised by the electric vehicles when they leave him for dead at the traffic lights. The electric motors produce max torque right from zero revs and so they can leave behind petrol or diesel vehicles up to 50kph, if the drivers want to be wasteful. Then that is not the point of urban transport, the idea is to get around town as safely and cheaply as possible with the minimum pollution.
    The Nissan Leaf has won the European Car of the Year award for 2011 (its a Renault, sort of)
    The Tesla Roadster gets to 100kph in 3.7 secs (not that this is what most electric cars are all about).
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    Someone is going to be surprised by the electric vehicles when they leave him for dead at the traffic lights. The electric motors produce max torque right from zero revs and so they can leave behind petrol or diesel vehicles up to 50kph, if the drivers want to be wasteful. Then that is not the point of urban transport, the idea is to get around town as safely and cheaply as possible with the minimum pollution.
    The Nissan Leaf has won the European Car of the Year award for 2011 (its a Renault, sort of)
    The Tesla Roadster gets to 100kph in 3.7 secs (not that this is what most electric cars are all about).
    Not me ... electric motors are great....... It's such a shame they must rely on batteries ..... that go flat ... and are heavy ..... not to mention get charged by brown coal power stations (out here anyway). They might work in the middle of paris or sydney (where traffic is mostly stationary), but there a joke in most other places.

    Just think how much power is going to pulled from the battery packs trying to run for example an air-conditioner or heater in very hot/very cold climates. Just getting stuck in traffic not moving for 20minutes could leave you stranded and out of battery charge

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  15. #15
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    shane that is true now, but that will all change over time, for sure, as charge storage technology advances. the only thing is that once road safety authoritarians realise exactly how fast electric vehicles can accelerate, and hoons are doing 0-100 in 4 seconds, in their Nissan Leafs, electric cars will be mandatorily fitted with acceleration governors. i give that 10 years at the absolute max.

    even i will say that it may not be a bad idea. i can see some really serious rear end accidents in traffic when the foot goes on the wrong pedal!
    Last edited by alexander; 24th December 2010 at 11:10 AM.

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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    , and later, anything old at all anywhere will be mandatorily crushed.
    That doesn't sound promising. I've seen Logan's Run (?).



    Mike.
    Started out with nothing, still got most of it left.

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    more sensibly, i read at work overnight that a French company is selling a parking spot detection system to several french cities. the sensors can detect the location of empty spots, and make the information available to motorists via cell phones. apparently the company also developed software for identifying appropriate equipment landing sites for some mission to Venus.

    i meant to copy the story in here but, alas, was sidetracked...
    Last edited by alexander; 24th December 2010 at 11:36 AM.

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    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    Tuesday is Soylent Green day.
    2001 was a bust, but 2022 is still to come. Give it a chance.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    They might work in the middle of paris or sydney (where traffic is mostly stationary), but there a joke in most other places.


    seeya,
    Shane L.
    That is where most Australians live and drive - in five cities. The car makers and the legislators are trying to deliver transport that makes congested cities more tolerable. Those people who live in low density or rural areas and those that travel inter city face different issues. They will be tied to petroleum products for much longer and will eventually face relocation or alternative transport decisions as the oil gets too pricey.

    The volume car makers, including those of French origin, are focused on their growth markets - the 2 billion plus who live in China and India; In both countries the wealth creation that allows first time car purchase is associated with urban industrialisation. The makers have to offer personal transport to people living in overcrowded cities with poor infrastructure. The outcome is small cheap citadines which leaves the traditional Aussie size of car as a minority cult. Although China is taking it seriously, the short term result is that they are living with atmospheric pollution that we now find unacceptable. It won't be long before they make the same decisions and go back to two wheels and forward to electric propulsion (and the combination).
    Last edited by gerry freed; 24th December 2010 at 06:48 PM.
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Not me ... electric motors are great....... It's such a shame they must rely on batteries ..... that go flat ... and are heavy ..... not to mention get charged by brown coal power stations (out here anyway). They might work in the middle of paris or sydney (where traffic is mostly stationary), but there a joke in most other places.

    Just think how much power is going to pulled from the battery packs trying to run for example an air-conditioner or heater in very hot/very cold climates. Just getting stuck in traffic not moving for 20minutes could leave you stranded and out of battery charge

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I play with radio controlled cars (a bit more than your average person, I admit). In my time I have seen a change from Nicd batteries (rechargeable) to Nimh which basically increased the power available and run time by about 100%, then to Lipo batteries which again increased the power by about 100%, but also brought the weight down so much that I have to strap lead to my chassis just so I make the minimum weight required in an official race. A Lipo battery is about half the weight of the Nimh, and the power (capacity) is more than twice. Power delivery is also a lot more abrupt (higher currents available instantly). At the moment, the hobby is looking at Li-ion batteries (used in the Nissan Leaf) and LiFe are on the horizon. If a niche hobby has access to this technology, then I am sure, the car industry would be a lot more advanced.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Of course, you are right.The latest battery technology uses various methods of doping the surface of lithium electrodes. Lithium is the lightest metal in the table of elements.
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    Default French cities to ban cars...

    Whenever I hear that authorities are thinking of banning 4x4's and S.U.V.'S. , I think of all the small reasonably fuel efficient 4x4's, such as Mazda 323, Nissan Pulsar, Daihatsu Terios, Subaru Impreza, etc. These are all available in 4 wheel drive.
    And what is an SUV? Some say a Subaru Outback is a SUV! Surely most of the 7 seaters (people movers, often carrying one or two people), use a lot more fuel than the above examples. AND then there's the V8's. they range from 2.5litres to HUGE litres, and include Ford, GM, BMW and Mercs. If they ban all of the above, there wont be much left.
    Where they gonna draw the line?

    Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyalpine View Post
    Whenever I hear that authorities are thinking of banning 4x4's and S.U.V.'S. , I think of all the small reasonably fuel efficient 4x4's, such as Mazda 323, Nissan Pulsar, Daihatsu Terios, Subaru Impreza, etc. These are all available in 4 wheel drive.
    And what is an SUV? Some say a Subaru Outback is a SUV! Surely most of the 7 seaters (people movers, often carrying one or two people), use a lot more fuel than the above examples. AND then there's the V8's. they range from 2.5litres to HUGE litres, and include Ford, GM, BMW and Mercs. If they ban all of the above, there wont be much left.
    Where they gonna draw the line?

    Henry
    Most likely with a similar logic they use re turbo engined cars and who is allowed to drive one; or with the cc limit on motor bikes Odds on if we have the same luddite d'head politicians (or are they getting incompetent advice?) as we have now

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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyalpine View Post
    Whenever I hear that authorities are thinking of banning 4x4's and S.U.V.'S. , I think of all the small reasonably fuel efficient 4x4's, such as Mazda 323, Nissan Pulsar, Daihatsu Terios, Subaru Impreza, etc. These are all available in 4 wheel drive.
    And what is an SUV? Some say a Subaru Outback is a SUV! Surely most of the 7 seaters (people movers, often carrying one or two people), use a lot more fuel than the above examples. AND then there's the V8's. they range from 2.5litres to HUGE litres, and include Ford, GM, BMW and Mercs. If they ban all of the above, there wont be much left.
    Where they gonna draw the line?

    Henry
    That is what the public debate is about. Another issue is the expansion of two wheeled traffic in Paris and the high accident rate to riders. There is another discussion about the banning in the cities of vehicles which are excessively dangerous in collisions with riders and pedestrians.
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